[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Good evening and welcome to tonight's meeting of the Medford Community Development Board. I'll call the meeting to order. Let's begin with some invocatory procedure matters. This hearing of the Medford Community Development Board is being conducted via remote means. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings as provided for in Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2023. A reminder that anyone who would like to listen to or view this meeting while in progress You may do so by accessing the link that was included on the meeting agenda posted on the City of Medford's website. If, despite our best efforts, we are not able to provide real-time access, we will post a recording of this meeting on the City's website as soon as possible. A reminder that given the remote nature of this meeting, tonight all votes from the Board will be made by roll call. Please know that the project materials for all projects before the Board can be viewed on the City's website at medfordma.org, and you can click on current City Board filings. You can also find the link in the chat. I will do roll call attendance. Vice Chair Emily Hederman. Present. Annie Strain. Present. Ari Fishman. Present. Ben Lavalle. Peter Kiles.
[Peter Calves]: Present.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And myself, Jackie McPherson. Daniel, can you introduce any staff on the call?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Sorry, Jackie, this is Ben. I was having a technical issue planning the mute button in presence as well.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you. Yes, I should have verbally said that I acknowledge when I saw you. Yes.
[Danielle Evans]: Tonight, representing the cities, myself, Danielle Evans, senior planner in the Office of Planning, Development and Sustainability, along with Alicia Hunt, who is the director of PDS.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you, so we will go to the first item on our agenda, which is a public hearing for 200 Mystic Ave, special permit to establish a motor vehicle watch. This was open and continued without discussion at the last meeting. I will ask the applicant to present, and I believe Attorney Adam Dash is presenting. Attorney Dash, you may take the floor.
[Dash]: good evening i'm sure thank you members of the board staff uh... weekend also with me tonight i i'm attorney adam dash forty eight grove street in somerville representing uh... the applicant owner new york capital investment group l l c which owns and operates the prestige car wash brand with us are near dory and ronan drury from uh... where the applicant owner from the company as well as helene shubha from shubha engineering group he receives the project engineer Do I have the ability to share my screen? I do not, if someone could give me that permission. I do have some slides. This is an application for a used special permit to establish a motor vehicle car wash in an enclosed structure at 200 Mystic Avenue, which is in the C2 zoning district and was last used as a motor freight terminal. All right, great. Thank you. All right, you should be able to see my screen now. Yes. Great. So, just to orient you, this slide shows you the C2 is the red that you're showing, that we're showing here. The property is located between Billings Avenue and Boeing Avenue, which is here, and is sandwiched between Mystic Avenue and 93, so front's on Mystic and back's on to the 93 area, so you're talking about basically right there. Here you can see the exterior of the existing building, which is going to be demolished as part of the proposal. As you can see, the site is also pretty much entirely paved. This is not an attractive site at the present. The applicant purchased the property to build a new car wash. You can see here some additional images of the existing building, the one that has the M&S Express sign on it, which is the motor vehicle terminal. You can see the curb cut in the driveway to the right of the existing building. So what we've got here, let me enlarge this a bit. I just want to show you the context that we're dealing with. So this, to provide some context, you can see in the middle here, this is the 200 Mystic Avenue property on the street view photo. And you can see the string of single-story commercial buildings along Mystic Avenue. All of these have Route 93 in the rear. To the right of us is of the building. You can see this is an existing roofing company. To the left over here, you can see this is an existing auto body shop, and again 93 is behind these. These slides are going to show the street in both directions around 200 Mystic. 200 Mystic is the building here, this is the roofing company here, behind here is the Autobody shops, you can sort of get a series of the context here. So you can see the streets almost exclusively made up of single-story commercial buildings, many of which are for various automotive uses. And you can also see how wide Mystic Ave here, which I believe the survey says is 99 feet wide. This is looking in the other direction. Again, here now on the left is 200 Mystic Ave. This is the autobody shop. Down here is the roofing company. You can see here the snap-on tools parked here and all this other automotive activity going on in this area and all the single-story buildings. So this is again showing the property. Okay, let me get this back to the correct size. All right, so this is the plan showing the existing condition of the property, which is outlined here in the dark. This is a 25,220 square foot lot, which is pretty large. Again, 93 to the right, Mystic Avenue here to the left. And this shows also the, the erosion and sediment control. This is the erosion sediment control plan. Hi, Mr. Shubham is here too. If you want to get into details, I won't go into it right at the moment. This shows again, so this is showing the proposed site plan with a 3900 square foot building here in the smaller rectangle in the middle. You've got 900 square feet of landscaping on the site where there currently is none. Due to the configuration of the lot here, the building is turned on the side like this so that it reduces its visibility along Mystic Avenue of the use and it also prevents stacking of cars on the street because you can see they can come in and circle around and through. So, cars can easily move around the site without queuing on Domestic Avenue with the building in this configuration. Big cars will enter and exit the site to the right side of the building, as the motor vehicle, motor freight use did. And I showed you the, look, this is basically the same location as the current entrance for the existing building. So this is... All right, so this is the landscaping plan, which is showing all native plantings. There are three trees proposed, one here, one here, one here, so two along the street, and then one right here before all the parking spaces. I should note that no landscaping is required here. However, this is what we're proposing. There are 14 parking spaces that are required. 15 are provided on site here along the building. One loading space is required and one loading space is being provided. Okay, so these are the grading drainage and utility plans with a lot more detail. Again, if the board has questions, we do have the engineer here to discuss them. And more of the same. And these are more some more details of the grading and the drainage. So, these are elevations and renderings we're going to show you of the proposed building, which is attractive and will be an improvement to the area. The proposed car wash use. this is the rendering should be approved as because a special permit should be granted a special permit for the use because it meets the requirements for one first off the project serves social economic or community needs because the existing industrial unattractive and non-conforming building will be replaced with a new good-looking dimensionally compliant building that will conform landscaping will be provided where there's currently none and will be all native plantings Medford residents will be given preferential hiring in these jobs. There will be a total of nine employees proposed for the site. And it is important for the city to have job opportunities for all skill levels and education levels. Two, the project addresses traffic flow, safety, parking and loading. There will be the required number of loading spaces. There will be one more parking space than required. There will be an increase, and Mr. Shubaugh can discuss this, and there is a report that he filed with our application where he states there's an increase of 14 trips per hour over the prior motor freight use. And these trips are by car, they're not by the trucks that the motor freight used to have. So we believe that the impact of the vehicles, even though there might be more vehicles, is actually going to be less because there are cars. We also note that a car wash is not a destination. It's like a gas station that it captures cars already passing by. So we don't believe this is a traffic generator. Applicant also, if you're familiar with Prestige Car Wash maybe, they sell memberships to its customers as an option. So customers on this side of town, instead of going to the other Prestige Car Wash, would instead go to this one. It's not necessarily a net increase in traffic, it's more of a redistribution, at least that's the thought. So this is the perfect location for car wash being sandwiched between Mystic Avenue and 93, we believe. Third, there are adequate utilities and public services in the area. Per Mr. Shubha's report, there will be no impact on the utility infrastructure. It will use the existing electric gas sewer system serving the premises. I would note that due to the system, 80% of the water on the site that's used for car washing is recycled. So the existing connections are adequate for this use. Fourth, the project is compatible with size, scale, design of other structures in the neighborhood. As shown, the project replaces the ugly non-conforming industrial building with no landscaping with a new conforming building with landscaping. The neighborhood is made up of single-story commercial buildings, many of which are auto-related and is adjacent to 93. While the city may be looking to change this zoning for Mystic Avenue, this stretch of Mystic Avenue is industrial and abuts the highway. These uses, honestly, are not going anywhere, and the proposed car wash structure is compliant, and the use is good for the long transition the city is discussing, which