[Jennifer Keenan]: Monday, December 9th, I'll call the meeting to order at 7.03. Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting of the City of Medford Historical Commission will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so by using the Zoom link provided for in the agenda. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted and public participation in any public hearing during this meeting shall be by remote means only. Okay, so first up on the agenda tonight, we have 56 Wareham Street. Our goal tonight is to vote to lift their demo delay. I know the subcommittee has been working hard with the property owners to mitigate the demolition for that as much as possible. I think we're there. I know Yale is here. Hi, Yale. Um, so I think Doug and Peter, do you guys want to go over the plans and present them to commission and then we can take a vote.
[Doug Carr]: Um, well, 1 year went through, we commission was very satisfied with the redesign. We had to kind of go back and kind of. Rethink our assumptions, but I think the end result looks cohesive and we're satisfied. So, you want to give us the 3 minute summary here and we'll be good to go. And.
[MCM00001614_SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to see? Do you want to share?
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, let me. I can't make you a co host. OK, thanks Dennis. Yeah, we're going to give you permission so you can share your screen.
[MCM00001614_SPEAKER_00]: Tell me when you see. Yep. Okay, so we discussed a few things, the major thing was to raise the roof of the historic house facing the front, so keeping the roof shape and the slope and everything, but basically to raise it so it becomes part of the roof of the addition in the back, which is going to continue higher because the building extends also beyond it. And then it doesn't look like there's two separate buildings and one is higher than the other. It looks like it's, you know, it's one coherent building, right? So that's one thing that we did. Then another discussion was about the windows. So we decided to change all the windows to be a little bit more traditional relative to what I've shown before. So if, you know, whatever I showed that works with the more traditional front facade, I just carried them through the rest of the building. So they're the two over two. I changed also the dormers. I made them a little bit smaller, a little bit more traditional looking, smaller windows also. Before I had only this one and this one, it didn't work with the way the roof is. I decided that now it's I added it because the existing house does have the two dormers on this side. It's not quite where the existing dormer is, but this one aligns with the window that I have below in the stair. We discussed keeping the pilasters that exist kind of on the front facade and then repeating some kind of a detail that resembles them in the base that protrudes in the addition in the back. We also discussed changing the siding. So it's all one continuous siding. I'm showing just white horizontal siding. It could be anything, but I think this looks nice. So this is what I propose. But I'm showing it throughout. And then wherever we wanted some kind of accent, that is going to be different. But that's not part of the historic house. And what other changes did we do? I can show you over this just the existing house. Now I put it over in yellow, so you see that now this roof is now higher. You see the two dormers of the existing house. So I have two dormers. They're not spaced quite like the existing, but they do repeat the massing of the existing house. And let me just take it off. And I think that's about it. Yeah, the goal was to make it feel like one continuous house. So we're keeping the existing, and then we're just continuing it into a bigger house beyond, which is what we tried to do.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, let me just jump in here. I think EO's done a tremendous job. This has really been a design challenge because we're not really preserving the house per se, but it's an echo of the house and we're keeping obviously as much as we can. But I feel it's successful because especially with the window change, it didn't feel like The windows in the back used to be a lot bigger, and you could really tell that it was different. And now, obviously, you could tell that the back is new. It's obviously new. But I feel like the spirit of the front house is at least maintained to some level. We're satisfied as a subcommittee. And I don't know if Eleni or Peter want to jump in, but go right ahead.
[Kit Collins]: Yeah, I agree. kind of summarizes our last discussion really nicely. And again, it's the look and feel is still there. And I think that's a preservation win. So yeah, but I can see how this would be a really challenging project. I know I missed the first meeting, but I think this is a very successful design.
[Jennifer Keenan]: It looks so good.
[MCM00001614_SPEAKER_00]: Glad you like it. Yeah, hopefully it's going to look like this when it's built. It's always a little bit different, but try to stay as close as possible.
[Doug Carr]: As a fellow architect, it's hard to not blow up what you did, but reimagine what you did. I think you did a good job on this one because it did require some radical rethinking, but keeping the spirit of it. I appreciate your efforts.
[MCM00001614_SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed, Ryan, any comments? Okay, thank you. Thank you, Doug and Peter and Eleni for working on this. I know it was a little bit of back and forth, but it looks like we, I agree Eleni, we have a nice preservation win here, so. Okay, so if there are no other comments, then I'll open it up for a vote. So for 56 Wareham Street to lift the demo delay and to proceed with the design as agreed upon by the subcommittee, I will go around and do a roll call vote as I see folks on my screen. Peter. Oh, sorry.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Make a motion to make a motion that 56 Wareham has made a continuing and bonafide effort to mitigate the demo delay and to lift the demo delay on the building.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Second.
[Jennifer Keenan]: I heard Elainey first, I'll give it to him. Okay, motion to approve the mitigated design for 56 Wareham Street and to lift the demo delay. Peter?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Doug?
[MCM00001222_SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed?
[MCM00001222_SPEAKER_04]: Yes, lift the delay.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan?
[MCM00001222_SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Elainey?
