[Danielle Balocca]: Hey Medford Bites listeners, and happy Valentine's Day. Listen until the end of today's episode to hear some special Valentine's Day messages. Today's interview is with two very special Medford residents, David Harris and Barry Ingber. David Harris, now retired, has been recognized as a leading voice for civil rights in the Boston region and has spoken extensively at local, regional, and national forums on civil rights, regional equity, and fair housing. Barry Ingber, also retired, is a community activist and organizer working with local groups including People Power and Safe Medford. In the following interview, David Harris speaks with great pride about being a resident of West Medford. To introduce today's interview, I'll read an excerpt from the prologue of A Legacy Remembered, The African American Community in Medford. created and edited by Kristen Johnson, Anne Knolling, and the West Medford Remembrance Committee, who include Wallace Kuntz, Dorothy Elizabeth Tucker, Maureen Sani, Robert Fury, and John Reed. Focusing on the history of West Medford and the residents that have made their mark on Medford, the prologue states, the concern about losing this history is real. We refer to ours as lost history, a story that is fading as quickly as our elders die and our families move away. Most of the history of this neighborhood resides with the memories of these few remaining elders. Our families live in the neighborhood between Boston Avenue and Mystic River Road, some of whom are direct descendants of the original African American settlers. They built a community despite times of unspoken discrimination, involuntary segregation, and economic hardship. Within a few city blocks, our ancestors wove a tapestry of support among neighbors. They established small businesses that nourished their families and enhanced the community, created networks that protected and advanced next generations in ways that they never experienced themselves, and over time solidified their reputations as a substantial and effective advocacy group for this independent African-American neighborhood. A Legacy Remembered includes moving tributes to many of these important and historical Medford residents. I got a copy from the Medford Public Library and recommend checking it out. Hopefully, it's a helpful supplement to listening to David share his thoughts and feelings in this interview. I hope you enjoy. Thank you both for joining me today. But if we could start just by introducing yourselves, saying your names, pronouns, and just a bit about yourself.
[Barry Ingber]: Okay, I'm Barry Ingber. I identify as he and I've lived in Medford for 35 years. I am a retired activist in Medford and my career was spent largely working, primarily working in nonprofits with low income and diverse communities. And I began my career as a low income community organizer.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[David Harris]: Well, listen, I'm glad to be here. I'm David Harris, I use the he series. I am recently retired. I've been a resident of West Medford for 27 years. And, you know, I've had a career in civil rights and race and justice and I have a a graduate degree doctorate in sociology. And I retired from the Charles Hamilton Institute for Race and Justice at Harvard Law School last May. So I'm really pleased to be here and be part of this conversation.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you. Congrats on your retirement and thanks for making the time. So we have a really important conversation to get to today. And before we get to that, the sort of common thread for the episodes is to ask folks what their favorite place to eat is in Medford and what they like to eat there.
[David Harris]: So, you know, you said that, so I'll do this one first. This is really, this is really terrible, but I'm going to give a huge plug to Goldilocks. I mean, huge Goldilocks, that's it, okay?
[Barry Ingber]: Well, for me, it's like, are we talking pre-pandemic or are we talking now? My favorite place to get takeout is from the Tom Yum Kung, and I love their superior duck.
[David Harris]: That's if you can get through the door, right? No, we were just there the other day. So that's a good, that's right. That's good.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, I talked to Shannon Heaton, who's like a community member and an artist, and she spent some time living in Thailand and also listed that as her favorite restaurant. So that feels like a good endorsement.
[David Harris]: No, that's true.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, so I'd ask you both to join me. I think this idea came out of the holiday celebration at City Hall just last month. And so this idea of trying to have conversations about inclusivity in a broader way and just thinking about it as something that we hope for the community of Medford and thinking about I'm hoping that, David, you can talk a little bit about your work around this topic and Barry as well. So yeah, I think maybe we can start there.