we fully support. However, at the time, as of today, the zoning has not changed, and this application must be judged under the current law, and the project meets the current requirements for the proposed conforming structure and conforming use. I would note this happened in Somerville when I was involved with that in 2019 when they changed their zoning, and up until the very night that the City Council changed the zoning, the boards were approving projects under the prior zoning that the new zoning would have banned. So, because the law is the law, until it's no longer the law. This is a vast improvement, what we're showing here on the existing situation. And there are actually limited uses, which would realistically be sandwiched between Mystic Avenue and 93 in this location. The car washing will be fully contained within the building. We'll meet the noise requirements. I would note being again sandwiched between mystic and ninety three. This is never going to be an exactly quiet site, but the applicant is proposing to screen the vacuum motors with offense and rigid foam installation and the tunnel of the property at the property. will at the property line will comply with the noise regulations. The staff report does reference applicants other locations being too noisy. I would note that at that location the vacuum motors are not screened and I don't know exactly how close at that other location the exit to the interior of the washing is but here it's 44 feet away from Mystic Avenue which is pretty far. So we believe that the that the noise will be compliant and certainly if there are ever any issues, that would be addressed because we have to be compliant and the client understands that. Fifth, impact on the natural environment. We'll convert the property to a conforming use and conforming structure. will reduce stormwater runoff with landscaping and collecting the roof runoff into an on-site infiltration system for groundwater discharge. The car wash will have a closed drainage system in compliance with Medford Stormwater Management Ordinance and the MATS DEP guidelines. And as I said before, through that system, 80% of the water used is recycled and reused for car washing. Prestige will use environmentally friendly biodegradable cleaning products. and a water reclamation system, which treats, cleans, and reuses the water, as I said, to reduce water usage. Exterior mechanical equipment will be enclosed with the fence and the installation, as I described. Lastly, the project complies with the city's comprehensive plan by creating good-paying jobs, having preferential hiring of Medford residents, providing jobs for different skill and education levels, revitalizing a decrepit site, Adding landscaping where there is none and using native plantings, adding a nice looking building, reducing traffic, improving stormwater runoff, allowing Medford residents to spend their money locally, beautifying the Mystic Avenue corridor in this location, which is made up of industrial and commercial buildings, backing onto 93. The applicant's narrative cited 11 sections of the Medford Comprehensive Plan which this project meets. I will not read them all now in the interest of time, but the structure, which needs no relief, and the use, which needs a special permit but the use is allowed, do comply with the Comprehensive Plan. The impact of the project is positive. It meets It meets the law as it stands today, and will fit in well with any future development on this portion of Mystic Avenue, which is a tough site for residential and a lot of other uses, and which will be commercial and industrial for a long time, even if the zoning does change. It will be, again, sandwiched between Mystic and 93 with all the noise that that brings, which does not disturb this use, obviously. Representatives from Prestige and the project engineer are here if the board has any specific questions about any of this. I just want to point out the staff report raises points about mass DOT approval and such. It's not needed for the special permit approval now. That'll come later. Also, despite what the staff report does say, the, however, applicant did provide a utility plan. I showed that a moment ago, and that was provided back on October 9th in response to questions. So we believe that the application does have everything there. And I do know that the landscaping plan you hadn't seen until just now, we didn't have it until now, because once we saw the staff report was requesting a landscape plan, we went and prioritized getting that. And then that staff report did ask how many trees, and the answer is free. So, in sum, the applicant asks that the special permit for motor vehicle car wash within an enclosed structure use be granted because all the elements of the special permit have been met. This project brings the current non-conforming situation into conformity with the Medford zoning ordinance and the Medford comprehensive plan as they are today, which is all that matters. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you, Attorney Dash. Before I open it up to the board, one of the things I want to go back to Attorney Dash's statement is that, yes, the law is the law, but I also want to remind the board and the public that this use is not by right. So I want the board to keep that in mind as we move forward. And one of the onus is on us to make sure that the adverse effects will not outweigh any benefits for that area, and it must meet all criteria as defined by the city's ordinances, and that includes performance standards. And with that, before I open it up to the board, I would ask that the city staff please, if you can summarize your findings for the board and for the public.
[Danielle Evans]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Attorney Dash did a good job of going through my points. I don't agree that it meets the special permit standards. Some of the differences are that we now have an adopted comprehensive plan, and that is criterion number six, that the proposal is compatibility with the purposes of the city's comprehensive plan. We do have draft zoning, and yes, we're not going by our draft zoning, but even if we didn't have it, ready yet which we'll be going to in a couple weeks. Comprehensive plan really outlines the goals for this quarter. We're moving away from automotive uses. We already changed all of the automotive uses or the majority of them to be special permits. We did that over a year ago. Although I should note this use has always been a special permit. So it has always been recognized as a use that should not be by right in this district, that there could be potential locations where it would be appropriate. For example, there is a revived car wash that the zoning board approved that is towards the rear and fronts right on Mystic Valley Parkway, so that is actually going, is a little bit further down Mystic Ave. So I can go through these points, so I don't believe, let's see, I'm working with one screen here. So to go through the special permit criteria, one, the social and economic community needs which are served by the proposal with this other car wash in the vicinity and Prestige operating another one on Middlesex Ave as well as in many other car washes in our abutting communities. I don't think that this is a need at this location. I don't, I think that would be, a difficult... criterion to justify being met. Traffic flow and safety, this use by its nature generates many vehicular trips. As Attorney Dash said, this isn't a destination, but it's actually the number of trips of cars coming to and from quite rapidly and in quick succession. That is an issue with keeping the quarter safe for bikes and pedestrians. I should mention someone did actually get hit by a car the other location in front so it can be very dangerous some of these properties like or some of these uses such as car washes and gas stations where cars are coming in and out quickly trying to just you know go on their way. So it is a use that really is important to have the correct sites for them within the zoning districts that they're allowed by right or by special permit. Regarding the adequacy of utilities and other public services, I did get some updated information upon request. So some of the issues, would be reviewed by the engineer upon a building permit or stormwater permit, but there's still some issues of whether there's, you know, the water access, if they're lead pipes, if they could, they'd have to be video camera to make sure that they can support the use, but those would all come later at the building permit stage. So that, the question of whether that is met is kind of up in the air, I'm not sure. Regarding whether the compatibility with the size, scale, and design of other structures in the neighborhood, admittedly, it's not the most attractive corridor. It's kind of a hodgepodge. But there's really nothing that would be compatible. I would say this building isn't compatible either then. It's kind of a hodgepodge, but it's not in line with the direction that we're trying to go with the comprehensive plan, as I previously mentioned in number six, which is pedestrian-oriented buildings, denser, activated ground floors, residences. That's what we're looking for. Impacts on the natural environment. Yes, it's a fully paved site. it's, anything would be an improvement, that's true. And I'm glad to see that there would be some trees included on this plan. And regarding the performance standards, the aesthetics of the building, it is oriented with the tunnel facing the street. The original plan sets that I had actually, I mean, the drawings must have been made for another another city or another town because it was oriented with the vacuums in the parking facing Mystic Ave, which isn't actually physically possible because it's a narrow, deep lot. So with the tunnel facing Mystic Ave, with the noise and even the signage wouldn't even be directed towards the street. So I would say that it doesn't meet that performance standard. In addition, the noise, the vacuums, they're deafening. They're so loud. I measured the sounds of them. And they're all going because they're free. They're included. So everybody runs the vacuums. It's very loud. So our recommendation is that this special permit, which is discretionary, and no one is entitled to a special permit, we're recommending that this be denied. And that's all I have.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you, Danielle. I'm actually going to open it up before I make my own comments I'm going to open it up for board questions or comments.
