[Roberta Cameron]: We are calling to order the Medford Community Preservation Committee on Tuesday, October 14, 2025, 6.30 p.m. We are meeting hybrid with some of us being located in room 201 of Medford City Hall and some of us arriving via Zoom. Uh, the meeting is recorded and, um, there will be, uh, reporting will be made available as soon as possible afterwards. Yes. So our agenda this evening is, uh, first of all, I'm going to call roll so that we know who we have here in the committee members. I'll start with the people in room 201. Reg. Here.
[Reggie Graham]: Rosa.
[Roberta Cameron]: Ada. Here. And online we have Doug.
[Reggie Graham]: Here.
[Roberta Cameron]: Jeremy.
[Unidentified]: Here.
[Roberta Cameron]: Mylesha. Haley? Here. We know that we're missing Joan. Are we missing anyone else? Ari. And Ari. All right. So the agenda for this evening is to listen to presentations from half of our applicants for the FY26 funding round. We've received, what, like 12 applications, something like that? Yeah, 14. 14 applications. So more applications than we are able to schedule presentations in one evening. So what we're going to be doing is listening to presentations, give us an introduction, and maybe three to five minutes of of explanation of your project and then committee members will ask questions and that will give us information so that next month, actually in December, the committee can get back together again and start to process all of that information that we heard of this presentation and to deliberate. Is there anything else that I need to add before we get started with our presentations?
[Theresa Dupont]: Just one quick note. Nevermind, I did take it off. Sorry, there was an application that we were going to hear tonight. I thought I had left it on there, but nevermind. That's been postponed to November. So I think we're good. Okay. So should I go in the order? I think so, yes. Okay. And we have Veterans Affairs Director Veronica Shaw. Come on down. Do you want to come right up on here? Sure.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: And for that application information here, we just want to talk to you. Thank you. She's better than me, folks. You guys are both fantastic.
[Veronica Shaw]: All right, so I am Veronica Shaw. I am the Director of Veterans Services for the City. My office is in the Arctic tundra. So my request is for funding to fix the Angel of Victory and Peace that is in Oak Grove Cemetery. She is the fountain that overlooks the World War II section. There she is. And you have a picture of her. So I took this picture on Memorial Day. And it's significant because you see in the picture that she is full. Her fountain is full. She is pumping. However, it is all artificial because when they built the section behind her, the drainage system was destroyed. And so the angel is no longer a functioning fountain. So I just want to give you a little bit of background. So the angel was created and dedicated by Emilius Ciampa, who was a World War I veteran and a Medford resident. He was actually born in Italy and came over. He is also the same creator of the World War I statue that is in the World War I section. He also did some other plaques that are in the Chevalier Theatre. And he and actually Chevalier were in one together. So the angel actually stopped working more than 37 years ago. We don't have an exact date. We're basing that off of when Steve Brogan, who is the caretaker, when he started working, he's been there 37 years, he said she has not been working since he's been here. So what needs to happen for her is first, this is not a maintenance request. We're not asking for funds to keep her up. We're just asking for funds to get her working. Funds for maintenance will come from my budget and from DPW. So what we need are is the funds to actually get her insides working and the drainage and the plumbing outside of the common market. She needs a new filtration system and a new drainage system. And I have included in her packets the proposal from the company that we have found to do the work.
[Theresa Dupont]: And for those folks, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, go ahead. That is in the Dropbox meeting packet as well. So you can follow along there. I can drop the link in the chat if that's helpful.
[Veronica Shaw]: And so what the total, and you have Also, in my application, we're asking for a total of $193,000. That does include a contingency for any increase to materials that we did need. It is a significant amount, but this is sort of a one and done. We've got it from there. Once she is fixed, we will take over her maintenance every year. And so I think I really want to focus on why this is important. I know that when you People go into the cemetery and say, oh, it's a really pretty angel. But it's what she represents. For me as a veteran, when I walk in there, it's like seeing all of our veterans being recognized. She's there as a symbol. I have courage, sacrifice, and community pride. Champis was a Medford resident. He was a World War I hero. And he created this statue, this fountain, to honor all of us, all of the veterans from Medford. It's a legacy worth preserving. When she goes, there's nothing left in that cemetery to watch over our veterans. And she is, she's watching over them. She's a symbol of remembrance. For me, as part of my job is, I work alongside Steve to take care of the veterans' graves. And one of the things I spoke about several times over the past two years that I've been here is remembering our veterans. It's not a one day a year. It's an ongoing thing that we need to be remembering our veterans every single day. And having her working is just another way of people being able to drive by and say, yep, Those are our veterans. They're what make Medford proud. And it's a matter of respect. We come in there every year to do our ceremony, and I'm over there every month doing my walkthroughs. It's just a matter of respect. She hasn't worked in at least 37 years. A veteran created her for Medford, and she's not working. And so I am asking for the funds to get her working to make Medford proud and make our veterans proud.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. Thank you. Are there questions, comments from committee members?
[SPEAKER_05]: Kaylee. Thank you for that presentation. That was really nice. I live in the neighborhood, and I walk through the cemetery all the time. And I always notice that statue, and I always wonder why it's not working. So that was very informative. Did you get any other prices? Did you just get that one contractor?
[Veronica Shaw]: So we just got this one because it's a specialist that needs to do it. Yes, I could do. So this is a specialist that deals exclusively with restoration projects and water fixtures. So this was these people have worked with the city before on other project. So this was who Steve chose to go with.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And I mean, obviously there's a lot of value in going with the professional and somebody who knows it and will do the job right. I was just asking because it is pretty pricey. And as a public entity, you know, I don't know, is the city required to get other pricing or a couple of different proposals or?
[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, this would be a bidding. This would go to public bidding, anything over $100,000, actually over $50,000. Yeah, OK. Yeah. So this is just an estimate.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, perfect.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, no, this is a great project, obviously. I lived in Madrid a long time, never saw that found in action, and I'm definitely older than 35 years for sure. Is there a drawing or a photo that shows a little bit more detail? I didn't see it in the package. I see a very detailed description of the PVC and all the pieces, but sometimes a photo is worth a thousand words. Is there something there you could share?
[Veronica Shaw]: I have it in the back of your bag, yes.
[Veronica Shaw]: I can email it. It actually was included in with the photo that I used.
[Theresa Dupont]: OK. It was in with what Weston and Samson's did, like a schematic.
[Doug Carr]: OK. But that's just the pump. Does it show the whole assembly with the photo? There's no renderings, right, or this, or anything like that?
[Theresa Dupont]: No renderings.
[Veronica Shaw]: This is... Oh, I mean, I'm... You're going to have to jot that down for me. What are you asking for rendering stuff?
[Doug Carr]: I see, like, even an eye-level photo of what's there. But that's just the schematic, like, what it's going to look like.
[Veronica Shaw]: Well, you won't see anything. It's all going to be underground. So the inside of the fountain is inside the statue itself. So you won't, the average person is not going to visually see anything other than her working. They're going to have to dig underneath. So there's a section of the cemetery kind of catty corner to behind the statue where there's nothing there yet. And so they will have to dig a whole new drainage system behind her. And so you, at the end of the day, nobody should actually see anything. So are you saying like near the tree here is where? It should come, so these are all graves. Yes. And that was what happens when they, when they were digging these graves, they cut off her drainage to this down here. So they're gonna have to come up this way to avoid all of those Because what happens is when you pump water through granges, things come up that shouldn't be coming up. Fair. And so that's literally, they're going to have to drain her out here. OK.
[Roberta Cameron]: I'd like to ask, have you had an assessment of what repair is needed to the statue?
[Veronica Shaw]: That is what is in the proposal. if they know exactly what needs to be done, because they've looked at it before. OK. Thank you. Reg?
[Reggie Graham]: One of the things that I read in your application was that they don't do removal. So if they do have to get up underneath there and dig and so on and so forth, and there's excess gravel, dirt, whatever, rocks, what have you, they won't remove it. I would respectfully think that we would probably talk to whoever we get the bidding from, that stuff be removed, because it has to be cleaned up so that it looks like it does now. Absolutely.
[Veronica Shaw]: Rather than, you know, with a pile of... Well, the landscaping is included. They would landscape over it. But yes, whoever ends up doing the work, of course, would have to remove any debris.
[Reggie Graham]: And they didn't put that in their proposal, though. Just let me know. Okay.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Thank you. Are there other questions from committee members? All right, well, thank you very much for your presentation. Thank you very much.
[Roberta Cameron]: And I would remind everyone that there are snacks and invite our next presentation, which is Shiloh Baptist Church. I do appreciate your coming to sit at the table because that way the folks online can see you just as well as we in the room can see you.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Do you want to sit here, sir?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can stand for a while. Okay, up to you. That works too? Great to be back. We have had an opportunity to come before the committee on another effort, which is ongoing right now, which is the daycare center that's moving right along. And we appreciate all that you've done to make that work for us. Now, Shiloh started out on this mission before, repairing the windows on the east side and all around the entire church. So we have a preliminary survey that covers all that, and what today we want to emphasize is the eastern side of the church, which is this Palladium window that you see there. The Palladium window is probably a beautiful architectural feature that people see as they pass by the church, and it's probably one of the things that is most in danger of having leaves falling. We would like to make sure that the architect which we had on board before had surveyed this and resurveyed this item. And that actually would take some of that money and emphasize shoring or meeting the historical code to make sure the window stays in place as we gather more money to replace or to put the church plating window back into shape. because there's millions of dollars in terms of all of, if we were to do all the windows, but that eastern side is what we want to emphasize. And it also enhances the community. The people who live around there, walk by the church, and see the church, see this church as a negative, if the windows are not pretty, as well as any Religious features of this church, we'll make sure to accommodate either we place them with other stained glass that have no religious emphasis, or we pay for that ourselves. So we want to gather funds, additional funds beyond what we think that that will work, plus what you're contributing if you so find that we will be granted them. $150,000 to do this work. So that's the emphasis of this today, is to emphasize the Palladium window and the windows that are adjacent to that. I don't know if you have one. If this picture right here, probably down here. See these? There's two adjacent windows. But the main window is this feature, this architectural feature. On the more northerly side, that is in good order. compared to what it is to the other church windows. And on the other side, it's very—I haven't had some of that work done on it before, on the second floor. So we just want to put the church into a more environmentally positive feature, so that we don't have heat loss, as well as we keep the architectural feature of that church in good order for the local community to enjoy. Because the church does serve many other things besides a religious order. It's a gathering space. We're probably entertaining some other community efforts there. So that's my position right now.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you very much. Questions from the committee members? I would just like to comment that, oh, yes, Jeremy.
[Jeremy Martin]: Thank you. Thanks for the presentation. I'm just curious, I'm looking at the information provided, maybe this is a question for Teresa as well, but is there a quote from a contractor or any other documentation of the cost that's requested here? I'm sorry if I missed that when you were speaking.
[Theresa Dupont]: Yes, there should be in the meeting packet. We've got an estimate. It was from 2022. So to Mr. McIntyre's point, it needs to get kind of revisited for pricing, but we do have a sense of what the cost would be here.
