total time: 27.42 minutes
total words: 1085
[Danielle Balocca]: Hey listeners, this is Danielle. And Shelley. Shelley is a radical Dravidian and racial equity activist.
[Chelli Keshavan]: And Danielle is a community mobilizer and changemaker. And this is the Medford Bites podcast. Every two weeks, we chew on the issues facing Medford and deliver bites of information about the city by lifting the expertise of our guests.
[Danielle Balocca]: Join us in discussion about what you hope for the future of Medford. And as always, tell us where you like to eat. All right. So thank you both for being here with me tonight. If you don't mind just introducing yourself with your name and pronouns and just a bit about who you are.
[John Intoppa]: Sure. So my name is John Lewis Intoppa. I use he him pronouns. I am from Medford, Mass, born and raised in the North Medford Heights. I am a returning candidate from the 2019 election when I ran out of high school. And since then, have gone to college and graduated with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Industrial Design with a minor in Sculpture from the Massachusetts College of Art and Design. While at MassArt, I had a very long career, well, all four years, basically, in student leadership, student development, and student engagement, from the dorms as an RA to the student body president to the board of trustees. So I was huge in advocation with student rights, and making sure students had always a voice at the table. And so I'm hoping, you know, the things that I was criticized for my age of 18 running back in 2019, learning all of that and having that experience has definitely shifted a lot. And hopefully, you know, may persuade some people now that there's actual experience there. I'm really looking forward to taking those skills and those trainings and applying it to Medford if possible.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. And it's, you know, I think you bring up a good point, like 2019 was not that many years ago, but so much has happened in those few years that we'll talk about this a little bit later, sort of how, you know, it's changed maybe your approach and maybe the residents attitude towards a younger candidate. So, but first we're going to ask you that question that we ask everybody. So what is your favorite place to eat in Medford and what do you like to eat there?
[John Intoppa]: So I have a few. So a little bit about me. I was born and still have a severe tree nut allergy. So finding places to trust was always hard growing up. But I will say that it depends. If it's a night out, the Ford Tavern or Razo's is a go-to. Can't beat Razo's Chicken Parm. And the Ford, I'm still getting used to their menu as I start to go there. But they've been great with allergies and everything. If I'm looking for a casual bite, Iris Restaurant, Noe Tejada and that crew down in Haines Square has always been phenomenal. Back when I worked at what was then Modern Hardware, they were always very accommodating for me. And then a special shout out to Colleen's because that was the only place I could eat hard ice cream growing up and still can only eat hard ice cream. And so it's like, I don't have to settle for soft serve everywhere I go, which really sucks when you're nine and out. you know, after winning a baseball game at Gillis, it was always nice to go there. But also shout out to those restaurants in particular, because most of them employ students from our school system. And so they actually, you know, give our students jobs, which is really nice.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. Yeah, those are important points that we don't often hear about allergies and sort of who folks are employing. So thanks, Sean.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I love it. Shout out to the students. And I'm also loving the kind of historical story. So maybe we'll jump in. Thank you. I love that you came that prepared with the food question. It is sometimes the most difficult one. But I might circle back to some of the points you made from the beginning. appreciate you kind of beginning to reflect on the difference and kind of running straight out of high school and versus having a couple years in at this point. Maybe you might talk about the pieces that led to running for the second time and maybe what's felt different, what's felt right this time. Yeah, if you might just talk on those for sure.