[Peter Calves]: I think at the moment although I would like to uh sorry go ahead okay gotcha I would like to point out uh Counter to Attorney Dash's statement that a car wash is not a destination, I must admit I've never kind of just been going about my daily chores and been like, I'm going to stop and get my car washed. Maybe that's just me, but.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes, Vice Chair Hagedorn? Oh, you're on mute.
[Emily Hedeman]: You know, we're four years into the pandemic and I still don't know how to do virtual meetings, so appreciate that. That heads up there, Chair McPherson. While I do sometimes pursue a car wash as a destination, I love getting my car washed. It is relaxing and a very serene and joyful experience for me that I treat myself to. I would have to agree with some of the points that were made by city staff. I think we've started to do some really dynamic work on Mystic Ave. We have some real people and activity-centric uses that have started to populate the corridor. And I just think we need to continue moving in that direction rather than maintain the former status quo of highly industrial automotive uses, which do still have a place in every community. But with the proximity to other car washes, whether they're Prestige or other providers, I think that, you know, this location may not be the highest and best use for this location, may not be a car wash at this time. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Adam Behrens?
[Adam Behrens]: This is more of a question, it might be for the city. But if the proposal is rejected, I just want to better understand whether we're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and what the timeline would be for a site if we did reject a proposal for that to then continue to be the existing condition for the foreseeable future. The answer could very well be. It's hard to tell.
[Sal Di Stefano]: Excuse me, Madam Chair, this is Sal DiStefano, Economic Development Director for the City of Medford. May I address that question?
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes, please.
[Sal Di Stefano]: Okay, thank you very much. As it's been mentioned, you know, we're reimagining Mystic Ave. The whole city is going through zoning changes. There's lots of positive things happening. My office has been busy fielding calls from developers looking to do mixed-use residential along Mystic Ave and the surrounding area and probably Part of that interest is bought by another major business that opened on Mystic Ave that's bringing a lot of people to the area and Great American Beer Hall. So, you know, so I guess looking at the current condition and say, okay, well, we're gonna put this car wash here and it's better than what's there now is, pretty short-sighted. I mean, I feel like, you know, Medford shouldn't accept crumbs. We're seeing a lot of interest in the request for proposal that the city issued for the city-owned lots in Medford Square around City Hall. And also, I have to say, you know, nine jobs that probably are not considered living wage jobs. It's not conducive to economic development. I work with companies regularly that are looking for staff that probably pay more. And there's a ladder of where you could go to middle or senior management. So I guess, you know, and, and, you know, with all disclosure, I'm a member of, of prestige. I have a subscription. Um, I like going to their car wash at Bedford. Um, so it's nothing against the gentlemen that are proposing or, um, their attorney. Um, it's just, you know, when we met with them, we said, you know, there are other things you can do here that, um, you know, are not a car wash that that the new zoning will allow. So, you know, with all due respect, we disagree on some of the opinions. But, you know, we do, you know, we do want positive things for the community. That's all for me. Thank you, Madam Chair.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yeah, I just wanted to myself touch on a couple of things that were said earlier. And one of them is the fact that it's not by right. And yes, it may be better than what's there now, but Sal's piece of final has highlighted perfectly. It's method doesn't shouldn't just accept something just because what's there could be better. It's not the highest, the best or the highest use. And myself have done a lot of work on the comprehensive plan and adopting the comprehensive plan as part of the community development board, I just think that Medford deserves, not that a car wash is not right, it's just not, to me, not right for that area. But I don't want to be the one to dictate that for the proponent going forward. I just know that there was so much work that has gone into making that Mystic Ave corridor or just getting a little bit more with mixed development and residential uses and so forth. And I just wanted to continue to go that way. So that's my stance. Peter Cowles.
[Peter Calves]: Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wanted to touch upon a couple of things that have been said. First of all, as Chair McPherson has said, and as Danielle Evans from the city has said, This is not a by right use. This is a special permit use. And a special permit, I mean, this is not a zoning regulation kind of thing where, well, if it checks all the technical boxes, we have to say yes. It just has to go here because it checks all those technical boxes. The special permit is a process put in place so that this board can review something to determine that it is in conformance with what the city wants to see in that site. And as people have said, with the highest and best use. And then the other thing I'd like to touch on is the concept of it being good enough for now. And that's something we had a similar proposal from Auto Glass Now over on Harvard Street, where they were going into an existing building, and that was a project that was approved along that kind of line. And that was a different situation where they were renovating an existing building, and there was not going to be any change to the site. And it was acknowledged at that time that it was unlikely that if, I mean, two or three or five years down the line, if they had come to this board with the same proposal in the same place, uh it would likely have not been approved but acknowledging that they were not going to make any changes to the site they were just going to occupy an existing building we did approve that but i don't think in my opinion that this meets quite the same standards thank you vice chairman um i'll pass it to ben because he hasn't said anything yet and then i can i can go after
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, just, I agree with everything that's been said, but just to sort of play devil's advocate here a little bit, the proposal is a significant improvement over the current situation. And while I am bought in to the long-term zoning overhaul, I believe we're gonna get into that a little bit later. And I do agree with the points about nine likely low-paying jobs and all the points that have been made. I also have, as somebody who commutes from Medford Square to Kendall Square almost daily, I have concerns about the traffic impacts. I know that Mr. Dash said that they would be accounted for but Prestige is a very popular car wash and so I would be concerned about traffic backing up onto Mystic Ave and what remediation would be done should that eventually begin to happen as I predict that it would. All that being said, a lot of what has been raised sort of against this proposal is based on plans that have been done and hypothetical things that can happen in the future. So I'm curious to know if there's actually been an analysis done on the alternatives and specifically the economic impact of the alternatives. I believe it was Sal from the city, so forgive me if I got that wrong. Are there alternatives that are on the table and viable that create more jobs or better paying jobs? I'd like to understand the impact on the city's revenues, potentially. impacts to tax collection from this proposal versus what's there today versus what some of the alternatives are. I just feel like a lot of the arguments against this are anchored in things that are yet to actually be considered. So I wanted to put that out there.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yeah, and I appreciate that. But one of the things I want to keep in mind is that a lot of that information was collected as part of the comprehensive plan that the board has adopted. It wasn't so much an economic feasibility study and what could be for tax increment or for raising tax there. But the comprehensive plan did capture a lot of that, the study that you're looking for, Ben.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Thanks. I'm new to this committee and I'll give it another look. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[Adam Hurtubise]: No, you're good. Go for it.
[Emily Hedeman]: I'll toss it over to Ari. They haven't spoken yet, so before you guys get too much in me.