[Jeremy Martin]: Maybe there's a technical glitch on my end, Teresa. I only see the application.
[Theresa Dupont]: Okay.
[Jeremy Martin]: I'd be curious to read through that.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yes. I know that when they prepared their very first application for us, I helped them gather, I think, a second, which would also be a couple of years old. But the architect's information might also help to provide an estimate of cost. Yeah, this was, I think, the one that they had gathered before I started working with them. So there might be another one in the first application. We could look through that material and see if there are some comparables.
[Doug Carr]: Is there a spreadsheet that shows the estimated current estimate costs, escalations from the last three years, and then contingency? I missed that too, if that's in there.
[Roberta Cameron]: I think one thing that we want to, okay so this itemizes by window because the church has 40 stained glass windows in it. It's really incredible and they're all beautiful and most of them have geometric designs that are not religious so they are, it would be possible to be able to put um, public funding into preserving them. But that's, that would be the, what it would cost to restore all of those windows is more, you know, it would require several phases of funding because that's a very big project. So I appreciate that their architect asked them to, um, prioritize That one, the palladium window and the ones on the east side of the sanctuary space. So that those are the windows that are the highest priority to address in phase 1. So, D1, C1 and D2. Yep.
[Theresa Dupont]: The rough cost for the C1, which was the palladium window, 56. And then the side light pieces are 48. And again, this is 2022. There is another price estimate to look at, but just to kind of get some sense of what pricing was three plus years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that would really have a tremendous improvement to the community's spirit. The congregation certainly would be benefiting, as well as its loss of heat would be much less. Yeah. So the number of things that follow environmentally as well as enhances the community who have put a significant amount of money in their own properties. So they'd like to follow. We have some great neighbors there.
[Roberta Cameron]: I would heartily encourage you to ask your neighbors to contribute to the fund for the windows.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had a QR that we started for separate funding and held that funding in place. We really haven't placed a lot of emphasis on that because we were doing with the other project that was working there. But that's coming along and it should be out of our here. by January 26. So that the church and its membership could make a strong emphasis, the trustee board would be particularly interested in making a main focus to raise more funds to supplement whatever we achieved here.
[Roberta Cameron]: I would love to see that because the only religious panels in the whole building are little tiny pieces within that Palladian window. So it would be really helpful to see the private match to this project specifically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, because currently we have something like three or four thousand dollars actually set aside for people who have walked by and contributed to the church, and the QR. And that was just basically not a very strong effort.
[Doug Carr]: Look, this is an incredibly important church architecturally. I'm on the historic commission. I know that we think this is a significant building. You mentioned something comparable to that in the application. So this is all heading in the right direction. The only question I have about this is that many, many times, if not most times, when I hear about historic buildings getting window restoration, usually there's an attempt to not just, because all there is, is this window. There's no outside window or inside window. There's this one plane of stained glass and lead between a zero degree day on the outside in the winter and a 68 degree heated interior for this project. Are we not, as part of this restoration, we're not putting anything on the to make the building more weather tight to make it, I guess, hopefully preserve it for longer. We've seen that on other window restoration projects, Roberta and Teresa, I think in Chevalier and maybe a couple of other ones. I know we did it in the Brooks Estate, but they were much smaller windows because we have interior storm windows there, which is often to maintain the exterior look. So is there anything under consideration for that aspect of this or is that simply not part of this project?
[SPEAKER_03]: inviting that we look at that much more farther, because we do have an architect on board who's actually very familiar with this church. So that would be helpful. He could certainly point out other alternatives, whether it's a storm window or some type that would be good inside. I've seen this operation where they put them on the outside and it causes more problems for condensation. But if it's in the interior and it's much better for heat loss, that's a number one thing for today. We want to get the heat loss done.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, I think without something on the inside, I think the heat loss will still be pretty significant, even with the important restoration work that's being done. I guess I'm encouraging you to think about that to see if there's maybe a little bit more investigation that can be done to see if these windows, again, the scale of these windows are very challenging, especially the arch ones. I mean, they must be, what, 12, 13 feet wide? I mean, they're pretty damn big. The smaller ones, I think, are simpler to tackle. Plus the round shape obviously has its own challenges, but I think it's worth just taking another look and seeing if there's more that can be done. It would cost more, because I don't think that's what your cost estimate is part, is assuming that there's anything on the inside of these windows, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, at the present time, I concur with what you're thinking, and so that's invited. and we would talk with the architect about that feature.
[Roberta Cameron]: That would be great. And if you could confirm with Teresa, after you talk with the architect, to ask if the architect has a more current estimate of the cost of restoration for those windows on that section, and to what the architect recommends for weather protection. And so if we have an updated budget before we meet in December, we want to make sure that we're recommending an amount of funding that's sufficient for you to complete the work if the funding is recommended. So if you're able to make sure that you have the scope that you need and the cost estimate that you need for that scope. We will use your new budget to consider the recommendation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: I'll give you a call tomorrow. Maisha?
[Myisha Majumder]: Yeah, I just wanted to add one thing. I'm curious, I don't know if anyone knows, but MassSafe has the rebate program for residential buildings. And I wonder if the church might be able to utilize something from that for commercial buildings as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course. Well, sorry, but I'm sorry, I didn't understand. That's all right. But what was the question?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
[Myisha Majumder]: I can repeat what I said. Mass Save has residential rebates for window installation and window replacement. I think that they have similar programs for larger buildings that are commercial and non-profit. That might be something to look into as well that can help incentivize or rebate any upgrades to the church. We'll follow up on that.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah. Maybe the architect would also know how to find out about Mass Save rebates.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[Theresa Dupont]: Appreciate it. Thank you both. All right. Get home safe. Thank you.
[Roberta Cameron]: All right. And next on our projects this evening is Riverside Plaza Shade Improvements Additional Trunch.
[Theresa Dupont]: We are joined by City Planner Amanda Centro from the Office of Planning Development Sustainability. Amanda.
[Amanda Centrella]: You have the floor. Thank you. Hi, everyone. So I'm Amanda. I'll start with a question. Who here is familiar with the Riverside Shade Improvement Project that was before the CPC last year? If you could raise your hands. OK, so a chunk of you and maybe a few not. So I'll go over a couple of things. But is it OK if I share my screen? Yes, I believe I just made you a co-host. Amazing. All right, let's take a look here. Okay, are we seeing my screen hopefully?
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: We are. Great.
[Amanda Centrella]: So the Riverside Plaza Improvement Project was before the CPC last year, and we were awarded funding as well as a PARC, P-A-R-C, state grant. So just to orient us a little bit, This is the plaza. It's in the heart of Medford Square. It was renovated in, I think, 2018, and it's a great, well-loved, used space, except that there isn't a lot of existing shade within the actual plaza area, or patio area, is what I've been calling it, during the hottest parts of the year. And so it becomes somewhat unusable during peak season in the summer, which is too hot. And so the way that folks tend to use this space, if they're using it on hot days, is to drag some of the mobile chairs and tables under the adjacent lawn area where there's some existing mature trees, which works. But there are some barriers to doing that. It's not an accessible. area that's just, you know, at this point used to be lawn, but is now dirt patching tree roots. And so we thought that we could do some targeted improvements to this area to make it more usable and more climate resilient. So what you all saw last year when we applied is we had these sort of sets of shade sails over here, a deck from the accessible route here with a ramp, and some light bollards that were an ad alternate, so an option if we had the budget for bidding. And it's not actually showed on this picture, but we included in the scope a water bottle filling station. Um, and we went out to bid with this in the spring and unfortunately the bids came back much higher than anticipated. So we had budgeted this around $300,000 and the lowest bid was $600,000. Uh, so. We regrouped a bit, met with the bidders to understand what was driving those costs, and also met with our other grant funder, the park grant administrator, to understand what their parameters were for maintaining that funding if we were going to make any adjustments. I'm approaching you all today with a revised design scope as well as a request for some contingency funding. The scope still includes shade sails, it adds metal shade umbrellas, a smaller deck footprint but still accessible, a tree relocation, and we maintain that water fountain Bottle Filler station. So here is the revised design scope. You can see here there's existing seating in these two areas. And one of the parameters given by the park grant was that we shade the same areas that we had originally proposed. So we're proposing now to have two shade sails. I've got some pictures to show you that go into the landscaped area over here. we relocate an existing tree from here into this southern portion of the patio, which actually kind of better situates it for more optimally shading the patio. This is in the south part of it. And then we have two commercial outdoor surface mounted shade umbrellas to further provide shade to the seating, and a shortened deck footprint, as well as the water bottle filling station over here. So that part hasn't changed. So I can give you a little bit of context as to why we chose to make these adjustments. One of the things that we learned from Bitters is that in the original design, we had a number of posts for the shade sails that were going into the patio area, like where the pavement was. And we also needed to relocate two existing light posts that were in that patio area to different spots so that they could fit the whole shade system. And each of these posts also have footings. So it's actually a significant amount of disruption to the paving here. And so bidders were making very conservative estimates as to the amount of pavement that they'd have to replace, the risk of damage to the papers in that area. So whatever we could do to minimize disruption to the actual patio. it would help us recuperate some costs. The tree over here, I'll add that while it also benefits us by allowing us to put a shade sail here, but we realize that there's this large piece of ledge just under the surface in this area. For the long term health of the tree, it's probably not the best spot to locate it anyway, because it's sort of surrounded and bounded on all sides by pavement or by hard structure. So we think that it may thrive better over here anyway, while also providing more optimal shade. I'll add one last thing about the design, which is that it will be out to bid as of tomorrow morning. So this is all in the base bid, and as a bid alternate, we wanted to have the opportunity to maybe pay for the larger deck footprint. So it will just depend on what we see as far as bidding interest and budget, but that option is still maintained by the bid alternate. just a couple reference photos. I'll collapse this. I don't know if you guys see my little double screen here. So this is the composite decking and little kick rail, which was a recommendation from our disability specialist, Nicholas Karenge in the city. So just as an example of what this might look like, as well as the water bottle filling station, which we have iterations of this in Carr Park and McGlynn. It's a product we're familiar with. Oops, sorry. And then an example of the metal surface mounted commercial umbrellas and the swoopy shade sail. And there's a drawing here to give you a sense of scale. So it arcs over the plaza, and there would be two of these. And just a little refresher on funding. So we received a park grant for just shy of $200,000. We received CPA funding last year for $144,000. And this ask here, oh, gosh, I'm sorry. of $125,000 is, I will full disclosure, a little bit hand wavy. I wanted to preserve the opportunity to come before you guys to present this and request additional funding. It is my hope that when we close the bids on November 5, maybe we will not need to apply for funding and we can rescind this application. But and so I will have that information to you all before your November 18th meeting. But I suppose just in the interest of keeping the door open and the conversation going, I thought it important to come before you guys. And that is in part because this project does have a completion deadline because of the park grant. It must be done by June 1 of next year. I think this is actually a really good time of year for us to be bidding this project. It's right before the holidays start to kick in and as contractors are trying to schedule the next um, season and the duration of the work shouldn't be very long, a month or two. Um, so that, you know, if they start in the spring, uh, that should be sufficient time to finish by June. Um, but, uh, some of that, or that is definitely dependent on whether we get, um, a successful bid this time around. And so having the flexibility and ability to be nimble and just sort of keeping a couple of different irons in the fire to allow us to do that is part of why I'm before you guys today.
