AI-generated transcript of Medford City Council Committee of the Whole 12-09-25

[Unidentified]: Hey, Zach, can you hear me?

[Zac Bears]: Yes, we can hear you.

[George Scarpelli]: All right, buddy. So, all right. I do have, obviously, you know, I have some questions as a solar guy. So I know that it shouldn't be a big deal though.

[Zac Bears]: Great.

[George Scarpelli]: Yeah.

[Zac Bears]: Brenda's here. Brenda's got the info for us. Perfect. Hi, Brenda.

[George Scarpelli]: All right.

[Zac Bears]: We wanted to have an opportunity to talk about it before the regular meeting.

[George Scarpelli]: So yeah, no, I think it's important, especially the climate that's going on right now with solar.

[Zac Bears]: So yeah. Great. Well, we'll get people to join us and then we'll get started. All right. Hi Brenda. Hi Emily. Hey Matt.

[Unidentified]: Hello.

[Zac Bears]: Hi Rich too.

[Marie Izzo]: Hello everyone.

[Zac Bears]: and whoever is manning the booth, Kevin or Jim, are shamed.

[Unidentified]: Rich, could you make Brenda a co-host?

[Marie Izzo]: Absolutely. Thank you.

[Brenda Pike]: Thank you. I can unmute myself now. Hey, everyone.

[Unidentified]: I think we're just waiting for Kit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's in the waiting room. All right. Anna's not able to make it tonight.

[Zac Bears]: All right, welcome everyone. This is Medford City Council, Committee of the Whole, December 9th, 2025. It's called to order. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll.

[Marie Izzo]: Councilor Kelly. Vice President Collins. Present. Councilor Lazzaro. Present. Councilor Lemi.

[Matt Leming]: Present.

[Marie Izzo]: Councilor Scarpelli.

[Zac Bears]: He is present. He is muted.

[Marie Izzo]: Is he the iPhone?

[Zac Bears]: He's iPhone, yeah.

[Marie Izzo]: Do you want me to make that a co-host as well?

[Zac Bears]: That'd be great, yeah. You should be unmuted, George. Okay, can you hear me? Yep. Okay, present.

[Marie Izzo]: Councilor Tseng.

[Zac Bears]: Present. And President Deans. Present. Six present, one absent. The meeting is called to order. Action and discussion items 25-186 submitted by Mayor Breanna Lungo-Koehn. Authorization of contract period in excess of three years. McGlynn School solar panel, 20-year contract with Select Energy. Dear President Bears and City Councilors, I respectfully request and recommend that the City Council approves the following 20-year contracts with Select Energy. As the Council is aware, Mass General Law Chapter 30B, Section 12 requires City Council approval for a contract that exceeds three years. Agreement authorizes the city to enter into a 20-year lease agreement to allow for installation of solar photovoltaic PV on the McGlynn School roof, as well as a power purchase agreement to purchase electricity produced by said installation. This type of financial agreement was previously used on the Department of Public Works solar installation. It avoids any upfront capital costs to the city. Instead, the installer owns the solar panels and the city purchases the electricity produced by them. The contract is for 20 years, the anticipated useful lifespan of the solar panels. It stretches the cost of the panels over a length of time that reduces the per kilowatt hour cost of energy from the current supply cost of 0.1311 kilowatt hours to 0.0467 kilowatt hours. Respectfully submitted, Breanna Lungo-Koehn-Mayer. And we scheduled this committee of the whole so that we could have a discussion on the request for a contract allowing for a contract period greater than three years, allowing the city and the mayor to enter into that. And we wanted to make sure that we heard from Brenda from our planning development sustainability office and get any questions answered because there's some timeliness required here the changes in the federal landscape around renewable energy. So I will recognize Brenda Pike to present on this, and then we'll go to councilors for questions. Thank you.

[Brenda Pike]: Thank you. And I will just share a slide with some information about this. And first off, I just wanted to say I appreciate you holding this meeting considering the timeline for this contract. I know we teased this topic in the past when we were talking about the HVAC project at Andrews and McGlynn, but now we're back with an actual proposal. And this is for the power purchase agreement for a 360 kilowatt system that would generate about 48% of the McGlynn's current electric usage at a flat rate of about four and a half cents per kilowatt hour for 20 years. And it's projected to save us about 64,000 in year one. And the installation would start in the fall of 2026, after the HVAC replacement and the roof refurbishment are done. But we do need to sign the contract by the end of this year to meet federal tax credit requirements. And we wouldn't be applying for those tax credits ourselves, but the installer would be and the rate that we get is based on them passing part of that on to us. So if the project weren't eligible for tax credits, the rate would be almost double what we show here. We discussed this with the school committee last week and got their approval to move forward. And that's the quick summary of this, but if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[Zac Bears]: Great. I will go to Councilor Scarpelli and then anyone else who has questions. Councilor Scarpelli.