[Ari Fishman]: Thank you, Emily. I think unsurprisingly, Sharing many of the opinions of the board. I think our responsibility when we're thinking of timeframes is not what is better. In 6 to 12 months, I think it is very clear that our responsibility is to be looking at in the like 5 to 10 year range as well. And I think that even if it is better than being dilapidated this year with the comprehensive plan and revitalization that we heard from the director that there is active interest. And from what we've seen on this board, there is that growing interest. I think it would be very short-sighted of us to allow a kind of very permanent use. This is, major building and kind of major infrastructure that would be a huge opportunity cost. We want something pedestrian friendly and human friendly in that space. That's not just me speaking personally, that's something that the city has adopted through a substantial process and something that can play more of a multifaceted role to benefit more people in the community. So at this point, that's I'm leaning against it. And those are my reasons why. And I appreciate hearing everyone's opinions and perspectives. And I do not take turning down an application lightly. I certainly agree with members of the board who have spoken about the importance of economic development and businesses in our community. I agree, I'm thrilled that we keep getting all these businesses wanting to create jobs and excitement. I just think that these are not many jobs and not the type of excitement we want.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: You ready, Vice Chairman? I see Annie's hand, sorry. This is a public hearing, so I want to get to that. So that's why I was giving you a chance to jump in.
[Emily Hedeman]: I'll jump in. So I think Peter brought up a great point about the previous applicant. That use was also, you know, that was also a rental of the space. Attorney Dash, is the applicant also the landowner in this situation?
[Dash]: Yes, they purchased the lot to do a car wash. That's all they do.
[Emily Hedeman]: Yeah, yeah. They do it very well. So with the other situation, there was a lease sign, and the owner themselves indicated that they were excited about future development opportunities outside of an auto glass repair shop. So I think that was another differentiator there. This is more of a comment or a challenge for the applicant. you know, maybe there's a way that a car wash model could be integrated into a really dynamic, you know, urban mixed use facility. This could be a really fun opportunity for you all to get very creative. You know, if car washes are something you do well, then, you know, maybe it's something that you can do well and different here in Medford. So I'd encourage you to think about the feedback we're giving and maybe that fits into you know, a future model for car washes that could be deployed, you know, broader than just, you know, our fair city of Medford. So those are my two comments. Thank you, Chair.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Annie?
[Ayni Strang]: Sorry about that. Very quickly, I just want to reflect on my view of McGrath Highway in Cambridge, which 20 years ago was completely carved out as a commercial environment. And through city planning, that entire corridor had evolved into mixed-use apartments with stores underneath and little parks and just improved quality of life for people who live on the side streets that lead into the main corridor. I really think it's very important to consider that Mystic Avenue would be a wonderful place to have apartments and small shops and have it as a neighborhood like we have other neighborhoods in Medford. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you very much. I'm gonna open it up for public comment, but my final comment on this, and then I'll open it up for final comment, is that I have not been convinced that there are, that the actual benefits have outweighed the adverse effects, especially when it comes to transportation and infrastructure for accommodating the car wash in that area. So I am leading towards not approving it for those reasons alone. And so I will open it up to the public. I will now open up the public comment period. Those who wish to provide comments can use the raise hand feature or message Daniel in the comments. You can also send an email to OCD at myfriend-ma.org. Before providing your comments, please state your name and address for the record. A reminder to all meeting participants to please refrain from using the chat function to provide comments, as it is not part of the public record. However, if a participant is having audio or other technical difficulties, this may be entered into the chat or let myself. and staff. Danielle, can you please manage the public comment queue and read any previously sent emails or letters?
[Danielle Evans]: Madam Chair, I do not see any hands raised. Participating in Zoom, I can check. that email or inbox. I didn't receive any emails prior to the meeting. We did get a few calls, you know, asking if this was going to be heard, but no one submitted written comments. Alicia, if you get to the inbox before I do.
[Alicia Hunt]: There's nothing in the email today. They're only newsletters in the email box from today.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: I will close the public comment period for this meeting. And again, just reiterating that I have not seen proof that the infrastructure can accommodate commercial use such as a car wash, especially with engineering. I know that you said that it's a possibility, and I know that the proponent has submitted utility plans and so forth, but the stormwater is a huge issue, as well as the transportation circulation there. And although it's currently a fright, uh attorney dash said that it's not a destination site, but as someone has already mentioned, uh, you usually do Writing your calendar. I'm going to get a car wash today or something like that. And usually people will um plan out. Well, that's how I do it I plan out a day when i'm going to go to a car wash. So it usually winds up being a destination at some point. Um So when you're saying that i'm going to open it up to the board to do to deliberate at this time
[Dash]: Madam Chair, at some point, could our team respond to some of this?
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes, of course.
[Dash]: I don't know if this is the appropriate moment.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: No, you may. Okay.
[Dash]: I'm going to let Mr. Shubha address the infrastructure piece. He's more qualified than I am as the engineer. I would note, I said people don't make a special trip. they they don't drive by your right and go i need a car wash well i guess some people do but it's more or less they're driving by anyway uh... and that's when they're going to get a car wash it's not like they're going to drive from will burn income down to this particular car wash it doesn't generate traffic it's traffic that's already there Um, I know the applicants in a bit of a hard place here because they already bought the property to do a car wash Understanding extends a special permit. I get that However, I would note that a special permit to be denied would need to be denied using the current special permit criteria Not the proposed uses or better uses. It's this use And these criteria I know danielle and danielle has explained her position on it. We've explained our position on it We respect each other disagree, but respect each other. I get it. Um The tunnel facing the street is 44 feet back. I don't think that's a massive encroachment on the pedestrian way. The building is set way, way back with the trees and the landscaping up against the street there. So it is actually a nicer pedestrian experience, granted on this very small stretch with this whole wasteland of industrial around it. Hal, can you explain, I guess, the utility part that the chair talked about, the infrastructure and accommodating it and traffic impacts and such? You're muted, Hal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good evening, Madam Chair. For the record, my name is Hal Chuba. I'm a consulting engineer in Dartmouth and I am the applicant's engineer. I can tell you I've been working with the applicants for over 15 years. We've designed over 30 car washes through the Boston metropolitan areas, and lots that are smaller than this, where we had more challenges in the city of Boston or the city of Malden or in Quincy and traffic is not going to be an issue. Car washes are not traffic destinations and when I mean traffic destination, people are not driving from nearby cities to go wash their cars. They're washing their cars because either they live next to the facility or they work next to the facility and they go by it every day. And it's not me who's saying this, we have an ITE, according to the ITE trip generation from the traffic engineers, the publications, it tells you that a gas station, car wash, convenience store, coffee shops are not traffic destinations. So again, you know, and I we looked at this and we to be more conservative, actually, we took data from the applicants, other car washes, and we doubled we get I gave you more conservative numbers. And I demonstrated that there's going to be no impact to the to the street capacity or the level of service on the site. As far as the The location of the sighting, you can see from the shape of the lot. The lot has a small frontage on Mystic, but although it's deep and the way we sighted the car wash, we can accommodate easily over 22 cars before you get to the street, so by no means there'll be any impacts to the street. Again, you know, I'm just going through the technical or the engineering. I understand it's not in line of your vision, what you like to see in the area, but as far as the infrastructure or the utilities. The current location is a commercial site. It has the water connection, it has the sewer connection. I heard that the water service is a lead pipe By all means, we go through this with every city. We change it to copper, whatever they use now. We need to upgrade the site. We need to bring everything up to code, up to whether it's stormwater or utilities. We do have the capacity. We don't require a lot of water usage because we do We have a recycling system on site that recycle 80% of the water that we use in the car wash. Same thing with the sewer. Whatever we use, we recycle. A little over goes to the sewer system, so it's not going to be a tax on your treatment plants or any impact. As far as the stormwater, I was surprised, really, to see that the staff report said there's nothing about stormwater. And I thought stormwater was the biggest improvement we offered to this site. Currently, there are no stormwater collection system on site. All the water sheet flows to a catch basin and then it's direct discharge to the municipal system with no treatment. With this With our design, we propose to collect all the water from the site by a closed drainage system to treat it and then send it to an infiltration system to hold the first one inch of runoff on site in compliance with Massachusetts DEP standards and Medford stormwater management. We had provided a full grading and drainage plan with details on the system that we propose to use with details. And I'm not sure if it made it to the city engineer's office or not, but I see in the report that there was a mentioning of no utilities or stormwater on site. Again, we think because of the nature of the setting currently, and again, I understand what's your vision for the future. The facility is going to be sandwiched or surrounded by similar uses, and it's an improvement to what's there now. I can tell you that we meet all the criteria for a special permit based on the current zoning. I'm not going to the future, what could be there. And, you know, I'm not sure if the site is a perfect fit or suitable for residential being so close to 93, but again, that's not for me to make the call. Again, those are my comments. And if I can answer any questions, I'll be glad to. Thank you.