[MCM00001222_SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: OK, so that is 1, 2, 3, 5, 0.
[MCM00001614_SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Thank you, Yael. So if you could tell, I'll email Sid, but just upload the plans and I can release the permit hold in the system. We'll get your letter out to you. Thanks, Yael. Bye. See you soon. Bye bye. Okay, all right, thanks everybody. Okay, next up, we have 140 Summer Street. So I can give a little background on this. I got a call from the building department a couple of weeks ago. 140 Summer Street is a tiny little house that is adjacent or next door to, I think it's 156. So we had that one on the corner that Gina did the Fumbel Design Group. And then they did the one to the left of it on Summer Street. So this is the next house down. So I got a call from one of the building staff members. And basically, they're like, we want to tear it down, but we don't want to have to wait 18 months. And my answer to them was, well, I don't know that it's going to be delayed. We need to know what's going on. So I encouraged them to get the application in so that we could start the process. So I put them on the agenda. Actually, I don't have their application yet. But in anticipation of an application coming in and knowing that we would like to start to move them along, I talked to Ryan about ordering a Form B so that we could get everything kind of started and ready. We didn't get it in time for tonight, so for next month we'll be able to determine significance on this. Do we know if it's pre-1900, Ryan? It definitely is.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, it's an important building.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So the building inspector was telling me that inside the ceilings are shorter than seven feet. They're like, we want to do something with this house, but there's nothing we can do as it is. And I think with the projects to the right of it that have been done over and in spirit with what's on the street. You know, my hope is that maybe there's kind of a consensus here. you know, letting these folks move forward. And I don't know, I don't have anything yet. So they actually did upload a couple of renderings in the building permit system that I just saw like 20 minutes ago. If you guys want me to share them, I can show them to you what it looks like, but we don't officially have an application. So it might be a little premature.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I don't think we should waste our time. Okay.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, so, but anyway, I think they're starting to think about what they want to go there and, you know, what they want to replace this house with. So, so just keep that in mind. And we, we did put the order in Ryan for the Form B. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to table this till next month, but that's the background and what's happening there. OK. Ryan, do you want to tackle anything next in a certain order? We have the preservation ordinance discussion, our meeting dates, officer positions.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Let's do the rest of the other stuff before we get into the ordinance.
[Jennifer Keenan]: OK.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: That'll be easy.
[Jennifer Keenan]: All right. Why don't we start with the officer positions and boards and committees? So we had a little discussion behind the scenes about officers. And I am trying to take a little bit of a step back, just in the sense of the administrative work that's happening. So we talked about adding a second vice chair, so that I'm happy to still stay as chair, run the meetings, and kind of be like the, you know, I don't know, face of the commission, for lack of a better description, like when it comes to trying to navigate things in City Hall and whatnot. And Ryan and Eleni has graciously offered to be a second vice chair so that they can tackle the administrative work. And kind of like the emails and some of that stuff and I'm going to keep doing the permitting stuff and being the liaison with the building department since I have, I don't want to interrupt that connection that we've made there. What am I missing in this discretion, Ryan?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Nothing. So the only changes that we made to the list are that Eleni will be first vice chair and I will be second vice chair. And then Doug, I have your comments in there that I incorporated into the local design review. We added Eleni to that. Anything else?
[Jennifer Keenan]: No, not on my end. Yeah, comments, questions?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I move to approve the slate of officers as amended as just discussed.
[Doug Carr]: Do you mind putting it on screen, Ryan, just so everyone can just take a quick look at it? There's actually a ton of positions when you think about it.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, we like divide up the work. Yeah, I just, it's a nice, like summary document, how we divide up our work.
[Doug Carr]: I actually like that everyone really has a lot of pieces on this. Everyone wears a lot of hats. I think that's, that's not typical for a lot of boys. And I really appreciate that for everyone.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Well, and one of the things we were talking about was that, you know, when before I came on the commission, like Ryan did like the majority of the heavy lifting. And then, you know, I feel him and I have really tried to almost be co-chairs. Right. And we like we can easily come in and for each other and we know what needs to get done. And we were talking that it makes sense to bring in a third so that there's just a level of continuity and that You know, I'm so proud of our board that all of us take a role and we're all active. And I think even more so like if something were to happen, like, you know, You know, you see other examples of boards and committees where like something happens to one of their staff and then they just don't meet for months because the other people don't know what to do. And I think it's important for us to just have people like, you know, if something were to happen, you guys know how to run the meeting, you know how to contact Dennis and file the agenda and whatever. And so I think anything we can do to just keep the train moving and having backups and backups and having other people there. Because our stuff, if we don't meet, it could really affect property owners and developers. Time is money, right? So we need to keep our train moving, I think, more than maybe some other commissions, for lack of a better way to say that, if that makes sense.
[Doug Carr]: Now, this is great. I really liked it. Every board should have a level of redundancy, and I think you're adding to that, which I think is fantastic. I don't know if my markups, Ryan, actually use the word design. I don't know. Is that a...