[George Scarpelli]: Thank you, Councilor Bears. I will disclose that I do own a solar company and it has no direct impact with this negotiation, but I just wanted to disclose that. Um, for the record, Mr. President, so I, I do, I do see Brendan. Thank you for taking taking the time. But I did have some questions. I, um, if you can, can you share the reason why, you know, I know that that upfront costs really doesn't make that really doesn't make a difference if. we have either PPA or ownership. Now, the benefit I know with ownership after the 10 years, the benefit is very, very high for us and more beneficial. But why was it, why would you, give us an example why we took PPA, a lease over the ownership if you can.

[Brenda Pike]: Yeah, so I mean, I agree that the long term financial benefits would be higher if we own the system, but it would cost over $900,000 upfront. And so it would be a five year payback before we saw any savings. And then one other benefit specific to the PPA model is that we are responsible for the maintenance of it, the installer would be.

[George Scarpelli]: Okay, so with the... Have we done a cost analysis to show what the five-year and what the benefits are for the first through the leasing option and the benefit with ownership over those years? Have we done a detailed analysis to show? Because it would be interesting to see how much money we could save if we put in what it would take to purchase up front and then move forward to ownership. Like I said, I love the fact that we're going solar. It's so important. Just so you know, I'm going to bring this up again, Brenda, and you could tell Alicia, because I made a resolution years ago to look at the Dillboy Stadium parking lot and the Hormel Stadium parking lot to turn that into a solar parking lot to assist with funding the hockey rink and the stadium. And I think that'd be something I'd like to look into later, but that's neither here nor there. With this situation, we're looking at 731 panels, and I know the breakdown projected $64,000 in savings. I think that, you know, just for, I wouldn't hold it up, but I'd just like to know what the analysis would show between leasing and owning and where that ROI would be.

[Brenda Pike]: Yeah, I don't have that in front of me right now, but I can follow up with you. OK.

[Marie Izzo]: Yeah. Yeah, I can. That'd be great.

[Brenda Pike]: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I think the big difference here was is the tax credits. Right. So when we were looking at, you know, potentially delaying this in order to purchase it or to move forward with the PPA with the tax credits. I think that's one of the major reasons why we chose to move forward with this PPA right now.

[George Scarpelli]: The tax credit though, the tax credit is still in effect for commercial properties or commercial deals through 2027, so it wouldn't affect us negatively until after 2027, correct?

[Brenda Pike]: Well, if we sign the contract by the end of this year, the installation can be before the end of 2027, but we would need to sign the contract.

[George Scarpelli]: Right, so I know the big beautiful bill that's killing so many initiatives in that country is putting us in a terrible situation when you're looking at benefits for especially solar and wind. So I think it's sad. Okay, that answers that. Um, the, the, the other piece that's really pressing is, um, as we move forward with the new roof. Um, and we start then looking into liability of, um, who then takes the liability of any leaking issues with. when it comes to longevity of the roof and asking if the roof, do we know if it's going to be ballast mounted or are they going to be penetrating through the roof? And then who would then take the responsibility or do we lose the warranty with the roofing company once we then jeopardize the seals with With solar, because I know it's two different companies, correct?

[Brenda Pike]: Yes, yes, and they are discussing with the roofing company the warranty situation there in the same way that the HVAC project had to coordinate with the roofing company in order to make sure that they didn't void any warranty that we had on the roof there.

[George Scarpelli]: And we'll get clear definition who will then have ownership. I know that when you lease, you have, at least in the residential side, there's a 10-year penetration warranty for any leakage. But when you're talking about a commercial flat roof, and we're looking at issues that we've had in the past, I'm looking down the line where we're walking away from this and this council might be gone long gone in 10 and 15 years, but then we'll see the negative effects of an aging roof with penetration from. from solar install. So I think that it's important that we get some of those answers, Brenda, taken care of because when it comes down to it, I would hate to hear at the council, sometimes our council likes to blame councils in the past. I'd hate to be that council that they talk about 10 years from now saying it's all their fault because they didn't ask the right question. So if we can get some guidance and some Some, um, you know, something in writing so we know what what has been the decision who takes that that that that warranty and that risk. So.