[David Harris]: Sure. So again, I want to say I'm really tickled and glad to be able to be in this conversation with you and with Barry. It's important to me as a resident of Medford for us to tackle these kinds of things in the city. But, you know, I think of, I have a kind of historical perspective and I know we're probably all worn out with all the 1619 talk and controversy, but I do think that, I want to make a point by starting there. First, I'll start by saying that there were Africans on these shores 100 years before 1619, as we know. But 1619 is relevant for American history because we know sometime in late August, some unknown number of captured Africans landed on these shores. And we just acknowledged that a couple of years ago. I think Donald Trump might be the only person who acknowledged that on July 30th of 1619 was the first convening of representative government in the English colonies. And that assembly included propertied white Christian men only. Not only did it exclude the Africans who hadn't arrived yet, it excluded women, excluded native people, excluded those who didn't own property. And this little snippet, those few weeks, to me, encapsulate American history. It is a history of exclusion. And part of that exclusion is the imprecision with which the arrival of these Africans is recorded. It's incidental to our history. And I think that that exclusion and the unimportance of those Africans, not to mention indigenous people, is then captured and enshrined in that beautifully written, eloquently phrased, we the people. And as a nation, we celebrate that almost as a sacred, oath, right, that we think of our nation as being formed by and for we the people. But from the very beginning, from 1619 to 1787, that we the people has been limited. And it has been exclusive. And we have been caught, I think, in the tension between this great lie which is that we are the people, and a constant struggle, right, of those who have been excluded to be included, to be part of this society. And I think that tension clearly has played its way out over these centuries and continues to really haunt us in our regular and routine affairs, as I think as Barry can give some examples.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Barry Ingber]: Well, yeah, I also want to thank you, Danielle, for doing this and for inviting me here with David. And thank you, David, for setting that context. So probably your audience is all familiar with what happened at the City Hall holiday extravaganza. And I think it's a really good illustration of a lot of the dynamics that happen in the city. And I wanna skip over completely, I'm gonna figure we've processed at this point, how offensive the menorah, that menorah display was to Jews like myself in the city. and go to what if they had not done that? What if they had done this display perfectly? If the menorah wasn't backwards, if it wasn't illustrated with an anti-Semitic, poster, what if they had done it right? So what we've got is this huge Christmas display festooning City Hall inside and out, and a desire to be inclusive. And to be inclusive, the administration or a person in the administration decides to have a table, a little table that includes a Hanukkah menorah, a Kwanzaa kenara, and a Christmas tree. City Hall is festooned and you've got this little table that's set aside to illustrate African-American and Jewish culture. and let's pretend that they did it right. What is that? What is that? That's like a little corner of nothing. It's meaningless. It's not inclusion. It's tokenism. And we have to think about, OK, when you look at this tokenism, which as a Jew, I didn't feel like that affirmed me in any way or would have if it were done right. What I would have felt was it's taking what's actually a minor holiday of mine and pretending it's Jewish Christmas. It's not Jewish Christmas. It's Hanukkah. And it's also it's it's essentially it's denying my identity not affirming my identity by subsuming it into a Christmas display. But at the same time, as it is at least trying in in a not very meaningful way to include Jewish and African American culture there, who is it excluded. What about the large numbers of Asian Americans from China, from Bangladesh, from India? How do they fit into this extravaganza? And the answer is they don't. They were not even included as tokens. And so I think that if you want to have a Christmas display, you have a Christmas display. And if you want to include other people, then you start inviting the community to have their own displays. You know, five days from today as we're recording is the Lunar New Year. Is anything happening for the Lunar New Year? Not that I've heard of. I wonder, David, what was your reaction to the concert display?
[David Harris]: Well, I have to tell you, as you speak, this becomes, for me, a very sensitive issue. Just so you know, I grew up in a Unitarian family. My grandfather was a religious humanist. I tell you, one of the most formative experiences of my whole life was when I was in third grade. We used to have this set of books in our house called the Encyclopedia of Natural History. And my sister was in the fifth grade and she wrote a paper on the Scopes monkey trial. And this was in California, right outside of Los Angeles. And a lot of the teachers in the school were from the Church of Nazarene. And at that time, we're talking the late 1950s, they still have religious education in school. And what that meant was that one hour a day, one hour a week, kids were released to religious education. Some kids went to Catholic school, some went to Protestant, and there were a lot of Japanese Americans there, and they had their own little place. My mother said, you all aren't going anywhere, right? And we sat in the room, and my sister wrote this paper on a Scopes monkey trial, and the kids, got wind of it. And by the time I came back into my class, the kids were jumping around on their desks like monkeys, yelling at me, saying, oh, you think we came from monkeys? And a teacher stood there and didn't do anything. And it got so bad at a school that we had to be withdrawn from that school. We were harassed. And I say that because, to me, a Christmas display does not belong at City Hall, period. And this goes back to my comment about the great lie. We have a constitution that guarantees a separation of church and state. Why are we having a conversation about any kind of religious observation at City Hall? It's wrong. So Barry, I'm sorry. So I don't think that all the tokenism. I don't think if you brought every faith you could imagine, which you couldn't do, because some people don't profess to any faith. So again, I think part of the problem is our very notion and understanding and acceptance of what the actual power and miracle of our sacred documents, that constitution is. We violate it constantly without thinking. And so, you know, to me, that's what freaked me out about this. Not, you know, I mean, why a menorah, why anything? Because that's supposed to be a safe place. And it is the definition of tokenism to say, okay, well, we'll make sure there's a little bit for everybody. But there's something wrong with that.