[Dash]: Thank you, Hal. I don't know what else to say. I mean, I gather the tenor of the board. We understand. I get it. However, as I said, this isn't a bad situation. It's not a bad use. It's not an ugly thing that we're doing. And it's a very tough site. I don't know, sandwiched between 93 and Mystic Avenue. Maybe someday someone's going to redevelop this whole site. But you saw the photographs. It's a lot. it's going to be a long time. And this is a use that people, if residential ever does come in, it's something that could serve the residential uses. We've pulled a building back, we've greened up the street front to make it more of a pleasant environment. We're going to be this little island in the middle of all this. commercial wasteland around it for probably a very long time despite the zoning. So I think that's great that Sal says that there's people, you know, sniffing around. That's wonderful. But that's a lot down in that area. Mystic Avenue is long and there are parts of Mystic Avenue that I understand that this is not that part of Mystic Avenue. This is probably the grittiest, most industrial piece of it. I think we all hear you. I don't know what else to say. I see Danielle and Alisha have their hands up, so I'll stop talking.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you, Attorney Dash. Director Hahn?
[Alicia Hunt]: Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm Alicia Hunt, director of planning, development and sustainability for the city. I thought that it was just helpful for me to share a few brief thoughts. I think that it's in line with what I'm already hearing. But when I look at the social, economic and community needs that are served by this proposal, nine jobs are not a lot. We haven't seen anything to show that there are high paying jobs. In fact, it's unlikely that they would be living wage jobs. And the social bringing to this, the traffic flow and safety. One of the things that we haven't really addressed is the fact that we do get a lot of bicycles on this corridor and we think we'll be getting more bicycles. We would like to make this a walkable, bikeable neighborhood. And it's one thing to say that these vehicles are driving by anyhow, But to have the pulling in and out of this lot 200 vehicles a day or more, I think we saw some numbers that were higher than that, is a very high number to be making these turns. And so I'm concerned about pedestrian and bicycle safety. And then just simply the with the city's comprehensive plan. And I will note that we have had that this parcel sold very quickly. We were trying to get a hold of the owner as soon as we realized it was for sale and it had already been sold. And we do believe that it would not be hard for this property owner to wait probably I'm going to say six weeks and sell it at a much higher value because the zoning will allow a much greater, greater, and I can't promise, right? I can't predict, but the new zoning has actually been referred from the city council already to the CD board for a public hearing. So I do think that that will increase the value of this lot, and this may be an easy moneymaker for this property owner. Although I can't promise that, but it seems likely to me. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Daniel Evans.
[Danielle Evans]: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the Mystic Avenue corridor district zoning will be before you on the 20th, actually. Once that passes, the development potential for this site will be drastically increased. So they could just flip this property and come out ahead. I don't think that that needs to be a concern. I just wanted to reiterate that it's the exiting and entering of the site, the curb cuts repeatedly in quick succession, because that's how car washes are. That's the concern, not necessarily trips or more cars going down the street. It's the coming in and out that's the concern. And last minute, oh, there's a car wash. Turn in real quick. And then that's when you hit somebody. And as I said before, it has happened recently at Middlesex Ave. There's a video. It's quite horrifying. And also, The idea that we shouldn't develop anything because of proximity to 93 is an incredibly pessimistic view. Is it the fault of our city that the federal government decided to clear out neighborhoods cut right through the fells and put in a highway? And so now because we have a highway that brings millions of commuters through, that now not only do we have that, incredible burden. Now we can't build near it and shouldn't even try or bother. And it's actually pretty offensive that we shouldn't do anything because 93 is right there. I would like to see it go away someday. So I just don't think that that's an argument that would ever sway me.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Thank you. And I just want to reiterate that it wasn't, although yes, I definitely would rather see a higher and better use there with all the work that has gone in with the planning staff and the community development board to adopt a comprehensive plan. The first thing that I've noticed, that I've noted was that I was more concerned with transportation and the inadequate utilities I stand for for the stormwater. Because we have not rectified that and shaken that out, even if you have to take that away, it goes back to the safety of transportation for myself. And Daniel, as I restated, I didn't wanna use that, but there is a car wash on Middlesex Avenue, and I'm not saying it had anything to do with that, but just the way that the cars were in and out of there, I can't imagine that also happening on Mystic Ave with the same flow. So that's where I'm coming from. And with that being said, I will open it up again for board deliberation. If there's any other questions or I'll even ask for a motion to approve or deny the special permit application at this point.
[Dash]: I'm not sure if I asked my client quickly, normally I would lean over if I were in the room, but that's obviously not been an option for a few years, whether or not they wanted to talk about this further with a continuance or whether they wanted to pursue board vote on a near Ronan. I hate to do this sort of in an open meeting, but I kind of have no choice unless you want to email me on this.
[SPEAKER_07]: I would like to say something. Ronan, can you hear me?