[John Intoppa]: So the two joke answers but are very real. to that question is I told myself four years ago I would, and I don't like breaking promises. And I spent way too much money on signage to only use them once. But also, the real answer is that I approached it from the point of view as a high school student, senior class president, someone involved in athletics and arts and knew that student perspective. And then a lot of the criticism four years ago was, again, experience. It was you had only had experience in those realms and it wasn't a lot of training and it was, it was good experience, but it wasn't what people wanted. So then when I got to college, the election ran from when I graduated to like halfway through my fall semester. And when I lost, I tried to find opportunities because I was determined to run again on how I could get those experiences and how I could fix that. And so lucky for me, the student trustee position opened up at MassArt, which is, if people don't know, the board of trustees, student trustees, student trustees, an elected full trustee to the board of trustees by the students. And the board of trustees is basically like the school committee of a university. Instead of the superintendent, it's the president. They make sure everything's in check. They value all that. So it's a big thing. It's a big job. Um, and I was still in go mode and went and put my hand in the race as a first year and I got it. Um, and I was super psyched. And then that led into. Uh, two terms on the board and then two terms later as, um, when we got a new president, it was determined that if I had switched to SGA president, that we could build a better relationship and that would, you know, add into the leadership role. Um, and so basically kind of hand tailored and experience in college to not only benefit leadership and sort of amplify those skills, but also like knowing that in four years I wanted to return. And to be honest, I tried to return two years ago, but that's when I realized I wanted to run for president there. And I went, I can't do both. And so I dropped out of the race before papers even be pulled. It wasn't, wasn't even official. Um, it was all hearsay, but, um, So it was those shared experiences and those initiatives that made me realize I was more prepared. I did a lot with the state and a lot of student advocacy. And looking at platforms, there's a lot of great platforms out there between my competitors. It's a tough race. I mean, last year was, four years ago was 10 people, but this is only eight, but it still feels more intense just because of how high level everyone's you know, thoughts are and what they can bring to the table. But to me, I'm, with my experience, I'm the only one that can bring the focus on student experience aspect of it, because that's where I've, that's where my experience is. And so I decided that I wanted to run because I wanted to have someone on there that had that mindset and could think that way to make sure that we're, you know, We're taking that into effect and that's not saying no one everyone that's that's on the minds of everyone, but it's someone that specifically hones in on that aspect would be beneficial. I believe.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, we talked to, um, uh, also Aaron who's running for school committee and also Medford and I think it came up this, like, I think over the last couple of years as we've heard more. About, um. some issues of violence at the high school, just sort of some of those topics. And it sounds like adults and school committee members are maybe putting a different value on the perspective of students, like what's happening in the school currently. And so I kind of wonder, for you having been a student relatively recently at the high school, kind of what you think, what your priorities would be for change if you were to be elected to the school committee?
[John Intoppa]: For sure, so fun fact, Aaron and I actually were on the rowing team together and he actually graduated a year before me, same as Justin Tseng. So you got the class of 2018 and 2019 really in this election season. But yeah, no, there definitely is a more focus. And I will say there is also an alarming lack of focus at the same time. When we talk about violence in the schools, we've seen, you know, that was a huge thing. And it's not really my story to tell, but, To me, there was an alarming lack of response from some of the elected officials on that and what the expectations were in our schools. But for me, so my background is in industrial design, user experience, all of that. No one's asking what the students want. No one's asking what they think and what they've seen and the culture that they've lived. When I was fighting for ALICE to be implemented four years ago, it was because that's what everyone, that's what my peers wanted. That's what we thought was best. And that's what we had put the research into. Um, and there was a lot about, you know, not teaching, you know, not wanting students to learn how to fight or have that fear, but that experience of being in there, I can tell you that students were ready to, you know, with all the unfortunate school shootings going on, we're ready to fight or grab the nearest object at will. I know I was, um, and you don't know that unless you ask. Um, and there was a, a, alarming amount of not asking. So we've really got to make sure we're catering towards the users. And then, you know, when we look at users, we think of parents, we think of students, administrators, we need to make sure everything's balanced. So I'm never going to like the platform right now, as it's developing, it's pretty vague, I'll be honest, because I haven't been able to ask yet. What aspects of this that people want, you know, do we know any mental health programs that we know that will cater towards our students better? Do we know all of this? And so I just feel like they haven't, they've been, we've been talking about what can we do for the students? What can we do for the students? But the question hasn't been given to students. It's been given to parents, guardians, caregivers, and they're just as important, obviously, but we need to ask them too. We need to know what that culture is like behind those cinder block walls. We need to know. And so I think that's still lacking. And I think that with the experience I've had serving in a role that did just that, I can bring that to the table and hopefully make that welcoming environments. That way students. Students are not going to want to go to school if they don't feel welcomed and I want to make sure that we foster that sort of environment within the school committee. So that way they know they can come to us and give these suggestions.