[Danielle Balocca]: I think your point about City Hall being a safe place like maybe that's a like a transition to think about inclusivity more broadly or exclusivity or it sounds like you know you're bringing up these great points about our Constitution being made by like you know it's like. you know, highlighting the powers of like race, wealth, religion, and how those there is a dominant, there's like, there are like dominant pieces of that that are, you know, that's what we're sort of up against when we think about inclusivity and being inclusive. And I think there's lots of other things to point to at City Hall, where this is happening, right? Like we have a city council and a school committee that are like, mostly white, most, I mean, city council, mostly male. And I think there's been reflections on what does it feel like to be a non cis white person going to City Hall or interacting with City Hall. And Barry, I see you have some comments here, so I'll go to you.
[Barry Ingber]: Yeah, I want to tell a story. But first of all, I want to thank David for that. I gave a misimpression. And yeah, I don't think any religious display has any place in any publicly owned place. Yeah, so I misspoke on that one, but let me tell the story. This was about three and a half years ago before the first OR folks were elected to city council. We had a city council that was all Catholic, all white, and either six or seven of the seven were Italian. You know, so you've got a demographic that's really 20% of the city owning the whole thing. But what's relevant here is that they were all Catholic. So at the beginning of the event, there was, as often, there was a recognition of somebody who had passed away in the community. and condolences being resolved by the city council. And I watched from the audience as all seven city councilors stood up and did the sign of the cross. Now, how do you know how do I, as a Jew and as an atheist, and I won't go into how I managed to reconcile those. But how do I, from the audience, deal with this? Like, for a moment, am I in City Hall or am I in church? For one or two members to do that as an act of their personal faith, reflexive act of their personal faith is like, okay, you know, that's, that's cool. But when you see seven out of seven doing it, even though it wasn't planned, it becomes a display that it represents the city. And that that that city does not include me, does not include David, does not include anybody from the ICC does not include the many Hindus that are living in, you know, does not include the city. And that is the sort of thing that I have experienced happening here for 35 years. It happened again at the inauguration. Oh, by the way. where there was and again I think this was an attempt to be inclusive they invited an African immigrant pastor who's evangelical to give the closing blessing and he started his benediction with in the name of Jesus and repeated that at least three and maybe four times over the course of his benediction And I don't necessarily fault him because I don't know how long he's been here. I don't know to what degree he's assimilated and acculturated and understands that that is not appropriate at a civic ceremony. I have to fault the administration for inviting him and not giving him a heads up about how you do this sort of thing.