[Brenda Pike]: Yep, get KP law has been negotiating the contract with select on our behalf and. That has been one of their main considerations is where, who has liability for what portions of it, right? So if it's something that is directly as a result of the solar panels, then that would be, the liability would be with Select.

[George Scarpelli]: Yes.

[Brenda Pike]: Yep.

[George Scarpelli]: So I appreciate all the hard work, but again, I think there are some questions for me just to say, to bring it forward tonight, that if we need a vote tonight, I just think it's without knowing those particulars. The financial aspects, understanding the lease over the own ownership, I understand that. The other avenue that the question that was asked was, did we look at possibly carrying our own battery? So, we can store the energy and then then sell it back with net meter into the, the utilities. Is that something that was ever entertained by any chance?

[Brenda Pike]: We didn't look at it for this project, but we did for the Andrew solar project. And that was something that wasn't. financially viable without a grant for the battery, which is something the Department of Energy Resources has come out now with a grant for batteries in particular. So that's something that we could do in the future, but it didn't line up with the timelines for this.

[George Scarpelli]: I know there are some restrictions when it comes to how far the services to the plant that it would, that answers that. So I appreciate you looking into that. But again, like I said, understanding that maintenance question, that warranty question, I think that's so important before we move on to anything that I would hate to be the council that said, we would like to move forward with this without understanding totally what that That impact would be on the city down the line. Um, if something does happen with that roof, because we've always from a lot of us that we're here for a while, understand the negative impact that we saw at the high school. And we saw see the. The shoddy work of past roofing contracts that were. were pushed through at the Medford High School site. So, but again, it's a lot of questions and I appreciate the answers, Brendan, appreciate the hard work and I yield to my fellow colleagues. So thank you.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Councilor Scarpelli. I appreciated those questions. Go to Councilor Lazzaro and then Councilor Leming. Councilor Lazzaro. Emily, you're on mute.

[Emily Lazzaro]: I'm very good at Zoom. Really quickly for some clarification, this is the final negotiated deal and there won't be further negotiations on this? This is the proposal and this is it?

[Brenda Pike]: The contract is still being negotiated at the moment, but we wanted to come to you now because with the timing of this, it was it would have made it more difficult to wait until after the contract is negotiated.

[Emily Lazzaro]: Oh, I do not feel comfortable moving forward with something without a final contract with final numbers. We've had some tricky stuff with contracts that we approved a longer term, or we didn't, a prior city council approved a longer term contract and then Obviously, we're never a part of the negotiating. So I guess there isn't a guarantee that this will be exactly what the numbers will be, what the kilowatts per year, how many years it'll be, what the projected savings will be. I mean, well, the projected savings is just an estimate. I understand that. I guess I'm confused about how we can approve something if we don't know what the final numbers are.

[Zac Bears]: Yeah, I will note that technically we don't approve the contract. We are authorizing the city to enter into a contract period greater than three years.

[Emily Lazzaro]: That's the only thing we're negotiating then. We're only saying you can have it for more than three years.

[Zac Bears]: We can ask a lot of questions, but yeah, we never approve a contract. We just say the period can be longer than three years.

[Emily Lazzaro]: So I guess then what is the point of showing us all this information? I mean, honestly, can you answer that?

[Zac Bears]: Me or Brenda?

[Emily Lazzaro]: No, I'm curious. I mean, I think it's great to have this presentation. It's good to do it in a public meeting. I'm glad that we're doing this project. I'm glad we're taking advantage of the tax break. we don't have the capacity to approve or not any of the things that are being negotiated. So I mean, sure, we can do it for more than three years.

[Zac Bears]: Yeah, I'll recognize Brenda.

[Brenda Pike]: Yeah, so I mean, it's possible that these numbers may change slightly with the final contract. But it I wouldn't anticipate it changing very much. Um, and a lot of the contract negotiations, well, all of the contract negotiations that are going back and forth right now, um, are red lines to, to things like the liability conversation. Um, so that's, um, that's where that is right now. Yeah.

[Emily Lazzaro]: Okay. Um, I guess what I'd like to be really clear about is that what we as a city council are approving here. is to authorize the mayor's administration to have a contract with a business that will supply the solar panels that is longer than three years, which is required by state law that we approve the mayor's office to negotiate a contract that is longer than a three-year contract. That's the only thing that we are approving, just to put that in the public record.