[Chelli Keshavan]: So many excellent points. I have, like, 15 questions, and I'm trying to be organized. Two-part, maybe. I would love your thoughts on maybe the components of student experience. And then I also love this discussion of power sharing and saying, like, yes, admin, teachers, students, parents, we're all stakeholders. But to what extent can maybe older folks say, we have never been teenagers, like, in a digital age. We have never gone to school during, like, sort of COVID touch cultural stuff. So maybe if you might talk about, and you just said it really, between Justin, yourself, Aaron, we've got really a strong showing from some younger people, talk about maybe what power shift, like upstream from like, we're not feeling heard, but what would it look like to shift weight? for power. And I also would love your thoughts, and apologies, I'm known for way too big questions, on what education means to you, right? And like, if we're in a place where violence is a serious concern, how do we move to a place where innate investment in one's own education is what's happening in the building? So, so many things, and thank you for putting your hand to those.
[John Intoppa]: Of course. So, student experience. Student experience is all about how can we set up students for their own success? And that's sort of the approach I took at MassArt. So, for instance, as an RA, I wasn't taking people to visits or telling them exactly where to go, but I was giving them resources and uplifting that or even. Um, to give the example of like facilitated dialogues where two roommates can't get along, I'm not making the decision on the middle ground between the two of them. You know, it's, it's all about try to guide them towards making that themselves and you get a more beneficial react, um, a more beneficial, um, Experience experience out of that. Um, Jesus, how many times am I going to say experience today? Um, but, but it's, it's also like, kind of like how. Um, so I, you know, played baseball all of my, you know, younger life and then, you know, sort of, you know, had a love for it, but I didn't know if it was for me. And then when I joined rowing, I shot off with it, um, because it was something that I had, I had made that decision. Um, and so student experience really, to me is all about guiding our students to making those decisions and making those choices, because in the end. It may take more time. a little more effort because it's easier just to say you're just going to go play soccer for the summer you're just going to go do this but if we can find a way to get those resources out there and accessible so they know what they can pick from. I mean that was the whole appeal of high school growing up was like oh my god I get to pick my classes I get to pick how I want this to go to me. You know in high school a lot of kids didn't like high school, they wanted to drop out. It was because like, this isn't for me. I'm not gonna use these skills. I'm not gonna benefit from this. And how can we, we use that a lot in design is how can we, so my apologies again to that statement. That will be a lot is how can we design that experience? So one, they feel welcomed. Two, we're like, no, we're here to support you. We're here to take you through this. but also it's extracurricular, so paying attention to the arts and athletics as well as in the classroom. We need to make sure that they're getting to the classroom safe. We need to make sure that when they're in our care, that it is a safe environment to learn. And it kind of goes back to that third question of if a student doesn't feel safe in a classroom, they're only gonna be focused on how they're not feeling safe. That was me during Parkland. That was me during, All of these, the school shoots that happened when I was in high school was most of my time was spent trying to figure out how I'd get out of a classroom because I didn't feel safe. And it was, we're talking miles away from Massachusetts, miles away from Medford, but there was all this in the news and it was unsure. And it took away from that, that, that safe environment. And I don't remember, you know, obviously I don't remember everything I learned in high school, but there were, there are pieces missing because of that anxiety of being there. So if we're having students beat up in the hallways, we're having these things happen. Education to me is something that someone wants to have. We talk a lot, I just got off of a fellowship where we talked a lot about growth mindset and what that means to have a growth mindset. And it's all about wanting to grow and to know that you may not be the best at this, but like, so what? Not everyone's the best at everything. And it's easier said than done. But how do we promote a culture where a student says, I'm not the best at math, but if I can't solve this equation by the beginning, but I can somehow manage to solve it by the end, then I'm satisfied. We need to know that our students don't need to be the top. They don't have to be the top at everything, because that just is an unnecessary stressor. But if they want to be, then sure. If they want to pursue it, sure. We used it a lot in art school where it was like the professors were looking at if you started as someone who could paint like Van Gogh and ended like someone who could paint like Van Gogh, you failed the class because you didn't grow. You didn't learn. So if you start the class with someone who doesn't understand 10 concepts, but you leave it understanding five, that's amazing. Good for you. You've gotten something out of it. And so that's sort of that. And education is where you want to learn You're there to learn. And as it gets later on, it's more catered towards what you want. But I think I'm talking in circles. That's essentially what it means to me, at least.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. Go ahead, Shelly.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Maybe you were mentioning design. Talk about when the curriculum doesn't resonate for some students, right? If we're reading, you know, five or seven authors who are all sort of homogeneous and none of them like, you know, maybe they don't speak out to me or Common Core has never, has always made, you know, left me pulling my hair out. Or there are four or more teachers who are so parochial that you just can't teach them anything. And right, if we step into the classroom and believe that everyone has something to learn in every moment, then you know, what do we do in that space?