[David Harris]: No, Barry, it's interesting because those, you know, your comments raise this question about, you know, we should, we can, you know, about, about the public square. I mean, you know, kind of who, you know, there's this idea, you know, what I started to say is who owns the public square, but then that's, that's, that's a crazy notion to begin with, too, isn't it? Right? Because, you know, it's kind of like, you know, when we bought our house, you know, my wife, I joke, my wife jokes with me, we bought this house, you know, like it was a lifelong dream, you know, and, you know, I knew, my mother and father never owned a house, right? And I said to her, I said, you know, well, you know, we can, we'll never own the land. I said, you know, so we have the house, but you know, the land isn't ours. And, you know, and I meant it. I mean, and it's not hard for me to reconcile. It's not hard for me to understand that I don't own this land. But that's the language we have in this idea that we own the public square. And that means it's for me, it's not for you. the whole notion of ownership, right? But having kind of acknowledged my misstep in thinking there about who owns the public square, the question is kind of in a way, what is the public square, right? How do we think about it differently, right? How do we think about, What is the verb we use if it's not own it? How do we honor it? you know, is probably more appropriate. And we honor it, you know, by recognizing and acknowledging, you know, this terrible, terrible term, diversity, by recognizing and acknowledging that what makes the public square a public square is all of this difference. That needs to be recognized, you know, you don't say I'm not Black, and appreciated and welcomed and shared. But again, our notions are of ownership, right? And Barry, you know, it's true. I mean, I don't know how, you know, it's an interesting thing for us to think. You know, there's all this stuff about triggering and I, you know, and it's very difficult and complicated stuff and I'm not sure where I come out on it. But I will say, it's very hard for people to understand the kind of pain that can be experienced by what you just described, Perry, right? Because you become invisible, right? You're not part of that event, right? Especially the city council and that one in particular. But it's also true. Every time I go to an event and I hear that in Jesus' name, And nobody thinks about that. And we all misspeak, we all are insensitive to others, but we have to be willing to kind of reflect on that and look at that as a city.
[Danielle Balocca]: Before we started recording, I think we were talking a little bit about this scarcity thing, where if somebody else is going to get something, if we're going to include somebody, then I'm going to lose something. The imagery of City Hall, I think, helps me think about that too. There was this tiny little piece for these two groups, and then the whole City Hall for one group. like what that and I guess like how how that plays out on a city level and you're saying like you know these folks that were like representing in us in the city government only made up a small piece of the people that actually lived here and so and I wonder like thinking about I think all these things all the history is really important like the recent history the the far past history like how we like use that as we move forward and like sort of what your what your hopes are for the city to take away from some of these things.
[Barry Ingber]: Um, well, um, I mean, through, I'm involved, as I said, in a number of local groups, one of them being safe Medford. Um, and we've been meeting with the mayor and, um, trying to get her to, um, engage in a, in a, a deeper and more meaningful way with, um, with the broader demographic of the city. And, you know, it remains to be seen what will actually happen there. She is listening, but listening and follow through are not necessarily the same thing. But what we think is needed is for the administration to stop thinking about outreach and start thinking about reaching in. Reaching into the community and taking the time and putting in the effort, because as a former community organizer, this isn't easy stuff. This is a major commitment of resources to build connections where you don't have them. And it's, but she's got to do it. She's got to build connections in the Haitian community. She's got to build connections in the Brazilian community. There are large segments of the population in Medford that are completely disengaged from civic and political life, and they need to be engaged. So those connections need to be meaningful. They need to be durable. And I think a part of what has to happen is that not only the mayor, but she and the key members of her administration need to look at who's on the speed dial of their cell phones. And they need to revamp that speed dial. It needs to include people like David. It needs to include people like Kiera Singleton. It needs to include people like the director of the ICC. It needs to include the people from the Chinese business community along Riverside Drive. It needs to include people other than the old guard that has dominated the politics of the city forever.
[David Harris]: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I'm going to go even further, Barry. I'm going to go to your organizing experience. And I'm going to say, you said, you used a key phrase, I think, and I'm so appreciative. You said they're disengaged, right? And to me, engagement is the opposite of outreach. Outreach is this, you know, engagement is an interactive process, right, in which you come to understand that the people you once characterized as voiceless have a lot to say. They aren't voiceless. Their voices have been excluded or muted, right? And so, you know, also before the call, we were talking about this whole idea of seats at the table. Now, and I was saying, you know, we need to get rid of the table, the whole idea. And we need to get rid of the idea of City Hall as this castle with a moat around it, right? Which is the way people, a lot of people see it. I mean, I might go get a parking stick or something there, but it's still, it has that, you know, and the point is that, you know, and it's interesting because, you know, If you watch the news lately and you watch Mayor Wu and the way she moves through the city, right? On the subway, right? The city needs to be out there, right? The table, as it were, you need to get up from the table and get into the city. And it's, you know, and because, you know, I, you know, I, first of all, Barry, I don't want them calling me, but second of all, I think there are other people who should be talking to them. And they have to, you know, and they have to do the work to know and understand who they are. There's not me. Right? And that's kind of part of the problem. That's the typical thing that they would do. Oh, let's get David Harris. He's a black guy. He knows. No. They need to understand what community organizers understand. And that is that it's the people on the street who have the knowledge. and the understanding of what's going on in their lives and how government can and should be not serving them, but should be partnering with them. And again, it's all in the language, this idea of serving the people. Whose government is it? And you have to make that, you have to make that real through action, right?