[Roberta Cameron]: So I'll pause there. Just a couple of procedural points. First, thank you for showing the timeline. do you need to request expedited decision so that you're able to have a funding commitment in hand when you, I mean, we won't be able to have a decision by November 5th, but we could have a decision by the end of November. Would that be, do you need to have an expedited decision?
[Amanda Centrella]: Yes, thank you for asking that. So an expedited decision, should we need or should we continue with our application before the CPC, would be very helpful. It's part of why I had asked Teresa if I could come before you guys in this October session, even though the bid hasn't opened and won't be closed yet, just so that you all can be familiar with the project and kind of mulling it over. And I think that, you know, If we need to, end of November into December would be viable. But I think certainly before the end of this year would be very helpful for securing that contract should we be proceeding with this application.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. The timing is awkward, but I think it might be manageable for us. Jeremy, I'll recognize you in one moment. The other comment that I wanted to make was that even if you don't need the funding, I think we need to keep this application in the stream to approve a change in scope, since this iteration of the project is significantly different from what you have presented. when you originally awarded the funds last year? Understood, yes. Jeremy?
[Jeremy Martin]: Thank you, and thanks for that great presentation, Amanda. I'm curious to know, have any, in this kind of VE process, have any other alternatives been explored that didn't rely on a structured integral shade element, or was there?
[Amanda Centrella]: Yeah, yeah. So I had to meet with the administrator for the park grant, which is the other funding that we received for this project, to understand what parameters they had for maintaining their funding. And one of the parameters was that we shade the same amount of area that we had originally proposed in our first design. And they did have a strong preference for having shade sails as some element of the design. just as a durable and, I guess, aesthetic option. So we looked at and kind of vetted with them and included also Teresa as part of these conversations to understand what other types of shade we could do, whether it's more robust tree plantings. We looked at different types of umbrellas. Landed on these options, um, for, for those, uh, to, uh, existing seating areas kind of after throwing around a couple of ideas and considering budget, um, I may have mentioned this already, but another piece of avoiding disruption to the patio area, we were a little bit limited to trying to use the landscape areas for sighting posts and things like that. So did that answer your question?
[Jeremy Martin]: It does, yes. Thank you. Just so I understand, I see in looking at street view, it looks like on the south side of the plaza, there are some existing integral benches or tables that are built into the pavement. Are those replaced by the umbrella picnic tables? I may have misunderstood that.
[Amanda Centrella]: Oh, no, that's a fair question. So the picture that I showed you of those disc umbrellas was a little misleading, because it showed attached to it a table and chair set. But actually, they can come separate from those table and chairs, which I think is our preference, because we have existing seating there, and we can anchor it to the ground in this case.
[Jeremy Martin]: Good. Thank you for clarifying.
[SPEAKER_11]: Doug?
[Doug Carr]: I mean, this looks great. Obviously, I voted for the last version, which would have been nice, but this is actually still pretty good. And I think the sales are nice, dramatic flair. I think it will punch up that space, make it a little bit of a feature. So I think it's a good decision. It's a good balance between design and the functionality that you're looking for. So I think that's all good. I think There's a way with the contract and the sequence that Roberto was describing to, you know, no one's going to start building until March or April anyway, right? You actually have plenty of time. You need to line people up obviously. But I was hoping there was a way with the folks in City Hall where you could, you know, if you need money from us, whatever, whether it's the full 125 or some fraction thereof, that we could still figure it out. Because as you probably know, we have I don't know, we have a lot more requests than we do dollars. To me, this is a big priority because I think anyone who goes to Medford Square could benefit from this. There's a lot of people who could benefit, so I see this as a really good priority. But I'm hoping we can not rush it if we don't need to. Just by the way, how we award, what the time award is, and knowing that they're not going to build for at least five months from now.
[Amanda Centrella]: That's so valid, yes. I think what I'll do after this is meet with our procurement staff just to understand how we could structure that and build in a bit more flexibility. And you're right, that building certainly won't, unless, I don't know, it would be a rare thing, I think, for a contractor to get an award and build this fall for this project. So yeah, I think that we can we can make something work.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, it's a procurement language thing more than anything else, I think. Thank you.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thoughts, questions? I had a thought that came to me, which was I heard words this evening like aesthetic and dramatic referring to the shade sales. I wonder if we could lean into that by maybe working with the Arts Commission and inviting the arts community to personalize the sales and kind of be able to use that as an opportunity to bring in our public art element into Medford Square.
[Amanda Centrella]: That's really fun. So maybe customizing the sails that are the canvas sails or whatever material they are on the shade structures, having that be kind of a public conversation.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah, just a thought.
[Amanda Centrella]: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great idea. Let me think a bit on that and talk with our designer. But I feel like we could have a cool community conversation this fall and winter about what design and colors should be on there.
[Jeremy Martin]: Since we're opining, I'll just say that I think that I'd love to see more trees planted here to create shade as a priority. And I do think that these sales can be dramatic and certainly effective, but they have a lifespan. And in 10 years, we'll be either replacing them or wishing they weren't there potentially. We've had it happen in other projects. And so a tree will be there for a hundred years. And that's how, I know you've got a design and that's what we're focused on, but I think that there are other things that could be done. more cost effectively. Thanks.
[Amanda Centrella]: That's a valid point, Jeremy. And we've heard sort of different opinions about more trees in that area. I think possibly an advantage of this design is that we're making use of existing tree canopy. In the adjacent lawn area that is already used by folks and so creating accessible path there and then the southern area of the patio will be shaded primarily by trees, and they'll have the umbrellas there as well. And that can be removed if they become, you know. duplicative, and the shade sails are kind of an interim solution because those trees that are planted in the southern area will take time to mature. That probably doesn't address all of your feedback, but yeah, I figured I'd offer.
[Jeremy Martin]: Yeah, I appreciate that. And the deck under the trees is commendable and a feature that I like very much, a great way to use that space and protect those trees. So thank you for that. And keeping that as part of the project, I think, is really important.
[Doug Carr]: Is that composite decking under the trees? Is that what your image showed?
[Ada Gunning]: Yes.
[Doug Carr]: OK, good. It looks good. That's a good design.
[Ada Gunning]: I do wonder about future patio projects like this that the city undertakes, whether there's opportunities to just preserve trees that are already there or do plantings amidst the patio, kind of thinking about the McGlynn playground and how a lot of old trees are preserved in there. But anyway. could address some of these issues in a future project.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. Thank you, everyone. And I think that covers the Riverside Plaza Shade Improvement Project. Thank you, Amanda. Thanks, Amanda. Thanks, Amanda. Next up is the Blaystead Park digital scoreboard. And while we transition, I just wanted to point out again, a few of you just came in the room, there's some snacks and water on top of the file cabinet that's for us. Yeah.
[Theresa Dupont]: Coach. Coach Oz, step on up. Sure. So this is a camera. Okay. Um, you can just talk and look like that's, I mean, the folks online only ever see this side of my face. So feel free to see, Stan, however you're comfortable.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, absolutely. I see that. So, um, thank you again for inviting me and giving me the opportunity. My name's Orazio Azzarello. I am the head baseball coach in Medford High School since 2021. I've been in the program since 2012 as an assistant coach and also a graduate of Medford High School, showing my age in 1995. So I grew up in Medford, and the reason for me to be here tonight is to have a digital school board at Placid Park, Bombo Catch Field. great location for a baseball field. That is our high school diamond that's shared by the city. And we're looking to see if we can add some value to the field. If you've been down there, it's a beautiful area. And it's just, it's missing some parts. And I think a sport board at the field would be something that the city would enjoy, the fans, the families, the parents, the community. There's a lot of history. in Medford, especially with Medford baseball. Next month, we are inducting the 1983 baseball team who went undefeated. Last team that ever went undefeated in a regular season, they went 20-0. So it's funny because those people still ask about the field and what's being done. And I think this is a great opportunity for the community to come together. Also, you will see revenue being generated here. because the field will now be rented probably a bit more once people see a scoreboard. I'm part of a lot of amateur baseball leagues during the summer. And with other cities and towns, you see that they rent out their field almost every single day or night because of lights or a scoreboard, which is, I think, great for the city because that money is now coming in and you're generating some revenue. But we have spoken to a couple of vendors We met with them down at the park to get some ideas on where we could put that scoreboard. The ask is for $110,000 for the scoreboard. That is one example right there that Teresa has put up. We have several others. We just want to make sure that the kids are getting something out of this. They work their tails off to play down at that field. And I think as a younger kid growing up, you always want to be able to play on the high school field. And the high school field was kind of the top of the line where you want to be playing. And if you have a nice scoreboard or dugout or a new field, it's, it makes you want to play a little bit harder on that field. Um, my past team, we just won the greater Boston league this past spring, first time in 10 years. And, uh, the parents came to me and said, is there anything we can do? I placed it, uh, just on one of that group and really kind of, bring some history back to Medford. I see a lot of scoreboards being placed at the Little League level, but at the Big Diamond, there is no scoreboard at any Big Diamond field in Medford. And that's Hickey Park, Morrison Park, Barry Park, and Placid Park, where if you're a high school player, you're going to play there. And I think when you get on the field, you want to be able to say, wow, that scoreboard belongs to us. It's home of the Mustangs. Also to honor Momopet Field. Bill Momopet was a former Red Sox player who grew up in Medford, helped out to the community. And I think having his name on it would be grateful as well. So that is our idea. I think if we can put something together, we would love to work with you. And we've also even talked about raising money if we had to do that. I think the community would come together to try to put this forward. at the park. It's been asked by a lot of people, and I think that if we come together as a community, we can get it done.
[Ada Gunning]: Thank you very much.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Questions?
[Ada Gunning]: Is there lighting at that field right now?
[SPEAKER_19]: There is not.
[Ada Gunning]: Okay. Is that like a future project you have in mind?
[SPEAKER_19]: If you want to say future, yeah, absolutely. It would be a great idea to have that. And again, I talked about the revenue piece of it. That would help with revenue because being involved with baseball during the summer, the fields get rented out. And I think if we sat down with the department that rents out fields, we could really help out there. But that's something in the future if we decided that.