[John Intoppa]: Um, for sure. And it's, yeah, I mean, for me, so, um, as a young attention deficit child growing up in the Medford public schools, um, if something didn't interest me, it immediately shut down. There were moments where like, I didn't, um, there were certain classes, certain curriculum, certain things where if I didn't resonate or I couldn't find an interest in it, um, then I, It didn't, you know, provoke that curiosity. And that's a toughie because that is something that is a case-by-case basis. But I've always found that, speaking about the teachers specifically, whenever I had those difficulties, I was able to self-advocate. which was a skill I learned pretty young as someone with, you know, a disability. And if, you know, when the teacher was right with the subject, and I had a lot of great teachers, I was very fortunate, they were able to sort, because of their kindness and way that they helped me learn it, it proved that importance, I guess. But I don't know if I have a specific answer on how we can fix it right now. Like, I don't know if I, can think of a way to design a better experience in that sense where it's like, besides saying that we need, if we can't prove, if we can't convince the student that it should interest them, we should convince them why it's worth knowing at least in the slightest and sort of showing why, you know, sometimes things feel like busy work. So students don't want to do it, but if we can show why it isn't, we're actually building this skill, being transparent about what we're trying to do, then But again, I'm not a teacher and I'm not a trained teacher, so I don't know. And that'd be something to talk to the MTA about skills that they've learned and skills that they've done.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, I think, too, maybe outside of skills of teachers, I think that curriculum is something maybe to think about. And I wonder, too, the first time you ran, you were just out of high school, and now you've gone through college. And I think one thing that college can be really powerful with is providing other perspectives, right? So we probably have more limited curriculum in metropolitan schools because we're teaching to MCAS or, you know, we're following these are the things that the students need to know. But I found in college, like, I like the, the, the idea of like critical thinking, right? Here's what my textbook says, what do I actually know about that time in history of like, what was happening and who was writing history, right? And so I think there are some big debates around like critical race theory, and like what books kids are allowed to read, right, that I think that so I wonder like maybe how how you what you've noticed in the Met for public schools that maybe would you would think more critically about as a school committee member.
[John Intoppa]: What specifically that's a great question cuz again, yeah talking about those like thinking outside of the box and those building those cultures and perspectives and finding different points of view. There were some classes that promoted that. There was something like, I'll take a shout out to Mr. Milne's psychology class, who also ran two years ago, Andrew Milne. He had us really think about what our stance was and how to back it up. and he would question us, even if he agreed with it. And he never told us if he agreed with it or not. That was his thing, is he was like, I will never tell you what I agree with, what I don't agree with. I'm gonna push you to figure that out. In fact, I had a class, sort of when you start to sort of challenge your inner dialogue, I had a class called Free Speech, Democracy, and Artists, and it was all about, and college was all about free speech and art, which is a huge topic. And it was this thing where, and MassArt is a very liberal progressive college, And the teacher specifically assigned assignments where you had to defend right-wing conservatives because of their freedom of speech. You had to challenge what you thought was ethically correct and lawfully correct. And I thought that was like a really interesting balance of like trying to figure out how your head works and like, what does it mean by that? But at the high school, middle school and elementary school level, I think exposure, you know, exposure to the arts different perspectives of that sense. What does it mean to be an artist? What does it mean to be a designer? Asking those questions early on. I wish there was a more complicated exposure. I mean, complicated answer that I could give in the moment besides exposure is the biggest thing we can do is showing what's out there in the world. Showing out, you know, what we can do and finding an age appropriate level is also something that I know nothing about and would need to consult with people about. I'm not going to pretend like I know when to introduce certain topics. Um, but there are topics that need to be introduced that aren't introduced mental health, which was on the platform four years ago. I don't see any development with that. Um, cause we're not even talking about it. We're not talking about all these stressful things and I hate to say it, but. Um, in a very interesting way to say our kids are going through it. They are, especially during the pandemic, they were going through a pre pandemic. I saw it firsthand. I've dealt with them. Um, and. we needed to find a way to show that it was okay to not be okay. And that, even that mindset wasn't even alive in the schools. And so it's like a whole rehaul of what that experience is. But I think I might be straying from the question a little too much, but