[Danielle Balocca]: I think speaking of like the history there, oh sorry, like I've heard from folks like, I think there has been like harm done to some of these communities by city hall right so like when you're when we're sitting when the messages like come to us like if you have a you know we were here to hear what you need right like Dr. Divya nod stare destroy with me about how like she tried to do that and was very much like the experience totally shut her off and totally shut her daughter off right and so like I do like appreciate that perspective of engagement. Sorry Barry.
[Barry Ingber]: Yeah, no, I think that. Yeah, that's the point that I was also making about the difference between outreach and in-reach. It's like a figure ground thing, like which is the reality and which is the second to the reality. And we actually described to the mayor a process for doing outreach doing this in a meaningful way. There's several of us who were professional community organizers said, first, you start with what you know, you know, you start with the known leaders in the community, because that's what you know. So you go to David Harris's, you go to the pastors of the churches, you go to the business leaders, and you're looking to fill seats on committees and commissions, you do not ask them. You don't ask them. You ask them, where do people congregate? Who are leaders that I don't know about? Who are the people that people listen to? And you start getting names. And you don't necessarily invite the second tier of names either. You keep talking and getting ideas and finding, getting the names of more people. And then at some point you come across people who you know can speak well for the community that they live in and who will do a good job. And that's when you start inviting people.
[David Harris]: No, that's right. That's right. I see. I told you. I said, you know, you organize it. That's right. So that's true. You're right. I know they can call me, but I'm going to I'm going to send them elsewhere. That's the point. But they're right. So because they don't know. I mean, and no, no, that's an interesting. That's a really important thing. And it is important for them to understand that. They're lucky that they have you kind of advising them. Now the question is whether they'll do it. You know, it's so, you know, look, I will say this, you know, I have a soon-to-be 22-year-old who's only ever lived in this house. I mean, he's in college now, but when I was a kid, I never lived in the same place more than two years in a row. And he loves West Medford. Right. And he and his friends, you know, they've all they've all scattered to different places and some of them are still here, but they are so tight and they have such a feeling for this neighborhood. You know, he's Kevin he goes and says where it's from. He says it's from West Medford, but But the point is You know there's there are ways in which Medford is a special place right and I in West Medford is certainly a special place but. You know, there are things about Medford that that could be that it could be a great city. Right. There are people, there are these old Italian families here, and they are rich in history and culture, right? There's so much to share, right? When you think about, and there has to be a way for this, and the government in a way, it can and should be the facilitator of that greatness. But it has to, it takes learning on their part. It's not, there are things that aren't natural to people who are in City Hall that they need help on, but they're, you know, Anyway, I'm sorry I'm preaching but I, the point that the point I want to make is I think that I do think that metric could be, you know, you know, a special city right when we bought this house. We had friends who said. And we bought it very specifically because West Medford had such a vibrant black community. But as members of the so-called professional class, people say, oh, you should just move to Arlington. Better schools. And my point is, no, no. Medford is much better than Arlington. And I do have some pride in the city, right? And its potential and its possibility. But there are things that we need to reckon with here, just like the rest of the country. And part of that is not, is getting beyond, you know, so again, you know, Siberia, you'll know this is true. So, because what they'll, when they think about diversity, they think about, they'll come to West Medford, they'll get some of those black middle-class families from Medford, you know, kind of to represent, you know, but there's so much more elsewhere in the city, right? And so there's this tendency to take the easy way, right? The way that you know, right?
[Barry Ingber]: And that's the way. And the menorah. Yeah.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you for that. Freddie, would you add anything to what David shared?
[Barry Ingber]: No, I think I've played out.
[David Harris]: And you've been here longer than I have, you know, so, you know, so I'm curious. I mean, do you have a I mean, I mean, obviously, you haven't left, right?