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, so I divided it up. You guys are the, I say design committee for the design subcommittee. Demo delay, this is really us for garages and just making sure that they're not confirming that they're not carriage houses. And then permit review is really just Jen asking you and Peter if you want to go or pass. And Eleni could be on this too as well. Sometimes Jen throws it at Eleni, sometimes she throws it at me. So it just really is who the person of the day is, really.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, just trying to like, yeah. If something's really questionable, I have Ryan look at it first and then I might throw it out to you guys. Like, what do you think? Yeah. But I feel like, you know, there's the way that they've done the permits now in the system where there's like kind of major review and minor review. It's a little bit easier to like say yes, yes, yes, because it's like not our wheelhouse. So as you guys have noticed, like some of them are easy calls, I feel. So anyway. Okay, do we need a motion to vote on this?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Still moved to approve this slate of officers and committee members as displayed
[Doug Carr]: Second.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, motion to approve the 2025 Historical Commission slate of officers. Peter? Yes. Doug?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan? Yes. And Eleni? Yes. Okay, great.
[Doug Carr]: Because Kit's not here, we should have made her like, you know.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Right.
[Doug Carr]: Czar of the world or something.
[Jennifer Keenan]: She's in charge.
[Doug Carr]: Fundraising committee.
[Jennifer Keenan]: She's now paying the tab of every time we go out.
[Doug Carr]: I could get Steve gas, right?
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan, do you want to pull up the 2025 meeting dates?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yep, doing that next.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Here we are for 2025. January 13th, February 10th, March 10th, April 14th, May 12th, June 9th, July 14th, August 11th, September 8th, October 6th is a contingency, October 20th moves it for the holiday, November 11th is a Tuesday this year, so we actually can meet on Monday the 10th, unless we wanna move it, but I don't think we should, and December 8th.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Do we need, okay, so should we plan to meet Alright, this is the only is the 13th. So is the contingency the 6th or the contingency is the actual meeting? The contingency is the 20th.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: The contingency is the 6th. We don't need it if because it's left that we don't need it unless we need to meet that 30 day deadline.
[Jennifer Keenan]: OK. Because this year was the opposite, yes. Okay, but yeah, I agree that we should still meet on the 10th of November. Okay. Yeah, these all look good to me.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I move to approve the 2025 meeting dates.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Second. Are you taking the motion, Ryan, or you want me to?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: No, I took the motion and then you can second it if you want.
[Jennifer Keenan]: I seconded it. So who's taking the roll call vote? Me or you?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: That's you. No, you. OK.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So all right. So roll call vote to approve the 2025 meeting schedule. Peter?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Doug?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Eleni? Yes.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Great.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Dennis, I will send you this list so that we can get the city calendar populated. Okay, I see your thumbs up, thanks. Okay, do we need to talk about the position opening, Ryan, that we were gonna go over the description?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Oh, uh, yeah, I think, um, I think I will send around, um, for next month, uh, between now and then we should just review the press release that we do, uh, for while we're looking for new members. So we have that all lined up and ready to go. So that at like, say the six month mark, when we're in, um, into 2025, we can just ask the mayor to put it on the city's distribution list and we can send it around. Um, yeah, I think that's that's about it. And I did ask for Peter and kids, uh, terms to be renewed because their term expired December one of this year. So, um, I had you guys have you guys reappointed for a three year term? So You're with us for the next three years. Yeah, you can't leave. I will if I can. Just a formality.
[Jennifer Keenan]: As long as you are able to, Peter, we would love to have you. Yes. And then do we need to check the website, Ryan, and the city's website on those term end dates? Just because they're always wrong.
[Doug Carr]: I was just looking for those.
[Jennifer Keenan]: On our website or on the city website, our website. I don't know if I don't. I'm sure they're on our website somewhere, but the city website is where they're usually wrong.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, our website is usually correct because I keep track of it. It's where the city decides to appoint terms willy nilly and they may have paperwork that supports their dates, but they're not the right dates. As a third of the Commission has to expire every year to be in compliance, so.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, OK, we'll work on that.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: All right, so I'll send out the description between now and next meeting so we can take a look at that. Get that rolling. And then there's a process with the mayor. You apply through the mayor's office. I mean, they can still apply through us if we want to do it that way.
[Jennifer Keenan]: And you do know that you'll be consulting with us forever as our resident attorney.
[Doug Carr]: So the city's website says that Peter's term expired eight days ago, as it is, no, as is next year.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: That's not right. Yeah. Kit should, should have, according to my record.