[Dash]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, my name is Ronen Droric and I'm one of the owners of Prestige Cowash. So just to go to a few items that, you know, the boys were talking about. So they said nine job is not enough or it's not a lot, but if you build apartment building, there will be zero job. That's number one. Number two is the average cowash operator that worked for us make about $75,000. A manager could make well over $100,000. So it's well paying jobs. Um, the noise is absolutely no issue because the way we design it, we take everything into consideration. The cars will exit towards 93. So all the blowers will be towards 93. So obviously 93 will be much louder than the blowers. So you will only see the cars entering when you're on mystic Avenue. So that really kind of pretty much answer that question. Uh, and, uh, What the other thing is that it could take over 10 years to, I mean, we did a lot of development over the years for the last 30 years. It could be over 10 years before anything get developed in that area. I did talk to a few people on the, on mystic Avenue and none of them are interested to sell. Even if you give him 10 million, you can go to the body shop next door and offer him $10 million. He's not going to sell his business and he just doesn't want to sell. You can go to the, uh, the one on the right of us, which is the, uh, the shingle place, you know, the roofing place, they're not selling the place. So here is three buildings between us that not going to sell and you can keep going on and on and on. So you could change the zoning, but if the people that own it run a business out of it and they have no place to go, they will not participate. Even if you give them $10 million, it will just not do it. So as of right now, the current zoning is allowed us to do what we applied to do. We've been in this business for over 20 years. We've been developing over 30 years. We've built apartments, we've built townhouses, we've built houses, we've developed a gas station, car washes, commercial, residential. So we are very familiar with the development. We're very familiar with the value of property. But what happened here right now between everything that you say, it's actually not true. Because I did sue in the past other towns for not letting us open locations. And I can tell you that we always win. And the reason that we win is because a special permit was meant to be given. If you look at the definition, and you can go and ask any lawyer or judge, It's meant to be given with conditions. So we meet all the zoning criteria. We actually meet all the setbacks. We don't need any variance. So basically, the only jurisdiction that you have on us is just to give us conditions that you're not happy with. And it's hours of operation. or any traffic if you see any, but you really cannot, I mean, you can deny it, but no judge would actually side with you, just so you know. So, I mean, you can deny the meeting tonight and not vote for it. Legally, we are allowed to do it. A special permit was meant to be given with conditions. It's not meant to be denied. If it was meant to be denied, you would just not be allowed to do it on the zoning chart. It would just be not allowed. It's allowed by special permit. And we meet every criteria on that. on the zoning book. And we made everything, if it's noise, if it's traffic, if it's the height, if it's the setback, if it's the traffic circulation, if it's the noise, anything that, you know, you can throw at us. We actually put a lot of thought, a lot of money and a lot of engineering into it. And we design it in a way that this will not interrupt with any of the traffic on Mystic Avenue. The noise will be facing excuse me, route 93. And like I said, the building on the left, the building on the right are going nowhere. There's three or four more buildings that I talked to. Nobody's interested to do anything there. So it's not that it's going to stay the way it is. But this could take 10, 15, 20 years before, as I always said, at one point, which happened to us, owners die. If the guy is 70 or 80 years old, he's dying. Then his kids basically will sell the property. But we don't have the time to wait for that. That's the business we run in, and that's what we want to do with the property.
[Dash]: Ronan, without getting into all of that, I mean, would you like the board to vote tonight, or do you want to ask the continuance to discuss?
[SPEAKER_07]: No, no. I want them to vote. OK.
[Dash]: Thank you. That was my question.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And with that said, to reiterate, a special permit is not by right.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it can be meant to be it's meant to be given with condition. Just that's all I'm saying. It's not by right. You're absolutely right. It's meant to be given with conditions.
[Emily Hedeman]: You know, the meeting and allow you guys by chair. Thank you.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: I'm asking for a motion to approve or deny the special permit application.
[Ari Fishman]: I would like to hear from Danielle, who had her hand raised before the motion.
[Danielle Evans]: Madam Chair, may I? Yes. I just wanted to counter the assertion that special permits are meant to be given, but with conditions. I think he's confusing that with site plan review, which are by right uses. And then you condition away any detrimental impacts. That's not the case with a special permit. They are completely discretionary. They are for uses that could be allowed in a zoning district under various circumstances if it meets the criteria. Fronting on Mystic Ave in a specific location we find is not appropriate and does not meet the criteria for issuing a special permit if it was off of If it was a different parcel, it possibly could be appropriate. But this particular lot, we don't find it to meet the criterion. And a special permit is not meant to be granted in just this condition. That is actually false.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's not on your zoning board. It doesn't say on your zoning board.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: For the record, I cannot hear Mr. Jory. Did someone mute him or did he mute himself?
[SPEAKER_07]: Somebody must. Somebody's keep muting me.
[Ari Fishman]: While it was not me muting him, I will note that speakers are supposed to be recognized by Madam Chair before speaking.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes, Mr. Jory, you can definitely go ahead and speak, but there's no one on our end muting you.
[SPEAKER_07]: I keep pressing unmute, but it's not muting me right now. So I can, can you hear me?
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes, we can hear you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay. So I can tell you that, you know, again, we did go to court over the years, it's not, it's not the first time, you know. And I can tell you that every time we went to court over anything like that, we always win, because it's allowed by special permit. And the special permit was meant to be given with condition scrub it up. The one that just got approved off of Mr. cab. was grandfathered in. He's not in the right zone. You know, he, our place is in the right zone. So that location is, if anything, he's in the wrong place and should not be there. Our location is allowed by special permit and should be allowed to go forward. You're just pretty much not allowing us to go forward because you have different vision. So you're not, you're denying my permit because you have a vision, not because there is anything else. It's just because of your vision. And if nothing is going to change on that road for the next 20 years, where is the vision? It's just your vision. You cannot control Mystic Ave. You can't tomorrow say, okay, I'm going to go and I can close all those businesses and we're going to build apartments. If nobody's going to sell and nobody's going to develop it, it's going to stay the same thing for the next 20 years. So your vision really is just a vision. It cannot be
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Developed unless somebody starts selling and somebody start building Or changing the status quo and saying that I will actually I cannot give the motion, but I will ask for who is ready to deny uh Can we go with that? Does it isn't is anyone going to deny or Are there any hands for that? Yes Okay, so I am going to do a roll call for denying the special motion. I'm going to do a roll call for denying them.
[Alicia Hunt]: If someone can actually call on Emily to make a motion. Sorry.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Yes.
[Emily Hedeman]: Based on all the theoreticals we've been talking about tonight between zoning lawsuits death, as well as the decorum, I'm going to call for a denial of this special permit.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And I'm going to do, is there a second motion?
[Peter Calves]: I'll second.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Roll call. Vice Chair Emily Hedeman? Aye for denial. Annie String? Aye for denial. Ari Fishman? Aye for denial. Ben Lavalle?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Are you aye for denial or for approval?
[Adam Hurtubise]: I for denial.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Peter cows.
[Peter Calves]: I for denial.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Adam Barons.
[Adam Behrens]: I for denial.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Myself, Jackie McPherson is an eye for denial. The special permit for 200 mystic app has been denied for this evening's meeting.
[Dash]: Thank you for your consideration and have a good evening.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Have a great evening. Thank you.
[Emily Hedeman]: Thank you, Attorney Dash.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Second item on meeting for tonight is approval of minutes from 821.14. Are there any comments or suggested edits for the 821.24 draft minutes? If not, then I would ask for a motion to approve the minutes.
[Ayni Strang]: I make a motion to approve the minutes. A second motion?
[Emily Hedeman]: I'll second that. Adam's got it.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And a roll call. Vice Chair Emily Hedeman? Aye. Annie String? Aye. Ari Fishman? Aye. Ben Lavalle?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Peter Cowles?
[Adam Behrens]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Adam Behrens?
[Adam Behrens]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And myself, Jackie McPherson, I'm aye. And number three, I want to ask the planning staff to provide a status update for the zoning updates.