[Reggie Graham]: Well, I think this project is honorable, to be honest with you, and it's probably about never had a playset park. And I do remember playing at a playset when I was young, when we used to have round-robin tournaments at the various fields. We went to Carr Park. We went to Hickey Park. We went to Barry Park. We went to Morrison Park. We went to Duggar Park. We went to a playset park. Never at night. Okay? So we don't have lights. We don't have a scoreboard. If you go to any high school in this immediate area, any GBL field, every GBL field has a scoreboard. I believe it's embarrassing to say the least that Medford does not have a scoreboard so that when you go to the game, if you come to the game at the end of the first inning, you have to ask, are we winning? or are we loose? So, I am definitely in favor of this proposal, but that's neither here nor there. In regards to the lights, we'd love to have lights there. So, as you can see up in the Edgeley field, you know, the soft field gimmick and money handler fits. Okay, it's a revenue generating process to put lights in and then start to collect from the various teams. Recently, we had the stone that was put up for Fred Knox. And at that time, we had a presentation of the stone. And it was quite exciting. And there was everybody that was in baseball for the past 35 years or so, maybe 40 years, maybe 50. I don't even know. But they were very disappointed that A, we didn't have a scoreboard, and B, we didn't have any facilities. So if we can work on at least the scoreboard, it would probably be It will relieve some of the anxiety that baseball teams have when they come and get off the bus.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I'd like to add that we're probably the only high school team that does not have a scoreboard. All the other sports have a scoreboard. And I think that, again, it's revenue generated. And also, the scoreboard that we're looking to try to get would also allow us to have sponsors on it.
[SPEAKER_18]: sponsors can be able to donate money as well. But hopefully we can make this work.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thanks. Question from Jeremy.
[Jeremy Martin]: Hey coach, thanks for the presentation. Um, I see that we have several different quotes for different, I'm guessing variations of the scoreboard from you. Can you just point me to the one that is reflected in the request here? Cause ones for like way more than the request and the other two are, are under what's included. Thank you.
[SPEAKER_19]: There is several, uh, quotes and that's due to because of a solar, The first option, it would be solar. If that's not possible, then we would have to dig, and we would have to dig a trench. So again, that would come down to, I know that the price is a little different, but we wanted to get some quotes out there to see, get a rough idea of what we wanted to do. But that is the reason why there's different quotes in terms of the solar, and if we don't go solar, we would have to dig.
[Jeremy Martin]: Is there one of those quotes that you use to develop the $110,000 request?
[SPEAKER_19]: There is.
[Theresa Dupont]: So there is. Let me share a screen right now. So that $110,000 is really coming from the trenching that will likely be needed here. I took that one on and I'm still trying to work with DPW to see what we might be able to do in-house versus going out to contract. If it goes to contract, it's probably a $35,000 to $40,000 job. We're looking at a scoreboard of 61,000. Once we add that trenching in, add a contingency, that's where we landed at the 110,000 number. I'm happy to elaborate on that if people have more questions. This one's just that it's a little mushy because I can't, I haven't gotten a firm answer on whether or not DPW can assist. So, and that's the difference between $0 and $30,000, unfortunately.
[Jeremy Martin]: That's helpful, Teresa. Thank you. So the file that says 1606 ETN, that's the one you've got up there now?
[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah. Yes. Yes. And that's the one with the pitch count. There's also one with the sponsorship.
[Jeremy Martin]: All right, thank you.
[Theresa Dupont]: Yes. So there are a couple of different iterations. There's one with the sponsorship, which would really be that revenue generator. But it's really a matter of, can we trench? If not, then can we do solar? And solar was reflected in this, if I'm not mistaken.
[Jeremy Martin]: It looks like one of the other quotes has a solar component for about $5,800.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was thinking if you could speak more on the sponsor information, is it possible for like a sponsor to finance any of this? Like, I don't know, like, sometimes you see like Coca Cola or something and we're having like a huge name. I mean, obviously, there's pros and cons to that. I'm just saying like, if you had a sponsor, be part of this, would that bring the price down? I have no idea how sponsorship works. So if you had any more information on that aspect.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I mean, my idea of sponsorship would be contracts where they would have it for, let's say, a five-year commitment. And then we would be able to change that sponsorship. Obviously, if someone goes out of business, you don't want to have that name there. But that's how I would look at it. If we did it finance, that would be probably a negotiation between the city and the business.
[Roberta Cameron]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Thanks, Doug.
[Doug Carr]: Uh, yeah, coach thing. This is a, this is a great project. I'm looking forward to seeing this. This project done this, this place does actually have a much deeper history than I think most people realize. I think this was the 1st official park in the city's history because it went from. Within 20 or 30 years from Brooks family farmland to what we see now, at least an initial version of it. So it goes back, I think, literally to, I think, the 1st park in the city that I believe it was called Brooks playstate back in more than 100 years ago. I think. Anyway, it's the question I have, and again, I think I'm a huge, huge fan of this. It helps a lot of kids. My brother played for Neffert High back in the day as a baseball team. Is the opposite, is the reason there are no lights is because the neighbors on Playstead Road don't want them?
[SPEAKER_19]: I've been hearing that for many years, and I think that is the reason, but I'm not sure if that's to confirm that. I have knocked on those doors. But I will say the lights now are totally different from 25, 30 years ago. Obviously, you could control them from your phone, and the lights are just on the field, and they can turn off. They're not on all night long. And I really believe that men's missing the opportunity of bringing some revenue for that field. That field gets used, but only by the high school and maybe some of the youth sports. There are so many club teams and men's leagues out there that Medford would be used, I'd say, six out of seven times during the week.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah. I think it's a different battle for a different day, but I definitely think it's worth revisiting with a new generation, frankly. Sure. But I do support this, and I thank you for your presentation.
[SPEAKER_19]: Thank you very much.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thanks. I actually have a comment to Doug's last question and a few questions of myself. The subject of lights at this field was actually an application that came to us in our very first funding round for CPA and was a subject that ended up shaping our application. process because the request came from a citizen group, an athletic group, directly to the CPC without going through the city channels first. And so the city was not aware that there was an application for lighting at the field until it came to us. And so After some controversy, we created an application process that ensured that requests like that would go through the city rather than directly to us first, because we aren't the arbiters of whether there should be lighting at a place like Deadfield. That's really a decision that I think should be a consensus before it comes to the CPC. on the subject of lighting at the field and just general future improvements. I imagine that even if it's not in the next five years, down the road, we might be thinking about larger improvements to the field. What is the condition of this field right now? Is this field always playable? Is it in rough condition?
[SPEAKER_19]: I will say that DPW does the best they can with what they have. Last year, Um, we did fix the mound area. Uh, we did not play at the field for the first month because the weather, um, and they were fixing the field. Um, I would have to say, yeah, we definitely need a new field. I would, I would say that. Um, and I think some people would agree with me with that. Um, if you've been down there and walk the field, the fence is not in great shape and someone could get hurt if someone actually runs into the fence and gets pulled by, you know, a bar or something. But, um, Yeah, that's another thing that we can talk about. But I want to make sure that we can get approved for the scoreboard and we can work through that.
[Roberta Cameron]: So I know there's an open space and recreation plan that's going to be coming up soon and that things like this might be in the open space and recreation plan to make overall improvements. But where this comes back to your specific request right now is Lighting trench solar option would the eventual future desire to put. to dig a trench to put lighting or to use a solar-powered scoreboard, are those interrelated considerations? Do we want to make an investment now that we want to go in a different direction in the future? Are they compatible?
[SPEAKER_19]: That's a great question. That's something that we would have to come together and say, what direction do we want to go? The good news is if somehow we did get a new field here in the future with lights, the swath can always be moved.
[Roberta Cameron]: But if you like put in a trench, can the trench be moved? Or do you, is the solar a waste if you're going to bring power to the site anyway?
[SPEAKER_17]: Those are good questions that we can definitely take back and ask to the vendor to see what they can do if that happens in the future.
[SPEAKER_18]: But yeah, I mean, Ideally, yeah, it would be great to get a new field with lights and a scoreboard all at once. I don't think that's likely. That's why we're starting with a scoreboard and see where we go from there. But we can definitely work together with that.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yes, I always love to be able to, like, there are all of these different elements of the whole Placeton Park area that we've been asked to address piecemeal, basketball courts, tennis courts, now the baseball scoreboard. And, you know, like, It's sort of doing a park renovation in phases, which is really efficient, but I'd like to be able to think about the big picture and know where we're going so that each phase is contributing to the whole.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think that's a great idea because I also think about a press box and facilities that Reggie said. If we host a tournament game there, and another team is coming to our field, there's no bathrooms. So we say, we've got to find a place somewhere. I don't know where to go. But you don't want to do that. We have a facility, we have a press box, we have a scoreboard. Right now, I think we're just behind in times with that. So that's why we're starting here. But I like your thinking.
[Reggie Graham]: Just to a point, one of the things that has occurred on my watch in the park commission is that we've done Playstead Park, we've done several other parks. There is electricity at Playstead now. So I'm a little curious about this trench thing. I mean, I guess the trench would go from the existing lights, which are now at the basketball court, there's three or four lights at the basketball court. So there's already an existing trench that goes to that point. I would imagine that they would probably put the scoreboard on the track side of left field so that everybody can see it because nobody sits on that side of the field to be honest with you. So I would imagine that it would be a small trench that would be necessary to be dug if we went with electric. But if we went with solo, it doesn't matter. Okay. And so, you know, when you're looking at when you're talking about piecemeal, well, yeah, you're piecemealing it, but it's a necessary evil to have a scoreboard so that you can know what's going on, on the field.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah, I mean, my calculation is not so much. Do we need a scoreboard or not? But really, like, how do we make sure that this investment lines up the next investment that we're going to be asked to make so that everything is going to, in the end, work together?
[Reggie Graham]: You know, you mentioned the condition of the field. Last year there was an investment made for the infield and the mound area and so on and so forth. They put in new grass within the diamond and so on and so forth. There is a company in Rhode Island that would actually have done a much better job on that particular field because it has a leveling component to its procedures and would have eliminated a lot of the holes that are in the outfield. We've talked about this in the past. I understand what you're saying about piecemeal, but when your resources are limited, you do what you can when you can.
[Ada Gunning]: Exactly. I saw a question from Anna. I know we're out of time, but I'm just looking at this neighborhood and I'm imagining how just knowing how this part of town feels about change. And I'm just imagining how these neighbors would feel about like facilities, lights, renting the fields out every night, more people coming for out of town games because there's all these facilities and whatever. And I'm like having a hard time picturing that flying in that specific community. And it just makes me wonder, like, Is Pleistead the future, like obviously it's the past of where Medford baseball has always been, but is that also the future or is there a consideration of moving it somewhere that's like not in a neighborhood and especially a neighborhood that hates change?
[SPEAKER_19]: I have heard that.
[Ada Gunning]: We are not alterable in West Medford. Just to put that out there, okay? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Not that the whole neighborhood hates change, but many individuals in that neighborhood dislike change greatly.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, again, that would come down to what the city decides. I know that they talked about maybe a new Medford High School. Those are those are great questions.
[Ada Gunning]: And like, if that were the case, is a scoreboard something is where I was thinking like projecting the future is a scoreboard of physical structure that could potentially be moved to a new Medford.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[Ada Gunning]: A new location. Yes. OK. That was the only thing. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm having a really hard time picturing this becoming like a destination. Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_19]: It's a great area because there's so much land there, but you're right, it's a neighborhood. But I think wherever you go, I think you're going to run into a neighborhood. But again, that's future. We're starting with something with a school board. We'll see how we get it.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah, and that's why we have the open space and recreation plan to answer those big community questions. Sure. I just had one last thing I know, Teresa, we need to move on. One last thing is you had mentioned earlier fundraising. And I wonder how, like, tell me more about fundraising. What could we do to like maybe make CPA funding a match to what the community is willing to give for?