[Jennifer Keenan]: You just said Kit and Peter. So that means the city website might be correct.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah. For once.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Or at least, at least these two terms are correct.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay. All right, Ryan, do you want to talk about the preservation ordinance?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yep, I do. All right. So I sent out information a little while ago. I think, in general, we need to give the city every available tool possible to help them create housing while not undermining our efforts for historic preservation. So I sent along a couple of, I think last meeting I sent the North Reading Ordinance, which is specifically geared towards relief, zoning relief for properties that focus on historic buildings, but there are other towns that have different bylaws that would kind of connect to this one. For example, Redding has a municipal code that allows, by right, the conversion of any of their single-family homes constructed before 1942 to a two-family by special permit if they need to change the square footage of the building, but otherwise they can just do it by right. And if they have to have a special permit, the trade-off is that once you've made that addition, You are not allowed to add more to it. In other words, somebody can't go back and continuously add more. It's a one and done deal. And if you demo the building that existed prior to 1942, after you've converted it over into a two-family, the two-family use ceases. So you have to maintain the existing building. Medford has what they call a plan development district process, where if there was a need to have an older building kind of conform to zoning, the city can change the zoning for an individual property or a group of properties to make it conforming, but it's not really small project friendly, whereas the, you know, The North Reading ordinance that I sent around is more small project friendly. It's more geared towards smaller buildings and making sure that the conversion process is, you know, it's not geared towards major development. It's it's geared towards their communities, which is smaller and more not as dense as ours. But you know, it's not something that we certainly couldn't tweak or look at coming into play for all of this in February. The state passed the accessory dwelling unit. law. So it's going to allow the city to take ADUs to the next level, I hope. And it removes a lot of the previous limitations that communities were enforcing, like it no longer allows you to limit the occupancy to homeowner-occupied main buildings or ADUs. You can rent them. It does limit the size of an ADU to 900 square feet. That doesn't mean that the They can't be bigger at the local level, but it really encourages density in existing neighborhoods. It encourages people to use carriage houses and garages. Basically, almost an invisible background increase in density while not really changing the landscape of the neighborhood. You're not coming in and building big buildings. You're using what's already there. Or if you are building a building, it's small and at scale or smaller than the existing neighborhood. So, you know, and I just provided a couple of reasons, you know why we might want to consider this demo this ordinance, such as adding much needed housing stock encourages the reuse of existing buildings creates because the units are smaller, it creates something that's a little bit more affordable to first time families or. young couples or seniors. And it may work in collaboration with CPC funding, depends on, you know, if they can maybe take advantage of the housing, you know, the housing component of it to maybe buy out an affordable restriction on it or something like that, so. So that's my thoughts. I'm interested in if people had a chance to take a look at the bylaw that I sent around, because I would be interested in bringing it to, I know Dennis and Alicia already kind of checked up on this, but it'd be good to maybe bring it to their attention to see if it'd be something that the zoning board would support, and then we'd just work it up the ladder at that point.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So do you think that we should create a preservation ordinance? Is that what your thoughts are? Yeah, so this is why does zoning have anything to do with it?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Well, it's a it's a tool for zoning, right? So they would be the one. So it would be under our. I think the right place for it would be under the Chapter 48 Historic Preservation Bylaw, but it would be a tool for the zoning bylaw because it's zoning relief in that case. A lot of times they used to say, and Doug correct me if I'm wrong, they used to say that really historic preservation was not a reason for granting zoning relief. at least the North Reading Ordinance gives them the direct power to say historic preservation is a tool in this case that they can use for leverage for the public good and for a neighborhood.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: You know what kind of relief we're talking about?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: A lot of times it's dimensional, could be height, could be setback. big in some cases in the case of north reading in but a lot of cases they specifically say if there's an existing building on the site their priority number one is to keep that building and to work new construction understanding that there is problems created by leaving that building that they give relief to the new construction provided that they leave the existing building alone Or at last resort, they move it somewhere on the site, not off the site. The priority is always to keep the existing building. So say you had the opportunity to take a building, move it over six inches, and get a large development on site, like three, four, five more units. Not that that's going to happen, but that is where you can say, all right, rather than move the building, we can just give you dimensional relief on the new construction.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, because most existing are nonconforming.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: But I mean, they're not to play devil's advocate, but they're often are nonconforming, but they're always grandfathered in. It's hard for me to see what this changes.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I want. I tried to read their code and I
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: not being a lawyer and not being really super savvy at real estate, I just couldn't figure out what it meant, to be honest with you. So that's why I'm curious as to what it really does, because I couldn't figure it out.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I do have a call into their board, because I have to get a hold of whoever their chair is, because I want to have somebody come talk to us about how they utilize this, both from the Historical Commission, because they're involved, but also their zoning board. I think both of those kind of work hand in hand, and how many cases they've had, and what sort of cases they've had, and why they created it.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, yeah, that was my question. Ryan is they've got a track record now. This is this is not a new ordinance, right? They've got a 1995. yeah, so that's, that's, you know, almost 30 years. It's like, this should be some, especially in the last 5 or 10 years when when the pressure on housing and the pressure on. accessory dwelling units and just maximizing the potential of sites seems like it's never been greater. I want to know the same thing. What's the result? Are there any lessons learned? Did the ordinance do what you said or did it go sideways on a few cases? How many units did it actually generate?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, that's a good question. I think in the time from 95 to today, the community has really been on the ball. I haven't seen much change. Where normal communities you might see large parcels and stuff turn into subdivisions, they've really you know, they've really kind of slowed their role. There are things that change, there are subdivisions that go in and move, but not to the pace that the inner ring suburbs kind of see that destruction. So I'd be really interested to know, know that and i do know that they i do know that they meet their public housing threshold because they stopped a 40b project fairly recently it was they had the a save the ipswich river campaign and they found that they were very much they very much met their affordable housing threshold so
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, I think we need to talk to them. I agree with that. But I also think, you know, obviously we're not doing this in a vacuum. There's so many people in the city of Medford who need to be educated on this. So I, I don't know, we almost, this is like a, it feels like a year long campaign to actually, you know, between city council and zoning and.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Well, I want to know, is any of this being tackled in the current zoning overhaul that they're already working on?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: So there's got to be something because the state, the moment that the state bylaw, and Dennis maybe you'll know, the moment that the state bylaw goes into effect for the ADU, it immediately overrides all of the local prescriptions. So like any of the restrictions that are not, that are enforceable at the higher level, for example, you can no longer restrict to homeowner occupancy and the ADU that gets abolished at all the local levels. So, you know, there will have to be a revision if there's not already one started. And I know the today's meeting at the Metropolitan Planning Council, they basically said that there were a lot of the towns are already well on their way to revising it. So it wouldn't surprise me if city council has already started looking at here's the changes and here's what's going to propose. I think it would be good just maybe to have a sit down meeting too with the commission and the planning board and say, yes, what else is happening? Hey, we have this idea, can we roll this into all this other stuff that you're doing so that we can say you're not missing a key item in your toolbox?