[Alicia Hunt]: Madam Chair, so in addition to what we've already commented on, so Planner Evans is in the process of getting the zoning for Mystic Ave formally scheduled and advertised to be for the public hearing open on November 20th. If you need one second, I just want to click on my notes to give you. So we've been working with the council and the council president and vice president and the planning consultants to do a plan for the rest of the year. And we're still working out the nitty gritty of the plan. but it is our intention that the public hearings for Mr. Gav will occur on November 20th and then December 3rd at city council. If this board hears it in one meeting, if this board chooses to take two meetings, they would open on December 3rd and then continue waiting for your comments on December 17th. We're doing it that way just so that they don't have scheduled it for December 17th, and they could have heard it earlier. And now they've pushed it to the last meeting of the new year of the year. So that gives them the opportunity to potentially hear both times. We are also working through the nitty gritty of a green score that we'd like to include in zoning. We're working through some of the details of that before it comes forward. But we do think that that will come forward either in They'll either get referred out in December or in January. If we can work it through over the next week or two, it may even get referred out in November. We start to be short on actual meeting times. We are also gonna see some draft zoning for Salem Street. We're gonna look at some drafts in some meetings November, but we're planning to actually make it clear to the public that December 3rd will be a city council subcommittee meeting before the regular council meeting to hear to see Salem Street and to show it to the public, ask them to submit public comment. That meeting will be limited to one hour. So if public have comment, then we're gonna ask them to either send it in writing or hold it to this December 11th, wait, to the city council for the December 17th meeting. Uh December 11th. Planning subcommittee meeting where we'll take public comment on Salem Street. Our goal would be to get comments before that, if at all possible, they're hoping to actually report out Salem Street. From the committee to the City Council for the December 17th meeting, so it may actually get reported out December 17th. So this board The board is then, we're just working through an email, a schedule for the spring. Our intention is to have a section of the city for each month. And I, let me give you a quick preview of that. Sorry, bear with me for one second. I should have had it up, I apologize. Oh, because I switched into our other email box. Um, so very, very tentatively, what we're looking to do is in January, look at housing. We've been putting some new housing definitions into the zoning. You'll see some additional definitions coming with, um, the Mystic, Mystic Ave corridor. Um, but in January to actually look at the SF one and two in general residential districts thinking about, um, one, two and three family housing and ADUs. and specifically to look at North Medford in February, to look at South Medford and Hillside. and to start thinking about Medford Square. The intention is to do Medford Square zoning in March. And this is all when the city council subcommittee or city council committee will be looking at them. So if things get reported out for zoning changes, they'd probably come a couple of weeks later, but this is when we'll be really chewing on them in public meeting. The intention of Medford Square being in March is I mean, let me go through the rest of it and then I'll circle back to that. Then April, looking at West Medford. In May, talking about Wellington Glenwood and any additional cleanups and fixes. So some of what will need to happen is that we're gonna do some things, make some changes in a district that in the long run we think should be zoning wide, but we don't wanna break the existing zoning in the meantime. So things will go into separate districts. And then when we get to the end, we'll actually do just some cleanup where we pull some things out and say now that we've rezoned everything, this is a city wide thing, not just for those zones, because you don't want to break the existing zoning in the meantime. Um, some other things that we want to fit into this is looking at the city's tree ordinance and how that fits in with zoning. We don't have an adopted tree ordinance. We have one that the council's been working on for many years. Um, and another one is looking at, um, TDMs and transportation demand management and transportation. Um, some of that timing is because, so the parcels in Medford Square are out for RFP. One of the things that we have said with that is that the developers should not look at current zoning. That current zoning is broken and that it is our intention that either the zoning will get changed to reflect what we want to see there, or it may make sense to do a planned development district for those specific buildings. It may be that it's a combination of both. So what we'd like to do is see what the developers are proposing. The RFP is due December 20th. reflect on that and say, this is what people think they can actually do here in the square. How do we think about that for zoning? And then the timing of Medford Square zoning being in March is because in January, we will review the proposals. We will interview developers as needed. In February, we'll probably be working through the initial contracting. and that gives us some time for February for our consultants to look at these proposals and say, what do we want to learn from these proposals? What's realistic for Medford Square zoning? And then propose, put forward the Medford Square zoning in March. In a perfect kind of world, this board and city council would adopt zoning that would allow those projects to go forward as of right. That may not actually make the most sense because it may be that what we wanna allow on those parcels, we don't wanna allow in the entire square. So it may be that we also need to either do a sub-district or we may need to do a plan development district for these parcels. But we honestly feel that we need to see what the proposals are first before we make any decisions. So we said, let's just put that down and come back to that when we have proposals on the table. We've pushed West Medford closer to the end because we are also starting right now. We got an earmark from the state a while ago that we've just managed to contract for. We have hired the Donahue Institute, which is a quasi-state group out of UMass to do a SWOT, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities SWOT analysis of the city with economic development, but very specifically focusing on West Medford and West Medford Square. The earmark was supposed to be for West Medford Square economic development analysis. So that is just, we just had the kickoff meeting for that last week. So we wanna give that some time for that group to start doing some work in order to inform the zoning that gets proposed for West Medford. So that's sort of why that one is that the West Medford coming at the end is very logical. If you know that we have a study that is kicking off right now on that area and Medford Square in March because of the timing of the RFP. And honestly, there's a lot of interest in looking at the housing. The new ADU law goes into effect in February, but we are still waiting for guidance and regulations from the state on it. I understand that some of the language is conflicting and confusing. At first pass, it doesn't seem that way, and then you realize that there are ways to read what was actually in the law that don't necessarily make sense the way it's written. Apparently, you could interpret it to say that you could put an ADU on a commercial business, commercial building, which doesn't quite make logical sense. So we're waiting for some clarifications to come out on that before we go too, too far on our own side with it. But we're not going to wait past January on that. So that's where things stand. I feel like that was a big dump. As we finalize this calendar, it is the goal of the city to put out some press with the whole timeline mapping out all of the months. And so we're just doing a little back and forth in email to make sure we're all on the same page. And then it is our goal soon in the next, This is one of the things we're working out. One of the members of the group thought we were putting out the press release in December, and I thought we were putting it out next week. So we just need to figure out some of this timing, but we want to publicize that you all are having a public hearing on Mr. Gav. We don't want that to be a secret, and that we're doing the meetings on these other meetings so people can participate. And I'll just circle all the way back to say, I actually met with, I had a coffee with the Chamber of Commerce last week. and talked extensively about Mystic Ave zoning. And there were several Mystic Ave businesses at that meeting who we had like some good conversations about it. And I encouraged them to watch the meeting that we had that night about it and to pay attention and to provide us any comments and feedback. And I offered all of them that if they didn't wanna speak publicly on it, they're always welcome to email me directly. And they should state if they prefer their business name isn't associated with it, but that we do talk to developers all the time. So I'm hoping that some of them will give us feedback. And if we don't hear from them, we talk to them about it. And we're trying to.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Any questions? I have a quick question and just something going back to what Ben had mentioned earlier. Are there any ways where a newer board member can just get caught up to some of the things that the city has been visioning without having to tackle the comprehensive plan? I mean, obviously, you want to start there, right? But just to be able to know what the visions from the city are, is there any... in how the city plans and thinks and things like that when it comes to the Mystic Ave corridor?
[Alicia Hunt]: So we do have copies of the comprehensive plan. And if it's easier to actually flip through a book and look at some maps and the pictures and stuff, we don't give them out to the public because they literally cost us $50 a piece to print. But I'm happy to give them to members of the board. Because I think that you need to know what it says. And if you work better from like flipping through it, I will tell you, I have a copy on my desk. And I don't remember what it's oh, sorry, this is my tabbed up one here is the climate plan. I also have copies of the climate plan. Again, same, same thing that I can provide if that's helpful. We did put together a webpage on zoning, but it doesn't have a ton, ton. It does have, it has how zoning is made in Medford video. If anybody's curious, if you haven't seen it, it's adorable. And the voice is one of the staff in our office. Hold on, let me drop the URL. So for anybody, it's the city's webpage, medfordma.org. or slash zoning. And if you go there, and the first thing on there is this video about how zoning is made in Medford that was made as part of the comprehensive plan process. I'm happy to talk with people. I do a lot of hand-waving with developers and like, this is what we're thinking here and there. It can be a lot.