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I mean, it was thought between the parents and some business owners where if we did some kind of GoFundMe page, let's see what the community would raise. And then maybe the difference or you guys match what we raise. I just, I think the community would help out in that situation if we had to go that route.
[SPEAKER_18]: It was an idea. We haven't put anything together. We wanted to do this first and see where we stood, but it is an idea that we could try to do that.
[Roberta Cameron]: So, just like you were here, we had a previous conversation about private funding. if it would be possible for you to maybe set a goal for private funding and let Teresa know before we have our deliberations in December, you know, we might be able to consider a budget reflecting what you think you can gain from private funding, because that would be really helpful. That would make funding available for some of these other really important projects. that we're seeing on a very, very tight budget this year.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely. Great.
[Theresa Dupont]: So we have a couple months to game plan?
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, absolutely. The plan to have this completed, if it does pass, was to try to have it done before the season, which is the spring in 2020, which is March or April.
[SPEAKER_18]: Speaking to the vendors, they can do it even if the weather's terrible.
[SPEAKER_19]: If we didn't get an agreement and approved, they can work on it right away, so.
[Roberta Cameron]: Our timeline, we should be able to make a decision in the winter. Perfect.
[SPEAKER_17]: Yeah. Any other questions? We're good. Thank you.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you very much for your time.
[SPEAKER_19]: Thanks.
[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, I'll give you a call. I'm calling everybody tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: And the next coach, just so you're aware, Valerie did hop on.
[Theresa Dupont]: So hi, Valerie. Just wanted to let you know that. I told her I was dying earlier.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Perfect. All right. So up next, we have the Slenderman and White from Foxhole. We're only going to have her come on up here. This report is online as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. You don't need to say it if you don't want to. It seems to be the popular thing to do.
[Theresa Dupont]: That's the report. I had no idea. I just walked in at the same time. Oh, yes. I was very hurt by that. All righty.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. You're welcome. Introduce yourselves, just a few minutes, tell us about your project, and then I'll ask you questions.
[SPEAKER_15]: Great. So first of all, thank you very much for having us here and for considering our application. So I'm Kevin Simon. This is my wife, Hilary White. We moved to Medford a little under two years ago, settling here. The house we bought is a fairly historic house in the Warren Simmons Historic District in West Medford, where our Calculus is probably the second oldest house in the immediate neighborhood that was built by the person who first lived there and the historic nature of the house. The community of West Medford brought us out here, and that's something that we're really excited about. We've been working on restoring the house ourselves. We've got one-year-old now, And so it's been a handful doing that restoration, much of the work ourselves. But in addition to that, we have a really cool structure, the carriage house. I've been told that it's one of the sort of like there's maybe about a dozen similar structures that are connected to lots like this. And so we have been really interested, since we were drawn to the historic structure of the house and the property, we would really love to find a way to preserve this. And so through and restoring. And so through that process, we've also been seeing the conversation around affordability in Medford. It's a really big topic, making more affordable housing. I'm probably not going out too far on a limb to say that West Medford in particular has been a unique neighborhood in this conversation around change and adding density. And so we see here as a structure that adds invisible density with off-street parking in a way that also restores some of Bedford's historical structures. So, Hilary, can I tell you about the plan?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so the project is going to take place over two phases. The first is around stabilizing the structure. The pictures on the previous slide, those are the current condition of the building. Candidly, the last owners didn't take good
[SPEAKER_04]: care of it.
[SPEAKER_08]: It was a structure that was actually, they wanted to tear down, but because the home is in the Martin Simmons historic district, it was able to save the structure, which is pretty amazing story. And I think really speaks to sort of the relevance of this as an asset. So there does need to be work around stabilizing the structure first to make sure that we really preserve it for future generations. But we think there's this opportunity to expand it into the one bedroom unit on that second floor. One thing that's really unique about this building is the footprint is quite large already. It's 600 square foot. And so that means we can have a 600 square foot apartment on this second level, which would include a full kitchen, a separated dedicated bedroom, a bathroom with the, there's gonna be a plan for a washer and dryer in there, as well as a private roof deck, so private outdoor space. We'll maintain the two-car garage on the bottom. And if you go to the next slide, This is a markup of what the outside of the structure will look like. Hopefully it'll look quite familiar because we're really intending to really keep this historical integrity of the structure as much as we can. The only real sort of changes to the exterior that we'd be making would be for the livability of that one bedroom unit. So adding out the dormer and then some windows on that second floor. Then on the last slide, Just to really be transparent on how we see this project fitting in and supporting the CPC's objectives is really around two areas. The first is around this additional affordable housing and the second around the restoration of a historical structure that's really sort of becoming, you know, an extinct, excuse me, breed in the city of Medford and Boston area. But on the additional affordable housing front, We just talked about West Medford being a really unique area, but thinking creatively about how can we bring in additional housing in a way that doesn't really change the deal of the neighborhood. We're using the existing footprint of an existing structure to be able to bring in a new housing unit that we think that there's potential to support either a low or medium income household. And then on the historic preservation front, you know, a lot of things I've touched on, this building has been neglected, but really seen it as a rare asset that's worth preserving, something that, you know, the city has intervened on before, and so continuing to make sure that it's available for future generations. And I think the last thing that we wanted to share is, you know, we recognize this is a little bit of a different application, is my understanding that you guys typically see, So we appreciate you guys considering it. We think that there's kind of this existential question facing the Boston area around affordable housing. How do you build more in places that people really want to live? How do you make it affordable? And we think we have an opportunity here to really thread that needle while also preserving a historic structure. So really happy to have that conversation with you to figure out, can we make this work? Thank you.
[Unidentified]: Please.
[Ada Gunning]: Thanks for coming and presenting this. I'm curious what led to the decision to preserve the two-car garage versus create a space that could support more than just one bedroom. I don't know if that's part of the actual building's structural limitations or... I think it's a mixture.
[SPEAKER_15]: We like the idea of having extra space of the two-car garage. We don't plan on necessarily using it as a two-car garage. workshop, so there's personal reasons why we wanted to keep it as is. Also, the cost of one unit, the proposition of restoring the structure and adding one unit was pretty expensive. I don't think we don't have the pockets to create two structures, and we also have a structure with two units, and so that's kind of the reasoning there. I think also it would substantially change have garage doors or carriage doors or anything like that on it? Good question, though.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Other questions? Haley?
[SPEAKER_05]: Roberta, did this qualify? I mean, just talking offhand, is this actually something that we could hypothetically approve?
[Roberta Cameron]: I see that it qualifies in two areas. It qualifies in preserving the exterior, making exterior restoration of this carriage house that's visible from the street. For historic preservation alone, we would have a question of whether it would be a priority to preserve a privately owned residence. That is something that has come up in the past and the committee has either deemed it not to be a priority or we have put requirements or conditions on a project that homeowners felt were not worth the grant. But the other part of this project of creating an affordable unit That is very much one of our objectives is to create new affordable units. So, as an affordable housing project, anything that creates this housing unit and makes it permanently affordable. Would be eligible, but that permanent affordability is something that there is a, there's a guideline that we would have to follow to establish that permanent affordability with a long term deed restriction and and we could probably use city resources to help carry out the responsibilities of the of the deed restriction.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, so I mean, this is like a very going to be it would be extremely involved process for the homeowner. I mean, it kind of opens the doors to like, who would be doing the leasing? Like, who would be, you know, receiving the rental income, I would assume, right? I mean, is this going to be deed restricted for affordability, like in perpetuity? And then, yeah, I think there's just the question of, they're just looking at the application. So they're requesting from us $461,000 and that they're saying that that's 50%. So that means the total cost of this project is pushing a million dollars. Obviously, whatever you guys, correct me if I'm wrong. So obviously, whatever you guys want to do with your money, that's awesome. But I feel like that's a really large ask of the CPC to make one bedroom ADU affordable unit. And I'm the housing person on this committee, like go housing. But to me, this feels like a crazy ask. But I totally appreciate you guys' comments.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of where I'm at with this.
[SPEAKER_08]: To clarify, the $460 is the total cost of the project. And so their request is the one-to-one match, so it would be half of that kind from the CPC. The 235. Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry. Maybe I misread that. And then I just think we maybe need to see a better budget. The Gmail from Mr. Go-To-Bed, which is a crazy last name, Mr. Go-To-Bed. But I just think we need to see harder numbers. Yeah. That's all.
[SPEAKER_15]: Yeah. And then also, as a point of clarification, done some research into what it costs to build affordable housing, and this is actually in line or less than, like the total project cost is less than what it typically takes.
[Roberta Cameron]: Per unit cost is actually pretty affordable for an affordable housing unit to create an affordable housing unit.
[SPEAKER_05]: But until, but I feel, I mean, yeah, this is what I do every day. But until we see actual numbers showing that per unit costs, I mean, I don't know if there's any consideration taken into account, like the cost for the historic aspect of this, all of the huge markups that were going to come with this project.
[SPEAKER_08]: What we have, what Theresa just pulled up, is the preliminary quote from the builder. So he's come out. He's inspected the structure. So this would be accounting for the historical nature. I also know that Ryan, our architect, has worked with him on other historical buildings, so has experience Historic type homes, so just to be clear, this is a specific quote coming from the visit to the.
[Roberta Cameron]: With respect to administering the long-term deed restriction, I would imagine that the Affordable Housing Trust or the city's affordable housing staff might be able to help to facilitate that, you know, the management of renting the units out, you know, overseeing the affordability restriction. So, you know, there might be there would hopefully be a way to take that off of the homeowner's hands.
[Theresa Dupont]: I will say that we do monitoring annually for other entities.
[SPEAKER_15]: We're also aware that this will be a decent amount of investment of our time and energy into figuring out what this is, and being the first ones to try out this model and sort of being guinea pigs with it. We've been guinea pigs on lots of projects in the past before, and so we're not afraid of being the first people to try this out and see it through. Also knowing that, right, this is successful and this does work and this is a cost effective way to bring affordable housing in an invisible way into Medford, especially West Medford. I think that's gonna be something that's really worth the time and is something that we would happily put that effort in for.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you. Chairman? I just want one follow up, Teresa. Do you think that this could potentially be a good project for the Housing Trust to vet and determine funding? Potentially, with their specialization and knowledge.
[Theresa Dupont]: We may ask them to consult on this one. But seeing as this request is half housing, half historic preservation, I would see value in bringing this to them as a consultant when they review this as a courtesy thing. Would that satisfy your curiosity, Kayleen? Or are you saying it's a feeling?
[SPEAKER_05]: I just have concerns about this in general. But that's OK. Go ahead. Move on to Jeremy. He has a question.
[Jeremy Martin]: You all actually answered my question. Sorry, I forgot to lower my hand.