[Zac Bears]: Great, thank you. Great, thank you, Councilor Lazzaro. Councilor Leming.

[Matt Leming]: How long would it take you, Brenda, to get the answers to the questions that Councilor Scarpelli asked? I'm interested in knowing the answers to some of the points that he brought up and the costs and benefits and downsides of owning the whole solar panel apparatus versus uh, renting, renting it out and getting the federal tax credits before December 31st. But I'd like to know off the top of your head what information you think you can get us about those benefits and about who's liable for the roofs and so on before this goes to a regular meeting.

[Brenda Pike]: Yeah, so I mean, I would expect that the final. The contract would be finalized by next week, considering the timelines for this. So especially the. The liability portion of that that is, like I said, still going back and forth with red lines right now before I could get you a final answer on exact language around that. I would want that contract to be finalized.

[Matt Leming]: Yep. Bigger picture, I'd just like to know if the city in the long term would benefit more by doing this and taking advantage of the federal tax credit requirements in the window that we still can, or if it would be better to make a plan to actually put up the upfront costs ourselves and hold off on this. That's really the sort of the essence of the question there.

[Brenda Pike]: Yeah, and I would just point out that the tax credits are about 30 percent of the total cost. So, yeah, I can definitely, I can get you those numbers next week.

[Matt Leming]: Thank you.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Councilor Leming. Councilor Scarpelli?

[George Scarpelli]: Just for clarity, I know that the federal tax credit will expire on December 31st for residential, but to commercial-based properties, we still have one year until December 31st of 2027. Correct, Brenda?

[Brenda Pike]: We, in order, we have to safe harbor this by the end of this year, by signing a contract by the end of this year, in order to, yes, we can install them by the end of 2027. But we need to have a contract signed by the end of this year to safe harbor that tax credit.

[George Scarpelli]: Right. So that the the the company that will be taking advantage of this tax credit will be the leasing company because that's who then then that's who takes the the benefit of the tax credit. That's why they're getting the that's why they can negotiate with us at a lower rate because, you know, it's give and take. You know, like again, that's why when you look at ownership and taking advantage of that 30%. and then look at the ROI to see where and when that falls in. We might not have the capital needs to be done at the beginning, but that would be just the monthly payment. That would be the cost occurred to this. It wouldn't be anything out of pocket, correct? If ownership.

[Brenda Pike]: we would need to pay for that up front. Um, for the power purchase agreement, there is nothing out of pocket up front.

[George Scarpelli]: Right. Like I said, I, my confusion, my, my, my question is making sure that looking at the option and what that would look like, the cost upfront, and then the benefit, what it would look like after it was paid off. So I apologize for that, but thank you.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Councilor Scarpelli. So we've had some good questions. Brenda, do you think you'll be able to bring some of those answers to us next week when we discuss this? Our last regular meeting is next Tuesday, and I know we have this deadline coming up. So that's one of the reasons that we scheduled this committee of the whole. It seems like we got some good questions out the door. Do you feel like you have other questions you need and some answers that you can bring next week?

[Brenda Pike]: Absolutely, yep. And if there are any other questions that people have that you think of after this, let me know and I can be prepared to answer those next week.

[Zac Bears]: Great. Thank you, Brenda. Thanks, Brenda. Any further questions from members of the Council? And I don't see any members of the public here. I know Chris Stevens from God I know Medford is here. Chris if you have any questions or if any members of the public would like to speak you can raise your hand on zoom. All right, seeing none, what we would need here is a motion to refer this to the regular meeting and adjourn. Is there a motion?

[Matt Leming]: So moved.

[Zac Bears]: On the motion of Councilor Leming to refer this paper to the regular meeting and adjourn, seconded by Councilor Scarpelli. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll.

[Marie Izzo]: Vice President Collins. Yes. Councilor Lazzaro. Yes. Councilor Leming.

[Matt Leming]: Yes.

[Marie Izzo]: Councilor Scott Beally.

[Matt Leming]: Yes.

[Marie Izzo]: Councilor Tseng.

[Zac Bears]: President Bears. Yes. Six in the affirmative, one absent. The motion passes and the meeting is adjourned. Thank you. That's a good one.

[George Scarpelli]: Let's have more of these, Zach.

Zac Bears total time: 5.15 minutes total words: 515	George Scarpelli total time: 8.44 minutes total words: 746	Matt Leming total time: 1.49 minutes total words: 92	Emily Lazzaro total time: 2.41 minutes total words: 202