[Adam Behrens]: There's one thing that might be helpful. I think, Danielle, you had the experience with Somerville. just hearing like the firsthand experience of just similar kind of cities that had like an industrial quarter or like an industrial zone, they went through sort of a comprehensive plan, they wanted to make this big change, and just kind of like what that like that like that awkward sort of sequencing of that like couple of years maybe, where you kind of have the the remnants of what it was, the re-pivot to what we want it to be, and just what we should expect in terms of what is that timeline? Is that a couple of years? Is that five years? Is that really looking for an anchor that's going to change the narrative of the street? Just a little talk over from somebody that's seen that play out would be the most helpful for me beyond any hard stats or anything.
[Danielle Evans]: Yeah, and it's like urban planning is really about the long game. And you do these small little wins when you see some tangible results of the planning. I mean, that's why when you're in planning school, you fantasize about just going to China and planning these. Communities from the ground up, but that's not really how it works here. You know, like people like what are you planning? It's built ever changing and um, it takes it takes a while for things and I mean I was in Somerville and I think ben you're from Somerville. You've seen so many changes, right and um when attorney dash was talking about how You know, he'd be before the boards And we're going by two different zoning sets I was actually on that board when he was always in front of us and having to reconcile the existing code and the new code which was going to be approved any day now and it took seven years. It takes a while, but then usually there's one good catalyst development that can kind of like set the ball rolling and generating excitement for that. And I guess I'm an optimist and things can move slow and COVID doesn't help, but hopefully things are starting to normalize. So it takes a little time. Zoning is the framework to implement the vision of the comprehensive plan. So doing it in the right order, it does take some time. It definitely needs to be a patient person.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And then having a strong vision, that also comes along with that. And the previous proponent kept saying, you can't have a vision. Well, that's where it stops. And that's how you get community to invest. into themselves and you get them to believe what can happen, show them what can happen by the community engagement, right? And getting the community to tell you what they want in certain areas and having municipal leaders and other stakeholders and stuff coming together and making that happen. And, you know, just, again, clear vision, engaging the community. and have a pro, you definitely have to have a pro investment attitude, but not to the point where it's status quo, and everything should be handed to you the way, just because you say, you know. So it's like, but Danielle, to your point, I've never dreamed of going to China and building, I can tell you that in planning school. It's like you have to see the forest before you, but I think your vision
[Ayni Strang]: about how the future will be is so critical. I worked for years and years, decades in Cambridge. And I worked in Cambridge Port, and I worked all over Cambridge. And it took a long time, a lot of patience, and a lot of perseverance. And I saw some pretty rough areas sensibly expanded to support the community. And I really hope that we have enough support for the long vision, because I hear people who live off of Mystic Avenue, on the side streets going up the hills, and their family communities, their, you know, one, two, three family houses, and they very much would like to see Mystic Avenue become part of their community. I don't know where this concept of highways being a problem that you can't build, has anybody ever heard of New York City? I mean, you have to, people got to live and you need to, you need to listen to people who have urban planning experience and to communicate and listen to the community because the community really wants it. And I do understand this gentleman, he wants to invest, he wants to build. Prestige Car Wash is a humongous, humongous company. I go there and it's a nightmare getting in and out of that car wash between BJ's across the way and bicycles. There's no good way with that little frontage to do it, never mind off Mystic Avenue. Just, anyway, just my thoughts.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Well, thank you all. I'm not sure if there's any other items. There's no other items on the agenda. If there's nothing else that need to be added by the city staff or other board members, I can ask for a motion to adjourn.
[Alicia Hunt]: Can I just add, if any of the members would like copies of the books to just shoot, it's probably easy to apply to Danielle. And I'll just tell you, we have in paper copies. I'm looking at them to remind myself the comprehensive plan, the climate plan. We now have the housing production plan.
[Ayni Strang]: We signed it out on a lend-lease.
[SPEAKER_09]: I was literally going to say the same thing.
[Ayni Strang]: Right, because those things are bloody expensive.
[SPEAKER_09]: Read it and return it.
[Ayni Strang]: Like a library, sign it out. I'll come down to City Hall, sign it out and bring it back.
[Alicia Hunt]: I trust you all with them. I will say for any member of the public, if anybody ever asks, there are copies of all of them in the historic room at the library. So any member of the public can go to the historic room and read through not just our current ones, but an crazy, amazing array of old documents as well. So just as FYI, but yeah, maybe, or if you want to collaborate, we do have enough in our office right now that we could lend you all one. And if you feel that you want to keep it and mark it up, you can. And if you say, I wanted to look at it, but I want to give it back, you can do that as well.
[Danielle Evans]: Yeah, feel free to stop by City Hall or I'll drop it off at your house. I like going for a walk, so let me know.
[Ayni Strang]: City Hall's not that far away. We can drive to you.
[Danielle Evans]: And I just let you know, I dropped in the draft or proposed 2025 city board meeting schedule in the folder so that you guys can plan in advance. And I'm just going to have Alicia look at that and just make sure there's no conflict.
[Alicia Hunt]: The city council would like us to actually set our meeting schedule because they want to set a schedule for the city council subcommittee meetings. And we are trying to work pretty hard to not conflict with each other so that at least Danielle and I can attend both.
[Danielle Evans]: And then just to add to that, I believe, so we had moved one meeting The last week's meeting got moved to today. So we have another meeting next week. We have two back to back. And then we're, yeah, so there's no other changes. So everything in your calendar should be fine. It'll be November 6th, November 20th.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Is this the time to speak on the 2025 calendar for maybe revisiting elections only because after January 23rd, I will be stepping down. I'm not going to, I'm not seeking, I'm not able to continue on the board, unfortunately. And you'll need a new chair. So that's for people to think about when you're planning the meetings.
[Ari Fishman]: Oh, we'll miss you, Jackie. I hope you're off to new and exciting things.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: I just, I want to give, anything that I do, I want to give quality time to. And one of the things that I've realized is that in order for me to continue just to stay sane, it's time for me to step down, at least as chair. I may be able to stay on the board for a while, but I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to be cheer. I'm almost positive I cannot. It's difficult for me. Only because you want to just make sure everything is, I want to give quality time to everything and I'm struggling with that as of late. So I've put a lot of thought into it to actually say this now. with my community here, taping it, because I was thinking about it, like, no, no, no, I'll just, I'll just, maybe I can continue to work with the city, but it's, it's, it's extremely difficult.
[SPEAKER_04]: You got to take care of yourself first, Jackie. Yeah. Appreciate everything you've done and continue to do.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Well, I appreciate, thank you so much. And in saying that, Emily will be chairing the meeting next week, and I hope to join at some point, but Emily has agreed to chair the meeting, because I will be traveling.
[Emily Hedeman]: Yeah, so Alicia and Danielle, I can chat with you guys, you two, in advance of the meeting, make sure I don't mess anything up. Big shoes to fill.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: You guys are all awesome, so you'll be great. Okay, so a motion to adjourn.
[Adam Hurtubise]: So moved.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: I'll toss in a second. Vice Chair Emily Hederman? Aye. Andy Strang? Aye. Ari Fishman? Aye. Ben LaValle?
[Peter Calves]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Peter Cowles?
[Peter Calves]: Aye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: Adam Behrens?
[Peter Calves]: Bye.
[fZTCR91cjd8_SPEAKER_43]: And myself, Jackie McPherson. I'm an addict. Have a great evening.