[SPEAKER_11]: Doug?
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, I think this is uncharted waters for us a little bit. I've never seen one like this in the time I've been on this board. But it's interesting to me because I just would note that the per cost unit that we've seen for affordable housing is is substantially higher than this over the years. It's been 700, 800,000. There's an article in Today's Globe that over a million dollars for the ones in Porter Square that are 100% affordable. That is in the cover of the business section today. That's just kind of the complexities and the subsidies and the really difficult environment for putting together affordable housing makes it two or three times what a market unit would be. If I was building a 200-unit apartment building, we'd be building it for 350 grand a unit at market rate, but that's just not the world of affordable housing. I think this is intriguing to me. Obviously, there are priorities we need to discuss as a group, but I think it's really worthwhile. And I do like that it's killing two birds with one stone here, so to speak, in terms of the preservation, which would normally not be enough to get it over the finish line. But with the public benefit being the unit, I think it probably would. I think conceptually, I think that it's just different than anything we've seen before.
[SPEAKER_15]: about the accuracy of the budget or the veracity of it. We've gotten several quotes. We've done our best to get an idea, a pretty firm idea of what phase one is. So we're pretty comfortable with those costs and what those look like. It's fair to phase two that there's, that's further out. We haven't done as many quotes on that. And so if you have a reason to think that our budget's wrong, we offline love to get that feedback and love to get advice on how to increase the accuracy of that, As homeowners who are looking to make a good decision about going into this, we'd like to make the most amount of information as possible. So if there's anyone here who has advice on how to improve that, we greatly appreciate that offline.
[Ada Gunning]: Great. Just going back to my original question about the unit and the garage, not to obsess about that, but I'm just thinking about creating a support. I agree with everything Doug just said. It's a cool idea. You guys seem like great guinea pigs. That all seems good. Um, but I'm just stuck on the one bedroom. Like that seems like so much effort to put into creating a one bedroom affordable unit versus like, could this be a unit with two bedrooms or that could sustain a family? Um, so that's just where my mind is going. It just seems like a very limited outcome to such an energy intensive project. And I'm just curious if there's any like flexibility with that. And I because I'm not in the affordable housing universe, I'm kind of curious for people who are like, are one bedroom units like standard for an affordable housing development? Is that the minority of units like I don't actually know?
[Theresa Dupont]: So that's probably the majority are not bedroom units.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it's being if it's being considered ADU, then yeah, one bedroom.
[Ada Gunning]: Like this is in a neighborhood with like families basically. There's a need for all bedroom sizes everywhere. Yeah.
[Theresa Dupont]: If somebody said, hey, I want to build a three-bedroom affordable unit, the city would do backflips. Nobody's building over two bedrooms.
[Ada Gunning]: Those West Medford people are going to really get mad about that one. There's this massive carriage house that's like a block from my house on Thatcher. I don't know. Are you familiar with that one? It's so massive. And I'm like, if they built a one-bedroom unit, I would die. It's so big. And that's why I'm just, yeah.
[SPEAKER_15]: No, that's a really good question. And I think for us, it's sort of, you know, we're, we have a certain amount of money that we spend on this. And I think because there's other things about stabilizing the structure that grows in scope in terms of the foundation and other things that perhaps the cost of the project too.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Right. Thank you.
[Reggie Graham]: Yes. Just a question for you. Is there existing funding in this now?
[SPEAKER_08]: There is not plumbing, there's electrical. I probably have to upgrade the panel for it to be a local structure, but we would need to have water and sewer going to the building.
[Reggie Graham]: The reason why I ask is because some years ago, up in the hillside, there was a fire. A young tough student was living in a carriage house. The carriage house didn't have any plumbing, had electricity. The young lady lost her life. in the fire. At the after the occurrence, the city said something to the effect they made a resolution that carriage houses could no longer be utilized as domicile. I don't know whether that's ever been changed, to be honest with you. So I just a suggestion. But you know, before we go through this exercise, please, you know, find out and we'll probably do some more homework on our own.
[Theresa Dupont]: Well, I don't, I think that that, I don't think that became an ordinance or, you know, codified in the zoning or anything.
[Reggie Graham]: There's a guy right next door to me who has a carriage house twice as tall as that. And he did some renovations and so on and so forth, but they would not allow him to put plumbing back there. And it wasn't that long ago. I'm just letting you know, because it would be terrible for you to go through all this exercise and then find out, no, you can't do it. That would be awful.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I appreciate it. And we also have Ryan. I'm not sure if he's on mute, but I know he's also talked to the building department, showed our preliminary architectural plans. I think we've gotten an initial sort of indication that this seems possible and feasible. I'm not sure if you have any comments, Ryan, or if that came up.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I'll just add that we were before the building commissioner, and that's one of the reasons why we have to move the building forward off of the lot line, not only to move setback, but to allow clearance on all sides for life safety purposes so the fire department can get to it if need be.
[SPEAKER_15]: But still, any and all feedback is welcome, and we're looking into it.
[Doug Carr]: I mean, if this is... I think the accessory utility unit, when that was passed, I think that basically superseded everything, didn't it? Didn't it, Teresa? I would think that's the intent of that legislation, is to...
[Roberta Cameron]: You're talking about the APU language? The situation that happened 20 years ago would have been a building that was not up to code. And so bringing this building up to code would have to meet compliance with... I'll do due diligence.
[Reggie Graham]: Why not find out exactly what the opposition would be, if there were opposition, before they start going down that road?
[Theresa Dupont]: I feel confident that it's not in effect. And to Doug's point, the local legislation that passed at the state level would supersede any prohibitive or restrictive local language like that. Governor Healey signed into law, and gosh, it went into effect January this year, that ADUs are allowable by right. They have to still meet local zoning setbacks. plot restrictions, excuse me, I'm losing my voice. But it would be, I think it would supersede anything. I will do due diligence. The other half that I wear for City Hall is the Historic District Commission support person. So I will find out. But I feel confident that we're good. That I should confirm. Excuse me.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Thank you. I think, any more questions on this project?
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. Thanks very much. I really appreciate your work to envision all of this and to apply it for funding.
[SPEAKER_15]: Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us and consider our program.
[Ada Gunning]: Yes. It's not a question for them, but just for us to think about. I have neighbors that just did an ADU project to put the mother in the converted their garage to an ADU, put the mother in the ADU. So like, theoretically, if that was a carriage house, and they converted their carriage house, and they abided by the affordable housing deed, whatever, but with the intention of putting their own family member in that unit, would that change things?
[Roberta Cameron]: So I think that the requirements for the long-term deed restriction would require an arm's length marketing of the unit. So you couldn't build that for a family member.
[Ada Gunning]: So then we would be essentially preferential to people who were not trying to have intergenerational living.
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah, no, I mean, as a member of the affordable housing trust, I would love to see us be able to create a program that could provide people with funding to build 80 years if they put a. long term or permanent deed restriction on their unit. But that program doesn't exist right now. And so this is a one off request. And the reason why I think like this is potentially a viable project is because they're looking to make an arm's length, you know, affordable unit that would be kind of the equivalent of an inclusionary unit. just one singleton unit in the community that the city could help to monitor and market.
[Ada Gunning]: Totally, but it's a one-off project, but it's also precedent-setting, so I'm just trying to think through, like, what is the precedent?
[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah, I think that one of the key things here is that arm's length marketing is the precedent, but I would also You know, the fact, as I mentioned, the fact that it's historic preservation makes it appropriate to bring to the CPC. If it wasn't historic preservation, I would rather see it go to the Affordable Housing Trust. But this is the first time for us to have a project like this. So you're right, the precedent setting. I think it's a good suggestion that Teresa made to to consult with the Affordable Housing Trust and think about how can we support each other on this project.
[Theresa Dupont]: I just want to be aware that we have Tim McGovern. Good conversations. I don't mean to... Hi, Tim. I don't mean to... Hi, Tim. How are you? Is it 1-1-2-1? 1-1-5-1. No, sorry. 1-1-2-1. It's 1121. Thank you. I'm right inside both bathrooms on the third floor, so people are always asking me which code. 1151. Yes, that one I do know.
[Reggie Graham]: I don't know the ladies one.
[Theresa Dupont]: It's late, folks. All right. Hi, Tim.
[Jeremy Martin]: Hi. Sorry to interrupt. Were we planning a break at any point, or are you trying to power through?
[Theresa Dupont]: Um, Tim is our last one. Um, so I leave it up to the committee. Do we want to have a bio break for a few minutes or muscle through?
[SPEAKER_05]: Power. Power. Power. Okay. I have bedtime in 13 minutes I got to get to.
[Theresa Dupont]: Alrighty. Um, the last application of the evening. It's, um, from DPW, the Oak Grove Cemetery Buildings Preservation. We are joined by DPW Commissioner Tim McGivern. Tim, you have the floor.
[Tim McGivern]: Thank you, Teresa. Hello, everybody. Thanks for hearing me out tonight. So obviously the number I put in the application package is big, but it's a smaller number compared to a much bigger project. So the reason I'm going to get to why it's just the service building we're submitting. But what I want to really get to tonight is just really updating you on where we are on the project, because You guys have funded the design thus far, so I think it's really important to do that. 1st, I have a presentation. I don't know if Teresa, I can go ahead and share my screen and start it. That's going to be an issue.
[Theresa Dupont]: I just made your sugar.
[Tim McGivern]: All right, let me just get back to the beginning. All right, can you see that?