I would say that what I noticed the most was it was Medford High was really starting to improve with the cultural clubs that were starting up and, you know, getting stronger, Asian clubs spreading, you know, you know, the culture and, There were a lot of great fairs that sort of we're able to get a glimpse of things into. Sometimes I feel like when we don't understand something, it's because we haven't even gotten a small glimpse of what that might be. And if there's a way to expose that, like I had no clue what rowing was and it ended up being my high school sport. It was because one, my music teacher, Ms. Grant said, Hey, there's a middle school program starting up. It's really cool to watch. And I was like, she thinks that's cool. why don't I check it out? And then it was my whole thing from, you know, seventh to when I graduated. Um, so I hate to say, I feel like I've strayed from the question, but I don't know if I have a proper answer besides exposure and, um, I guess letting people explore and trying to see what, you know, what we can do. If people, you know, want to explore what it means, you know, what their mental health is, and we need to find the resources to do that safely and to make sure that we know what that means. If they want to start thinking more critically, or if they want to start, Um, looking at these, these, um, phenomenas that you've mentioned earlier, like we need to see, right. Do we have the, we can talk about these things and these things should be talked about, but do we have the expertise to make sure it's done appropriately? Cause it's one thing to talk about something, but if you don't have the people that actually know what they're talking about, you can do more damage than, than good essentially. So we need to make sure that it's, it's done introduced correctly and guided appropriately.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I love that. Those are profound goals, although I might say it is a student's responsibility to invest in their own learning. It's less of a question than if you want to. But that's just me. I feel like you're bringing up so many salient points and I'm wondering if you have visioning around, you know, the presumption that you do get elected and What does your role bring to school committee? And where might you leave Medford sort of on the other side? What does best practice feel like? Like, you know, what's that one piece that we say, you know, John came, came with it. He, you know, gifted the city with these one or two thoughts. And then maybe if you have any fancy events or, you know, kickoff campaign stuff that we can all come through and support, let us know.
[Unidentified]: For sure. geez, if I got on, or when I get on, we'll say like that, what would the legacy sort of be?
[Chelli Keshavan]: Or sorry, where does the work begin? Maybe because two years is an interesting amount of time.
[John Intoppa]: You know what, let's put it like this. Say I get elected. I serve two years. And then either life happens or whatever, and I can't do it again. And it was like, what did he do in two years that was worth something? I'm all about building foundation. That's my biggest thing, is how can we do the research? And that's what my role is, is before any product goes on the market, my role is to build that foundation for the engineers to take it and run with it. And so I'd say for me, getting the conversation started, which we kind of did four years ago, but they've died off for obvious reasons. Some other things, large things came up, a global pandemic, a pandemic hit, and a lot of focus shifted towards that.
[Unidentified]: But I would say building the foundation of really
[John Intoppa]: Letting our students know it's okay to invest in the arts and what those benefits are without, you know, looking at a on a. On a less surface level, um. What mental health is and how it can show itself at very different ages. Um, and how the best, the more we know about it, the better and also the more we talk about it, the less of the stigma that there is. Um. as well as building a foundation for our students to build a foundation. One of the words, the key phrases within the campaign is interdependence. Cause we want to, you know, give these skills to our students, but to build that vibrant community, they need to work with themselves and figure out, you know, how that works. Different cultures come and go at least every four years within the buildings. And so I'd say that if, if, we can take these high level skills and things that we can apply to the school committee to work better together. But then the students look at that and look at us and go, okay, maybe we can figure out a way to, you know, build a better environment in our classrooms, you know, ourselves. Um, I think that'd be a beautiful, a very beautiful thing, um, just to spread more kindness and more, um, acceptance for some things that maybe seem taboo, like someone wanting to be an artist when they grow up and, um, or someone, you know, who has a bad day, but can't figure out why, you know, sometimes it just happens. And so, or, you know, I, you know, someone is a extreme theater geek, but they find a home in a rundown boatyard, things like that, where it's like, we can make it so that way our students are sustaining themselves as well. We should be sustaining them, we should be building that safety net, the more we can help them do that now, the more successful they'll be later on. And that's why also the campaign's really investing its time into the Center for Citizenship and Social Responsibility, the CCSR. I was one of the members of that in high school. My