[Kit Collins]: Yeah, I'm always in favor of updating zoning ordinances like this just to make them more reflective of current housing needs, development trends, that sort of thing, and just make ordinances generally more flexible. So would this be a process that we work with the planning department of the city to help write, or are we just making recommendations?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I think at some point, rather than, I would normally say that we could probably take a stab at writing, but I don't see the need to if the mayor's office and the planning department will okay working with KP Law. I mean, Robin Stein, when she came to us for, when we were having issues with the administration of the demo delay, she always said reach out. So, you know, if we can take advantage of KP Law's expertise, and they represent a number of municipalities, they would know, you know, other communities that have these type of bylaws. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, we can pick and choose from the best communities and say, you know, here's what works, here's what doesn't. You know, not just Redding, but like, you know, all of Massachusetts. And we might as well ping Massachusetts Historical Commission and just say, we're thinking about this. Who else has this type of bylaw? Because Jen Daugherty, who's the chair of the Local Preservation Commission Outreach, is doing a really good job on all of her, basically sharing what all the communities are doing across the state. So this sounds like it might be another good topic for her to explore with us.
[Jennifer Keenan]: I feel like we should get to Alicia or City Council ASAP because I feel like City Council is about to roll out zoning changes and I'm worried that we missed the boat.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: even if they roll out zoning changes first of all i don't want to if this if this change is a potential redundancy to something that they've already planned it is fine and you know show us the key and show us the way to get it you know to roll out this in another way but if it's not and they just say okay no this isn't redundant but we didn't think about this i think it's fine to present it to the community with another change you know rather than just simply roll it out with everything i do I don't want it to get lost. I want the general public to know that it's available to them. I certainly want to be transparent about that. I know everybody says that a lot of change is happening. So I'd almost want it to roll out by itself.
[Doug Carr]: Dan, my understanding from these conversations with Alicia and Danielle in the planning department unrelated to store commission stuff is that there's a, I would say it's a, an openness, uh, to, I mean, to, if somebody has an idea for zoning at a certain site and they like it, they're going to build that zoning around that, you know, because they want, it's, it's kind of driven almost by what they think is a reasonable approach for density and mark, you know, uh, number of units and all kinds of things. So I feel like I agree with Ryan. I don't think it's not a hard and fast date for zoning that I can see from my conversation with Alicia. It appears to be a rolling thing that's going to happen. It's going to be accelerated over the next year, but I don't think we're going to miss anything. If we get this into the mix and we take our time doing it, it's going to pay dividends if we can get people behind it. And I think there's a lot to offer here. I don't quite know where the 1942 cutoff comes from, Ryan. I don't know if that's from Reading, or what do you think about that?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I think that was originally when they wrote their, well, for 42 from 95, I don't know. That might have been 50 years, but I don't know. 95, no, it might have been close to 50 years. That might have been the date that they had taken back in the day. I would say 75 years or older. I would just leave it at that.