[Barry Ingber]: So I haven't left. It's I mean, I, I moved to West Medford in 1987. And I bought the house that I'm living in in North Medford in 1982, in 1992. It was the least expensive house on the market in Medford at that time. It was quite a fixer-upper. And people would ask me about my neighborhood, you know, thinking Cambridge Port in the 1990s. I don't know if it's still diverse, but Cambridge Port in the 1990s, you know, is it, you know, is your community diverse? And I'd say, I am the diverse. But that's no longer true. This neighborhood is becoming diverse, very diverse. I see people of all different ethnicities and races walking around, as I often do. It feels really, really nice. I also want to say in 2014, during the Ferguson uprisings, I put a kind of a makeshift Black Lives Matter sign out on my front window. And within a week, I had a rock thrown through my window. So I did the only two reasonable things. One was I reported it to the police. and the other was I put up more signs. But now there's Black Lives Matter signs all over the place in my neighborhood. And, you know, so I see a change happening, and I'm welcoming the change. City Hall is just in the first stages of beginning to reflect the changes that have been happening in the community for decades.
[Danielle Balocca]: I think too, like, so I grew up in a town that borders Arlington, but, and I do, I did have friends that had lived in Medford and it was, I think like eighties and nineties, it felt like that was a place where like their family started out until they can move somewhere else. And they like take advantage of a different school system. It does feel like, I don't know, like my history here isn't that long, but like there's a shift in like, this is a place that people want to stay and want to live and want to raise their families. Um, and. perhaps it's been like that longer than I've known it to be that. But I think that that does speak to like what you're saying, David, about like, how does the government sort of uplift the community rather than like dictate, you know, rather than sort of decide for it. And I think there's like interesting things, like from what I've heard about like happening around like zoning and charter review that could have some impact on that. But I feel these are really thoughtful and, and interesting things to hear as well.
[David Harris]: Yeah, it's going to be interesting. You know, I mean, I think, you know, there are clearly concerns about the future of West Medford. I mean, West Medford is looking quite different. And, you know, I think you're right. I think it was, it was a starter place, right? That's what people, people would come here, they buy houses. And then, you know, when their kids got of age, they'd go to Winchester or wherever and then get out. You know, I think there are there are challenges ahead of us I mean I've heard rumors that they now want to bring the green line up here again. And, you know, you know, and it's interesting because those some of those big macro issue that some issues like that. are really important to understand the dynamics. I mean, you know, and kind of think about who wants to be in line up here. It's not the people who live here. It's not the people who live here and, you know, whose voice counts then, right? How do we process that kind of thing? But yeah, the zoning, I mean, there are interesting things on the horizon. And, you know, and those processes have to include the voices of everyone, you see. And so there's an educational aspect of it. There's a kind of communication aspect of it, of letting people know what's going on, what the issues are, and then being open to what they have to say. And that's work. That's the work that I fear our administrations aren't really accustomed to.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, and I did hear something recently about like the term of merit like the, it's just two years, and that like that, you know, I think that could have something to do with like this sense of urgency to get things done and that that ends up ends up probably does exclude lots of voices because they just, and you both shared a story before we started recording about the choosing the last police chief or the current police chief and, and how and I think that speaks to the power that the mayor is given in in our charter and how, you know, maybe like perhaps looking at that or the, I think the hopes to look at that and change that to sort of distribute power a little bit more evenly could could also benefit the city as well.
[David Harris]: And we should be thinking about it. I mean, I think, you know, it's also the case that You know, the black candidates for city council can get about 4,000 votes, right? You know, and whichever one it is, you know, it's about 4,000 votes, and it's always just below the threshold. You know, raises questions about districts, right? Raises questions about how we organize the political structure of the city. Those are things we should think about and have conversations about. And I'm not saying that that's necessarily a solution, but if it happens time after time after time after time, then let's see. Maybe there are different ways we can organize things.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, talking about like war representation where. Yeah, yeah.
[Barry Ingber]: Yeah, I think board representation is important, I wonder if. I mean, one thing. I'm not sure that our city is as segregated as other cities where moving toward representation did improve. No, that's what I'm saying.
[David Harris]: It's a matter, it's a question.