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[Tim McGivern]: Okay. All right. So I think I recognize, I know many of you, I recognize faces from different boards and commissions. So hello everybody. So this project is, you know, I'd say right now we're in a big breath, sort of big picture, look at it. You know, the drawing phase is at design development. We're finishing that up right now. But we had a meeting on it recently, which spurred a lot of conversation. So, you know, we're going to start there, but I got a couple of goals for tonight. If I can. So like I stated, I want to update this commission on the project in general. I want to present some progress on what I'm calling operational evaluation, which you'll understand a little bit more about that as we go along. I want to present to you just a due diligence alternative, because that's where we're at in this project is making sure we're looking at all of our options. They're all on the table, and we're discussing them intelligently. And then fourth, review funding and cost considerations for that alternate one. So start with the project review, as I think many of, you know, the Oak Grove cemetery, the historic section of it, and just the cemetery in general is considered historic. meets a lot of the check marks for the National Register of Historic Places, including both of these buildings. So a lot of information has been given to you guys in the past since we started this project. We completed a conceptual design and study in 2023. And we are at the end stages of design development right now, including both buildings. And that includes a DD plan review, which we started and is underway and we have a DD cost estimate review with the designer foster architecture on October 16th, 2025, which is this Thursday. This may look familiar if you were on the commission last year, this was the red number. There was the request last year. We haven't spent that money yet, but that is that's for construction construction documents. So, basically, where we're at, if you're looking at this is D. D design phase 1, we're at the end of that phase. So basically completed and as, you know, the. Continuing construction documents is funded, but we're going to take a pause for the moment before we continue. Just a reiteration of the historical status in the cover page for the report. This is also information that I presented to you last time, but we don't have the estimate yet and we'll get it later this week. But just from discussions, I believe it's going to probably be more since now that they've had a chance to dive in and design things and take a good close look at both buildings from just my. My gut tells me it's going to be quite a bit more. Well, maybe not quite a bit. I'm not quite sure. But the service building or the maintenance building, $6.24 million construction costs. And then the office or caretaker's building, $1.63 million, $7.87 for the total, which is why the number I put on the application to you folks is the lower number, the $6.24 million number for just the service building. So just some highlights of the design development plans. I didn't put the whole plan set in the presentation, and they're not even actually final yet. I'm going to receive them with the estimates, but I think they're mostly there. There are some links to those drawings. questioning brings us there. Caretaker supporters, the recommendations are, you know, what we would need to do is a complete electrical overhaul, including a new service to the building, and then retrofitting the building for ADA requirements, which is pretty substantial, as well as utility upgrades onto the site, including water, taking a look at sewer, and potentially gas. So, you know, those are very expensive things, obviously. Service building, The maintenance garage, the most expensive thing on this building is the repair of the cast stone that is falling apart. And then also there's some significant costs associated with retrofit for ADA requirements for the bathrooms, etc. And then some utility upgrades for that building as well. Just the cover sheet showing the team that is working on the project. Existing conditions, I think, you know, actually, no, this is the new conditions just a shot of the plans. And then this is the maintenance building plan set. And a nice elevation of the plan set there. All right back to the operational evaluation progress. So, you know. One of the things I've been asked to do is take a close look at existing spaces, how they relate to the present and future cemetery operational needs. So I've been trying to dig into that while the design's been going on. And one of the things that came out of that is the cemetery superintendent, who's the caretaker and lives in the caretaker's quarters, is not something that is needed or is the norm anymore. The person that's the current superintendent will retire at some point. And after that, the city doesn't necessarily see a need for a caretaker for the cemetery. The caretaker would just be for the building at that point. Okay. The preservation, and we discovered this a lot during DD, and we've asked a lot of questions about this. Preserving the service building, the maintenance building, the one we all like, the stone one, doesn't really benefit us or improve our operational needs from that building. It's a little bit undersized. It's not modern. We could never really get it to be like a modern garage. If we were to build walls to get it to be like a modern garage. It would make the size smaller and it's already small to begin with on the inside. So we're learning a lot about how making that building operational for us is maybe not the best use of money because it doesn't really improve our operations at the end of the day. But it kind of keeps them at status quo and makes them worse. All right. And then just another small thing is that there's a demolished small garage on the site that Pat has left over. And that provided some needed operational space we need to think about as well. So part of the due diligence, what we've been asked to look at is, well, what if we move those operational spaces, got rid of the residential portion, and looked at creating a new building with a relatively small office, public counter? and some municipal garage space for the cemetery crew. And that may be all of it or a portion of it, I'm not sure. You know, we have to take a close look at this alternative just to get some costs and what some realistic things would look like. But, you know, we'd want to preserve the... From my understanding is really most entities involved here want to preserve the service building. That seems to be the real... desire, and I understand that. But we could reduce, minimize the operational space, and that could reduce preservation costs. If we're not building it like an operational building, if we're building it more as a monument, that could save some costs there. Build a new building that would include multiple garage bays, small office space, maybe some employee space for muster, things like that, public counter, restrooms. Potentially, these are all potentials for an alternate to look at. Any new building will be designed to match the historical significance of the location. So I think most folks are familiar with how they try to do that, make the new building match what, make it look like it's supposed to be there. And then raise the caretaker's quarters. I put that on there just because it's a, it's a cost consideration. It would be end of life type deal with the building. But I understand the desire to preserve that building as well. Then that this, this scheme works with that, but it's more expensive. to think about taking it down as a full project and turn into a blank slate on that site. We did explore some, well, what are some alternate uses of the building? Unfortunately, cemetery rules seem pretty strict. The only thing you can use cemetery land for is cemetery uses. And then a part of this, funding and cost considerations. So I talked about some of the operational considerations. These are just, I don't know why the presentation sets it up this way, but they're all kind of independent things. But they all kind of lead to each other. They're all reasonable and logical. The service building, removing operational space, like we talked about, that's a potential for cost reduction. And that is eligible for CPA funding, from my understanding. I think that's clear. But the new building would not be eligible for CPA funding. So that's important. It kind of makes a stark clear line between what is and what isn't. The city would like to prioritize operational and public building space due to the large backlog of capital expenses. And I have that on my next slide. The mayor wanted me to definitely show that to you and help you understand that particular bullet point. Building a new building will provide better operations at a potential significant cost savings, and potential is important. There is space on the site to complete a new building before transferring operations, which minimizes schedule-related costs. A new building minimizes risks associated with renovations on existing structures with unknowns. A new building means maintaining the existing caretaker's quarters until the superintendent position is vacated. And as I mentioned, you then have separated project timelines and funding sources. So the project is bifurcated. Let's see what else. This is that chart that kind of shows the backlog of city spending and what the administration is battling with. It's not very clear. Sorry about that. I'm realizing that now. So I believe it was shared on the social media pages for the city and is on the website and all that. Next steps. Well, we're going to continue our review of the DD plan set and the cost estimate. And we're going to complete that operational evaluation. And hopefully, we're going to have, while we will, we'll have our architects on board with that discussion and what some potential concepts might be and what might make sense to cost so we can compare it to the preservation efforts. Let's see what else. And then we'll present to the cemetery board, which we haven't presented this. You guys are the first ones to see this from a presentation standpoint and where we're at. So this will be put in front of the cemetery board at some point, but wanted to talk to you folks obviously on your schedule. So that's it. Happy to take questions. And I can go back to slides. I have the plans. We can take it in whatever direction you folks want to take it.
[Reggie Graham]: French? Mr. Brogan, how long before you retire us?
[Tim McGivern]: Can you guys see me too, or just the presentation?
[Theresa Dupont]: We can see you. Can you hear us?
[Tim McGivern]: Yep. Everybody got really little for me, so.
[Unidentified]: Interesting.
[Tim McGivern]: So it's all good.
[Reggie Graham]: It's all good.
[Tim McGivern]: I think the answer to your question is is not solid, but have talked to him about this. And, you know, he's you know, he doesn't have any sort of hopes for a legacy. um, successor or anything like that. And he is planning on retiring, but he doesn't have a date set in stone. So there is a realistic number there that I'm going to continue to try to pin him down on because that is a cost because we would basically either need to keep the building up to living conditions or we would need to find an apartment for him for the rest of his tenure.
[Roberta Cameron]: I have a question. So I understand, Jeremy, you go first. I'll come back to my question.
[Jeremy Martin]: Well, I'm sorry. I had to step away for bedtime. So I missed a lot of your presentation, Tim. But would you be willing to share this with us so we can review it? I know you said it's new.
[Tim McGivern]: Sure. Yeah, my intention was to share it. I was making tweaks right up to when I turned it on. All right, thank you. Thanks.
[Roberta Cameron]: So maybe I'll help to fill in, Jeremy. So my understanding is that the proposal, the alternatives that you're talking about right now, preserves the utility building and builds a new building that provides for the utilities that we need today, the office space and the operational space. And then you'll, you'll demolish the caretaker's building. What is the future that you envision for the site where the caretaker's building stands right now?
[Tim McGivern]: We would, well, I guess we would build it into the hillside. We would probably try to naturalize it into the hillside. But also I say that I see, I think we're not even ready to say things like that, though, to tell you the truth, because I think, ideally, from a lay this out perspective, we want to separate the new construction from existing. So then we can have a nice separation and transfer. So right across the internal street. a long place that there's an open space that isn't burial ground that could work for a building. But we can't rule out at this point using some of the caretaker's building site. I think that would be bad. We might need to look at it just to rule it out. But the vision for alternative one to look at from a cost scenario would be to raise the building, break up the foundation, bury it, loam and seed it, naturalize it, make a hillside there.
[Roberta Cameron]: I feel like it would be really helpful to have a more finished concept of what the future of this portion of the cemetery is. If I were on the cemetery board, I would want to know that for sure. But it feels like it's not ripe to commit funding to until we know where it's going, unless the funding that you're asking for is to help us get to the place of knowing where it's going.
[Tim McGivern]: Right now, the funding question is the idea that they're 2 separate projects and if we're preserving the service building as more of a monument than operational space, it separates the schedule from the operational portion of the project and to look at what that could mean from a cost perspective. But, like I said, it wouldn't be the new building and those new things wouldn't be eligible for CPA. So, then the only part that's eligible for CPA, I mean, still, it's the major part is preserving of the service building and the city is not able to commit to even a level of funding to for me to bring to report to you for preserving that building. because the mayor wants to focus on operational employee space buildings and the like, and the price tag is so large for the preservation of both of these buildings that we're being asked to do our due diligence on the cost to do it. and what it might look like to be a new building. So I think what they ask is for the CPC to think about what could the CPC commit to preserving this building. We know approximately how much it's going to cost. We're going to know better on Thursday how much it Well, cost will have a design development cost estimate. I think it might be a tad more than what we're showing on the concept design, but it will at least give this commission knowledge of what it might cost to build that building and preserve it the way we'd like to see it. Compared to obviously your revenue and potential loans, debt service, the city obviously You know, you know, has to take out loans for building projects from what I understand the CPC could as well. And, you know, we did a lot of discussion about, like, well, what would what would a reasonable contribution look like from the CPC on an annual basis for debt service? And what would a reasonable contribution look like from the city on a annual debt service affordability type thing? So we looked at a lot of those scenarios. Um, and it came to the kind of conclusions that we did, we had to take a closer look at basically separating the 2 projects. 1 is a preservation project and 1 is more of an immediate operational need for both employees and public as well as operating the cemetery. And I should mention, too, that the cemetery board did recently, and I'm not sure if they published it, so to speak, but they have a strategic plan that they've been working on, which I just recently got a copy of from them, which is great to see. And, you know, obviously the buildings are on their front and center and part of that plan. So, you know, when we. Unfortunately, Roberta, we're also not at a point to show you a drawing with potential spaces. We don't even know how many square feet we need. We know roughly how much we think we might need in a building. And then we kind of know what square footage costs of these type of spaces are running these days. And we know we have a flat site with pretty good soil. But we haven't done the design work to know Is this a $1 million building we're talking about? A $1.5 million building? I'm not sure. I just know that we have feasibility on the site for something like this. And if preserving a wooden structure, the residential caretaker's building, is going to include a whole bunch of new utilities, gutting the place for electric, and then putting it all back together again. And we're already up to well over $1 million for that, and I expect it to be higher. So making sure that we're doing the correct where the right cost moves on these projects and making sure we're looking at it closely. So that's what I meant in the beginning. We're at the place where, OK, we're seeing design work now. We're seeing how much this is going to cost. We're seeing what it looks like. And we're taking a step back. We're taking a breath. And we're bifurcating the projects at this point so we can look at them separately.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. Did you have another question? So I could, Doug, go ahead.