[Doug Carr]: Why? What's driving that? Why would you not take a 1970s building and turn it into a two-family if it made sense? I'm just curious.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: It's about preserving history. We have to certify, so as part of the reading, if you read through the whole thing, as part of it the historic commission certifies that the building is a historic building national park services definition immediately starting they usually don't look at anything fifty years or all younger unless it's an extraordinary case so you know usually something that's fifty years or older that's fine i mean i'm i'd be good with fifty years if if we want to do a rolling date on that uh... you know but we're gonna there's like a a disconnect at that point than from the demo delay. If we don't have a project to the ability to review it, then why give them the tool to go along with it? make sense i will say i will say yeah the to build zoning that's the plan development district that i mentioned that the city can certainly alter their zoning to meet the demands of a particular parcel and a particular project plan for that parcel but it's not it's not small project friendly i think it's very there are restrictions and limitations and they can waive things for projects less than 5,000 square feet or something like that. But, you know, something a little bit friendlier that makes some things easier. You know, we could even say, you know, it says two-family, you know, we could even say three-family, you know, but then it kicks in a different code, right? So, as you know, the move from two to three units is a big difference. You know, we could say, you know, you could say two in a detached ADU, you know, because then it's technically two separate buildings. So.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So I think our next step should be to check with Medford to see if they're even tossing any of this around and if the answer is no. Well, assuming it's no, we should get, you know, talk to Redding and talk to whoever.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, let's hop in on the department meetings for the planning department to start, because I think that would be good to know where everybody would go and whether they think it's a good idea. If it's in with everything else, we can loop in Zach and say, you know, after that, we loop in Zach and say to city council, here's what we're thinking. Would this be something you entertain? You know, did you think about this? And if we get the green light on moving forward with it, then we can talk to reading, see what their track record is. You can ask gender already to see if there are other communities that I should be talking to to come to our meeting. And I suggested this to Jen earlier. I think we should have a board meeting. You know, it can be a posted meeting. Anybody can come just talking about where all of our different responsibilities are in the new year, like, you know, where does I'm sure some of you guys think of, like, where does section 106 come from and where does our. Where do we fall within the comments of planning review or site plan review? I think maybe just taking an evening and just talking about those responsibilities might not be a bad thing. No set agenda, just talking about all of our roles and responsibilities.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Just a refresher.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah. We could even do that in person if we wanted to.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Oh, one of the things we forgot to talk about, Ryan, the meeting dates, is people's thoughts on getting together in person again.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Oh, yeah.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Like, what are people... Ryan and I maybe tossed out, like, every other month or, you know, giving it six months and I don't know. What do you guys think? I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I like to be home, but... Doug, how does... It's also nice to hang out in person, too.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: CPC has use of the city staff. Is it Teresa that manages the OWL or is it?
[Doug Carr]: It is. We've had about 50% participation in CPC in person versus remote. And I'm not going to lie, that starts at 630. It's much harder for me to make that in person. But also Mondays I'm in the car and the rest of the week I'm in Boston on a T. So it's a little, sure it's different for everyone. So I mean, we should try it, but I think we need to have the capacity, obviously. It's just like the people attending in person or remote, because we're getting a really mix of both for CPC. And that's for most of the last, most of this year, actually.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Well, one of the things that we haven't looked at either is like just even room availability, you know, since, you know, we used to obviously have 201, like pretty much standard. And I don't know now, you know, who's booking what and when and all that, so.
[Doug Carr]: Well, Dennis would be able to tell us that.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, I mean, we can check, but I don't know, Peter, Eleni, what do you, do you guys have any thoughts on meeting in person?
[Kit Collins]: I mean, maybe if it's, you know, a meeting where, I don't know if it would work better if there are a lot of members of the public present or if it would work better if it was just us and we had like other items to discuss like the zoning ordinance. But yeah, I'd be open to doing it, you know, here and there.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, as long as people have the ability to tune in. Yeah. Because I feel like it's, People are all about convenience. I just wouldn't want to exclude people because they can't get down there. older or whatever, I don't know.
[Doug Carr]: I think we have to have the online capability.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, it's got to be a hybrid, like if we're meeting in person.
[Doug Carr]: Not first on the agenda, but fifth. I mean, she'd be down there for like an hour and a half or two hours. I don't know how local she is actually. She could be traveling a half hour. It's just so much more convenient. We get more participation. virtual, I know that. We definitely do. It's really about us interacting more than anything else. I agree with Aline. If we have a city department or we want to be across the table, I think there's some value there. But I guess I wouldn't do it just to do it unless we really had something really drawing us there.
[Kit Collins]: Like the policy refresher talks that you were talking about, Ryan, or something like the zoning ordinance, I think would be productive in person. I don't yeah I think the members of the public like being able to just tune in whenever they they can because you know we've all been to commission meetings where you know you're there for like three hours and or if you're presenting you're like you know the last one on the agenda that's like excruciating so.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: All right, so why don't we say maybe then if we have a demo delay that we know is getting a lot of attention, maybe the public hearing could be in person. So if people want to come either in person or digitally via Zoom, they could. If we have any policy, like we're having that meeting with, like, By law, and that's gaining traction ordinance. I think the right word is ordinance in Medford. Then we can certainly have a public hearing on that so that the public can come in person or via zoom because, you know, as we know, not everybody uses zoom. So some people may want to physically voice their opinion.