[Barry Ingber]: Something we have to talk about. Right. But what it would improve is it would lower the threshold for people trying to enter races. And I still think it would be valuable, even if it didn't accomplish that goal. I also think that mayoral terms should be four years that they're constantly running for office, and they don't have any ability to do planning that they can count on coming to fruition. And I think that at the same time as that would give the mayor even more power, that there needs to be a redistribution of power from the mayor to the city council, that the long-term dysfunction of city government, where no matter who is the mayor and no matter who's on the city council, in my 35 years here, City Council and the mayor have been at war. And I think that that comes, at least in part, from the fact that the City Council has so little power that the best it can do is to make noise and be obstructionist.
[David Harris]: It's like our current national government.
[Barry Ingber]: Yeah.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Danielle Balocca]: What I do hear like you both saying though is like though certainly the city has its problems and in like on macro and micro level is that there I think there is like a real like richness to the city when it comes to like interpersonal relationships and the individuals that make up the city. I think that's something that I've learned a lot from doing this podcast but also even today like I think there have been like points in the conversation where somebody said something that other than a person was able to sort of like amend or like point out and like I think that's a really good example right to be able to have those sort of like like humor humorous or like humble conversations with each other about these things that really matter and I think sometimes when it comes to politics like the ego pieces get get in the way but I do really appreciate both of your reflections and and I I certainly learned a lot from hearing from both of you.
[Barry Ingber]: You know if you interview retirees they're people who have largely let go of ego
[Unidentified]: I don't care. That's right.
[David Harris]: And nobody's going to fire you or anything. Right. Yeah. That's right. No, it's true. That's one thing old folks are good for.
[Danielle Balocca]: Well, I wanted to see if there's anything that either of you want to add or mention, like things that maybe you're doing that we didn't touch on in this conversation that you wanted to plug or anything like that.
[David Harris]: No, I mean, No, I mean, I think I just would say, Daniel, there's so much going on in the city. I really just encourage anybody who's watching this or paying attention to be part of this engagement, to find someone or some group who's doing stuff either in your neighborhood or another neighborhood and plug in. and drive the engagement. I think that's going to be the real engine for moving us forward. I think that's the nature. That's how we the people comes to include all of us once we insert ourselves.
[Barry Ingber]: I like that as a closing statement.
[Danielle Balocca]: Well, thank you both so much, and hopefully we can touch base in the future.
[David Harris]: It'll be great. I love it. Thank you. It's always fun to talk to Barry. I appreciate it and love it. Okay.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you so much to David Harris and Barry Egbert. As promised, here are some messages for Valentine's Day. One listener, Sharon, has this message for her partner, Ivy. To a talented artist, amazing father, and a loving man, I want to tell everyone how much I love you now and always. You are my love, and I am yours. Vanessa shared this message to my forever Valentines, Lily and Frankie. I love you girls more than you could ever know. Thank you for making me smile until my cheeks hurt. Love, Mom. Lily, age seven, shared this message. My Valentine's Day message is to all the animals of the world. Every animal has their own color. My favorite is all of them, even a horse or a zebra. Animals of the entire world make my life better. The following audio message from Frankie, age five, is dedicated to her teacher, Miss Lindsay, her friend Wyatt, and her mom. Please enjoy a few other recorded messages.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ms. Sunday, thank you for teaching me and why one day can I marry you and you're my boyfriend and I love you mom.
[-Ad9b17iUII_SPEAKER_03]: Hello, this is Joe Hogan. I just wanted to send a Valentine's message to all our neighbors on Cobb Street that love hanging out with us. I just wanted to say happy Valentine's Day. Just know you're appreciated by this house. Thanks for all these great times. Bye. I'm just making a Valentine's message and I would like to give a Valentine's message to my classmates and everyone at the Roberts Elementary School. They have been such good classmates and I would just like to send a Valentine's message to them. Happy Valentine's Day.
[XXXXXX00060_SPEAKER_15]: Um, so, um, I like to sit next to Mr. Giddens because I like him. And so, I'd like to give you valentines. And so, I'm gonna give valentines to my friends. Bye, love you. Cool, bye, love you.
[Danielle Balocca]: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode, and as always, if you have feedback about this episode or ideas for future episodes, you can email medfordpod at gmail dot com. You can also subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Thanks so much for listening, and happy Valentine's Day. Guys, what's the name of the podcast? Medford Bites!
[-Ad9b17iUII_SPEAKER_03]: Medford Bites!