[Doug Carr]: Well, finish your question first, Roberta, if you don't mind.
[Roberta Cameron]: So I would ask a little bit more about what uses could occur in the utility building and or the residential structure. The utility building, I understand that it doesn't work as a garage. Could it work as a counter space and office for meeting the public or have a gathering space? how could we use that building given its constraints that would meet a need for the city? And then likewise, the residential building, given that we have so few buildings that are city-owned in the building and a need for space, like our capital needs for space for municipal services, Is there anything compatible with that building that we need, like administrative space, archive space? I mean, archive could potentially be related to the cemetery tangentially. I just wonder whether there's a need that could be met without tearing that building down, especially if you're able to build your operational building separately.
[Tim McGivern]: It's a good point, and I don't think it should be ruled out. All I know is right now the cemetery laws are set up, so it would have to be cemetery use. But if there's a way to, I think one of the ideas that was floated was, can we parcel out a piece? Maybe we can. So we're asking legal about that. That's kind of part of the due diligence to say, well, is it really a raise? Are we really taking that building down, or are we trying something else with it? But again, back to the point of why we're looking at the alternate the way we are is because you do have that flexibility without looking at a million different scenarios. So that's why the next step is kind of focusing in the direction that we're taking. So hopefully that helps answer the question.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Thanks Doug.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, Tim and I have actually been communicating a lot lately, because he's starting to develop plans for the seven acres that the Brooks Estate wraps around that was set aside for cemetery expansion in 1998, but now is starting to be looked at seriously by Tim and the group, the commission, excuse me, the board. So, but there's, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of moving pieces here, because I see, first of all, I would love that house if there's any way possible just to sell that house and use those funds for things you really need, because you clearly have a massive funding need, right? When you're looking for upwards of many millions of dollars for what's on the excellent presentation you proposed here. and then expanding the Oak Grove Cemetery into the other side of the access drive from the Brooks Estate, we always think that's another three plus million dollars. We're looking at a substantial many millions of dollars for what I believe is probably a cemetery that's got a lifespan, we think 20 years, but maybe not. Depending on if you do a crematorium or some, I think there's a larger, I think Roberto was asking you to step back. I'm thinking I'm asking the same thing, that there's kind of an end game for what's happening at the cemetery that needs to be thought through, you know, for what's happening, what's the actual end date for when there's no more expansion space unless the design changes, you know, and investing, you know, eight or nine million dollars or something that will be perhaps be at the end of its lifespan in 20 years is something that I think not only this, this board's going to want to know about, but so the city council or the mayor, right? Because the vision you talked about, that document, I haven't seen it. It was emailed, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I think this is a real opportunity to think about the entire cemetery globally, what's happening here, to make sure that the design of the expansion is consistent with what you're thinking for the whole parcel, the whole property. Because there's so many moving parts here. I commend you because you've got a great preservation architect. This is a great step forward. I'm glad we funded this piece because you needed this. But I think now that you have it, you've got to think, okay, now that I know all the pieces and all the costs, what are we really doing with all this? I think there's one more step here to kind of say, okay, we have to make choices here on this site, this site, this site, this house, this property, historic, yes, functional, no. Now you have all the knowledge and the costs where you're going to have it this week. I think there's an incredible opportunity here to now think about
[Tim McGivern]: Don't forget though, don't forget. So the end game isn't just done selling plots because the historic part of the cemetery. Now we still maintain. We still go up there. People still visit it. So the operational needs of the cemetery don't go away. Even if we're done selling plots, even if we're done bearing, we still have operational needs. So don't forget that. Also, don't forget that. We are thinking in a sense that, well, we don't really need a caretaker at our cemetery anymore. So that's also a step in the direction of bringing our operations of our cemetery down. When I talk about a new building, I'm talking about looking at a scenario for cost purposes. If it turns out that a new building is going to cost us, you know. A 1,000,008 and save us 6 months, but we're still at 1.2 for renovation, renovating the structure. Then, you know, we're, we're in firm ground for, like, you know, back to preserving that structure again. So, but right now, you know. from an operational need, we don't need that building. Selling it is an option, too. That would be a nice plus black mark on the balance sheet for the project. I just don't know how feasible that is, to tell you the truth. We're looking at it. But I think there's some repercussions if you go in the reverse of land protection, especially for cemeteries. And we're not even sure it's feasible. There is a way to do it. But we're looking at that at the moment. So, but I, you know, I think, I think the cemetery is there to stay for a long time and whatever we do there needs to be lasting because I think we're going to have employees and visitors there for the time being. Thank you.
[Roberta Cameron]: One suggestion, if you do explore the possibility of selling it, you would want to sell it with a permanent preservation restriction already attached. So that's one way in which you're giving up a restriction, but you're also placing a new restriction on it so that it would remain the landmark that it already is. So we'd be trading. an operational cemetery building for a permanently preserved landmark, rather than giving up a landmark in order to keep it as a cemetery space. So there might be, I think, an argument for why it would be palatable to give up that restriction. a person who wants to buy a house next to a cemetery. You know who made Good Neighbors? No, it sounds as though like the cemetery strategic plan is really a critical piece of this. And I would love to see that be a public document like that, that there be an opportunity for the for the neighborhood to provide some feedback. This isn't just a plan for how to sell cemetery plots. This is a plan for whether the landmark buildings that are the core of what you see from the street are going to be here in the future or are going to be torn down. I would think that the community would want to have some Some input or at least understanding of how we get to the decision that we make. We make, you make. We're making a funding decision, but you're making a decision about what the future of the community looks like.
[Tim McGivern]: Yeah, I think there's a another check in with this group at some point, because, like, I'm saying, like, I was saying before, I'll make my rounds. I'll go to the cemetery board. They're gonna have lots of questions related to this strategic plan. There is a, there is, you know, the idea that. the folks out there, the people, the residents, the community should really understand what the costs are associated with preserving these spaces and how to balance the operational needs with the historic preservation piece and how to best do that. So I completely agree. I don't think any one of us knows exactly where that line should be drawn. But ideally, it's a community discussion that says, hey, politicians, here's where we want the line to be. So I'm with you there. So what I can say, though, is that I feel like there's a lot of this is sort of cutting edge. And we're at the point where we know we can say, I think it's healthier to look at the buildings. separately, know that one of them has the potential to be a monument. One of them, the Wood Frame Caretaker's Quarters, has an unknown future. What do the cost scenarios look like for that? Is it feasible to sell it or not? And if it is, how does that change the game? What is a new building cost right across the street that is going to meet operational needs or improve them? You know, and how does that integrate with with the preservation of the site? So anyway, lots of good questions to answer as we kind of move along. So.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you very much for your time and for your diligence and asking and answering all of these really big questions.
[Tim McGivern]: Yeah, and hopefully we'll have more answers as we go and I'll give Teresa an update on the DD drawings and the cost estimate. And I invited her to the meeting too, so she can stay on the cutting edge of this project as well.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you for that.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[Tim McGivern]: All right, thanks everybody.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: Go home. Thank you.
[Tim McGivern]: This was easier than traffic commission tonight.
[Ada Gunning]: Okay. What a fun life you live.
[Tim McGivern]: Oh yeah, it's awesome.
[Doug Carr]: See ya. Did I read that right? They're asking for $6 million? 6 point, like 2.8 times our budget? Isn't that a bond?
[Roberta Cameron]: That is, yeah. They would be talking about a bond. Yep.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[Theresa Dupont]: and whether we could carry that debt service, to which the answer is no. It was estimated that if we were to bond this out in its entirety, that estimate would be about $750,000 to $800,000 a year. So we do have a budget that technically could cover that.
[Roberta Cameron]: But that might not be the only project that we want to fund for the next 20 years. Correct.
[Theresa Dupont]: So there is runway. But I just want to be sensitive to the time, because it's 9 o'clock. The meeting minute, I'm sorry, Roberta. Yeah, that's all right. Meeting minutes for September 9. You may have noticed that there was an attachment in the Dropbox. I saw it, and I thought, oh, Teresa already did those minutes. Great. So I do not have meeting minutes for tonight. I apologize. I put a placeholder and then completely forgot to actually follow up on that. I will have them for next meeting. Eric's kissed. Administrative updates. I only had, you know, I was today asked if this board would be interested in tabling. at the November 1st Pumpkin Smash event, which is a fun event. It's over at the West Medford Community Center, I believe, again this year. No, it's not. It's not? It's at the McGlynn Elementary. It's at the McGlynn Elementary School. It's the Saturday after Halloween, 1030 to 1. I have not obligated us to attend, but if anybody has a burning desire to table at that particular event. It's a composting event for, you bring your jack-o-lanterns and you smash them, and it's a lot of fun.
[Ada Gunning]: It's a really fantastic event. You're right. You're selling it. I know I am. Imagine axe throwing at pumpkins with lots of children running around. So do we want to table at that? I'm still parenting my weekend, so I cannot. But I might be willing. I'm not. OK.
[Theresa Dupont]: I'll take it offline. yeah i'll circulate it but you know just put it out there i'm a little burnt out um but it is it is the season yeah and this would be probably the last one of the season so um but i'll just put in the see if anybody's really loving that idea let me know but i'll email it around and i promise that's all i have for administrative updates truce i have a quick question for you i see there's a
[Jeremy Martin]: the COVID memorial folder in there. Will we review that next time?
[Theresa Dupont]: Yes, I apologize. I think I mentioned that right out the gate, but the planning department has that project. They have asked if they can present at their November meeting. They had a community outreach event, which I went to, and Roberta as well, and they're taking some of that feedback so that Application is going to stay pretty solid. The design may tweak a little bit. And with that, the funding request. But it's largely not changing too much. But they just asked if we can punch them to November's meeting. Thank you. Yeah. And if anybody has feedback on that one, let me know.
[Ada Gunning]: I feel like for November's meeting, if it's going to go late, we should put the punchy live people at the end. OK. And the drive-in presentation first. OK.
[Theresa Dupont]: I think we have a mix of Zoom and in-person. Great. Yeah. And I think those projects won't be as intensive. It's a lot of continuation. There's one project. But anyway, we can get ahead of ourselves. And it's 855. Yes.
[Roberta Cameron]: Well, thank you, everybody. That was a great round of presentations. Does anyone want to make a motion to adjourn?
[Unidentified]: So moved.
[Roberta Cameron]: Second.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: All right. Did you catch that, Teresa? I technically heard Reg first.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was Kayleen seconded. Kayleen.
[9fui-IqEKvo_SPEAKER_08]: And then Kayleen seconded.
[Ada Gunning]: All right. Let it be known, Kayleen seconded.
[Roberta Cameron]: All right. I've got to call the roll. So I've got Reg.
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Roberta Cameron]: Ada. Yes. Doug.
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Roberta Cameron]: Jeremy.
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Roberta Cameron]: Myesha. Yes. And Kayleen. Yes. I didn't miss anyone, did I? No. Yourself. Myself, yes. Yes, adjourned.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thanks, everybody. Appreciate it. Thank you. See you next month. Take care.