[Doug Carr]: But we definitely need, you know, if I assume or Dennis or somebody need a staffer to technology side has to be there because it's, it's back and forth, you know, there's, there's a little bit more work to make those meetings actually function to have a true hybrid meeting. And they have the tools in the city, but if someone's got to set it up, it's got to be set up, it's got to be working. The Wi-Fi is going to be working and sometimes the presentations and CPC are in person. Sometimes we're online and it's pretty seamless. Teresa is very good on the technology. And so she's been able to, she's like the master of ceremonies of those meetings. She's running things a lot in within the meeting, you know, that's key.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, so we'll have to coordinate that. If we think we might want to do one, obviously we'll have to work with, you know, Dennis and anybody at, you know, scheduling and making sure that we have somebody, not only a room, but somebody available to help us as well. Yeah, because the last thing I would want to have happen is that it's not well run.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I get the feeling like Historic District Commission, their staff person, Jess Martinez. I mean, at some point they have they have four new people on coming on their board. It would be great to get them to transition to a hybrid meeting. I mean, they meet in person, which is good, but they just need to continue on with the zoom, the zoom component of it too as well so. And, you know, obviously CPC will, you guys will continue on with that, so.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, and it's easier to record and put it on MCM, too.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah. Yeah, my first experience with the OWL was up in Bedford Town Hall. It's really cool how it tracks the people that are speaking and grabs the board and kind of displays, so it's neat.
[Doug Carr]: It did have one brief problem where it was, Oh, painting off the wall in the meeting. So they were frozen.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, Richard Lee was coming back.
[Doug Carr]: He was there in spirit, if not in person. That's hilarious. That's funny.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I just real quick back to the, the ordinance that we were discussing for preservation and had his hand up at the very beginning. I wasn't sure if he had anything that he wanted to add to the discussion while he was there. I know he's up walking around, but he. I didn't know if he had anything to add.
[MCM00001222_SPEAKER_04]: I had nothing particular. I think I had some observations last month about, again, the relationship between easements and whatever the historic body is, but that was about it.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, and I did see that it is residential only, and because Medford has much more commercial than North Redding, I mean, North Redding has a nice little community core, but Medford has a lot of little sub-villages like Haynes Square and West Medford, and as we know, with the city trying to increase the density in some of those locations, we might want to consider the need to include commercial properties in this, you know, Anyways, because we would, you know, you want to encourage mixed use development. That's just normal for inner city buildings, so.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, great. Does anybody have any more new business for tonight? Okay, so move on to old business. Properties under demo delay. The only one we'll have left after tonight is 27 Allmont. Peter and Doug, did you guys meet with them? You wanna give us an update?
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, we met with the gentleman. He had an interesting angle, I'll say. He wanted us to... He essentially wanted to do an end around on the demo delay. I forget exactly what his angle was, but oh, I know he wanted to build the back building first over 18 months and then demo the whole house right after that. So I said, well, you're still gonna have to apply for a demolition permit to demo that building. So I said, well, you can apply for it now, or you can apply for it in 18 months, but then it just, you know, whenever you apply for the demolition permit, that's what triggers our board. So I said, we couldn't just like, give it to you on a technicality because then I told him that every developer on the East coast would be coming over and figured out how to get around the historical commission, you know? So he seemed like by the end of the meeting, he was kind of, maybe open to it, but I couldn't tell for sure. Like maybe open to working with us and trying to maybe incorporate the existing building into a design.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, I mean, it's a demo delay, so it's no permits are issued until the demo delay expires or until we believe that he's made a modified effort. So his thoughts on trying to proceed with a building permit to build the building as opposed to... just waiting out the delay doesn't work. If he wanted to do that, I would entertain that contingent that he withdraw his current proposal with the understanding that he start over upon application. So if he applies to demo the building again in the future, he starts over and has wasted six months, eight months.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: But I'm not sure that he totally understood what we're saying. Eleni, did you have any comments on this?
[Kit Collins]: Yeah, I think by the end of the conversation, my understanding was that he understood that he couldn't do that and seemed open to incorporating the original building into the new design once we kind of highlighted what we would like to see preserved and certain features, like character-defining features of the building. So we'll see if that sunk in.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: I mean, it's really just the forward mass. I think that that's, you know, it's not a huge component, you know. There's obviously three bedrooms or two bedrooms in that space now, you know, so build an addition to the back of that and, you know, and build up.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: I mean, he was there, he witnessed the kind of process we went through with Yale. Yeah. And about raising the roof and all that. I think he kind of caught onto that raising the roof thing. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see if he comes back.
[Doug Carr]: It can't be a cookie cutter solution. He's proposing to build a building now that would literally touch the back of that building, right, which is, as Per Ryan said, that's not the spirit or the letter of what their ordinance says. So he was trying, you know, once we disabused him of that direction, that that was not going to be a successful direction. I think, as Eleni said, we started thinking that you got to work with us a little bit, be creative about the front house, come back with some ideas like Yale did, really good ideas, and she got through it. It took a few tries, but it wasn't for a lack of effort. It was a challenging situation. It needed a designer. Right. Yeah. Anyway, that'll work itself out, so we should just move on, I think.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay. Thanks for that update. Um, Ryan, are there any form B's that we need to order? I think we're caught up on everything.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: No, I ordered them. Okay. Form B for 140 Summer Street. And did you want to talk about four Grove?