project became one of the city's free little libraries and investing in that program and bringing that more attention. It receives funding from the Cummings Foundation, but trying to pivot it so that the city invests in it more and really looks at what we're doing. If we can start this, these leadership skills where it's a little more hands-on in the elementary school and maybe middle school level. But once you get to high school, it's hands off. It's very much like you're figuring this out, you know, throw them in the deep end. We'll see what's what happens. And it's working, it's building culture and collaboration. And it's all these keywords again, that we're throwing out there, but looking hypothetically at that kind of stuff. Um, I don't know, I think just even starting conversations and starting to build and laying foundational groundwork. So that way. Times change, um, you know, we've remodeled houses all the times, but if we have strong, we can't do it unless we have a strong foundation. Um, and so that is something that I would love to do and hope to bring and also just bring students to the table. The only way students have a seat at the table is that one high school senior or the two high school seniors that sit off to the end that don't have a voting, right. But, you know, they go. Hey, what's going on there? And then they kind of voice that. And then to sort of end that thought and put the last part of the question, we've rescheduled the kickoff. The kickoff will be October 8th at 11 a.m. at the American Legion Post 45. It won't be too long. It'll be a great time to sort of raise funds. We're later on in the month, but that's okay, because we still have funds left over. We still have a lot of signs. Um, but really, we also want to give back to the community. So a lot of the funds that we will raise will also be donated to, um, if, if groups like the, the orchestra and band reach out, we want to be able to. You know, help fund those projects. So it's also, you know, getting, getting in a part of it is getting literacy out and getting signs out, but it also is investing in our community. So, um, any, any and all donations are great. Um, we don't have an act blue. We, um, use PayPal and we also have people just sending checks to the house essentially. But you can find out more about that on my website.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. Can you tell us what your website is?
[John Intoppa]: Sure. It's Intoppa4Medford.com. Facebook is also Intoppa4Medford.com. Instagram is Intoppa4Medford.com because they said I was impersonating myself. So they banned Intoppa4Medford. So I had to make another one. They said, you're impersonating this 19 year old kid running for office. And I said, ah, you got me. So I stopped fighting them. So you can find out stuff about that. The campaign's changing as we talk again to that user experience and to see what people are looking at, what people want to get out of this kind of thing. But again, building the foundations of JEDI principles, justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion. building on the principles of open educational resources where students don't really have to buy textbooks, but if they want to get extra stuff and want to keep investing in their own future, how can we set up systems and introduce them to those early on that really benefit higher ed and how to prep them for life? I learned how to write a check by making this committee. That's how I learned how to write a check was by starting the campaign. And so investing more in the involvement fair, the job involvement fair, and those sort of small fundamentals that we may overlook as well. But I think I've talked for long enough about that question.
[Danielle Balocca]: We appreciate it.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I love it. I'm sure you know that Toni Morrison says, in times of pain, the artists go to work. So that might be a space to start.
[John Intoppa]: Yeah.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Thank you so much.
[John Intoppa]: Thank you. No, I really appreciate it. I really appreciate this opportunity to and what you guys do. It's great. It's a great way to get information out for Candace, but also like, you know, kind of start listening to the non political episodes and see what you guys have to say.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, it's a it's a political heavy season, but we really do appreciate your time and wish you the best of luck in November.
[John Intoppa]: Thank you. I really appreciate it. But yeah, please anyone feel free to reach out. I more than happy to have casual conversation or official conversation. If you have a question, nothing is too small. If you're someone who uses Facebook, Instagram, or even Reddit, I look over that a few times on the Medford Mass, the Medford MA subreddit, or just shoot me an email and we can go get coffee at Dunks and chat it out. But more than happy to.
[Danielle Balocca]: All right, great. Well, thank you, John. We'll put all that information in our show notes as well. So thank you so much.
[John Intoppa]: Thank you.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. The Medford Bites podcast is produced and moderated by Danielle Balacca and Shelly Casherman. Music is made by Hendrik Idonis. We'd love to hear what you think about the podcast. You can reach out to us by email at medfordpod at gmail.com, or you can rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts. Thanks so much for listening. Guys, what's the name of the podcast? Never Bites. Never Bites. Good job.
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