[Jennifer Keenan]: Oh, yeah, for Grove Street. Um, so they've been working on this house. I drive by it four times a day. And I come home from vacation last week and the whole front porch had been ripped off and poorly replaced. So I sent a note to the billing department and I said, hey, what's happening here? And then they went out and looked at it and they said, Not only were they not supposed to do that, but what they built was so poorly done and didn't have the proper footings. He's like, yeah, the whole thing's going to be coming off again, and they're gonna have to redo it. And he's like, I'm making them get an engineer to do the whole thing. So they were going to stop what was happening there. So it was really unfortunate because the front porch was beautiful. It had these beautiful like triple columns on each side and and the base of the porch had some was covered but When I saw it all stripped off, there were big piles of boulders in the front lawn. And I thought, oh, no, it had like a stone foundation like the other house on Grove Street that we looked at. And so when I said something to the building department, And he's like, do you have pictures of that? I said, no, but I just saw the stones. He's like, well, yeah, that's a fair assertion that it probably had those stones, you know, so.
[Doug Carr]: And the columns were let go? They tossed the columns?
[Jennifer Keenan]: Oh, yeah. Now there is a single, like, pressure-treated post, and they put plastic lattice around the bottom. It's awful. It's awful. Like, all the historic detail on that porch is gone.
[8Sqy8gyjolU_SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that was a nice porch.
[Doug Carr]: It's still on Google Maps.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yes, it is. It is still on Google Maps.
[Doug Carr]: Wouldn't that be our inspiration for the restoration?
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yes, it will be once they come before us. What's the address again? 4 Grove Street. It's sort of almost on the corner, right? It's right on the corner of High Street. Yeah. And they added on a couple of little shed dormers at the top. Which I'm pretty sure I approved because they, you know, they've been working on this house for a while. In fact, I was, you know, for a while, I'm like, what are they doing? It's taking them forever. And they had the windows open for a long time, like, and it was starting to get cold. I'm like, they better, they better button up this house, you know. So, you know, I'm like, well, they're just taking a little time and they're, you know, and they've, they've, you know, kind of trimmed up the trees now and they took that hedge line out in front. Used to be you come to the end of the Grove Street and you couldn't see around the corner because there was a hedge line and they took it all out and they trimmed up the trees to the second story of the house. So now you have a nice, beautiful view of the house. And the porches, if you guys drive over here, you're going to see how horrible it is.
[Doug Carr]: You can see it on Google Street View pretty easily.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, the original one. But what's there now is just horrific.
[Doug Carr]: That's right.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So anyway, so that'll be coming before us at some point when they get their act together. Permits are going well. I don't know. I feel like I forgot. I missed last month's meeting, so I didn't tell you guys. I had a great meeting with the building department. They meet every Wednesday at, I think, 4 or 4.30. So I was invited to come to their meeting. And I sat down and talked to them and talked about kind of the things we look for and just encouraged communication. And I gave them all my cell phone number. vice versa we had a really good meeting we we were there for about an hour just talking through things and you know I just said you know They didn't have to be the bad guys if there was a problem with something, like it's on us to work with the property owner. And I think, you know, Scott is really, the commissioner is, you know, understands what our purview is and what we're trying to do. And, you know, he came from, I think it was Gloucester or Salisbury. So he's very familiar with working with historic commissions. So anyway, it was a good meeting. I feel like we're in a really good place with them. So just want to keep the lines of communication open there. So it's all good. Ryan, any update on the cemetery? Oh, you're muted.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Whoops, that was weird. Just to let people know, I sent some pictures around too on Redfin or Ford Grove. For Cross Street, I called the consultant to see where they were to try to put the foot in motion for finishing up that assessment project. So should be finished, need to be finished by the end of the year. So I'm hoping that they'll be finished by the end of the year. The consultant is under contract as is the excavator under contract for the former cross street site. So I'm just trying to set up a startup meeting with the archaeologist and the. City departments to get in the ground, hopefully before winter is becomes too bad. It's been snowing. So obviously winter is threatening and, um, up north country, they've gotten a lot of snow. So I'm thinking winter is going to come in pretty quickly. So, but, uh, PAL who got hired for that project is pretty confident that they are, um, that they can do it as long as the ground doesn't freeze. So.
[Kit Collins]: Should be good.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Thomas Brooks Park, I forget where we left off on that.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: So the archaeologist component of the project went out to bid. I have two bids, one from PAL and one from SWCA, which is a firm out in Amherst, Massachusetts. I am reviewing proposals. Would anybody like to help me review the other proposal? Happy to. I just need a second body to kind of review their scope of work. And, uh, confirm the findings cause it's, it's so very close that I just, I need a second set of eyes on it for the procurement officer.
[Jennifer Keenan]: When do we have to get back to them by?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: We don't have a deadline. It's in our own wheelhouse. Ideally we would get back to them within the next 30 days or so.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Oh, I can do it.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Okay. All right, I'll send you over the proposals tonight and you can read through them at your leisure. Okay. So we should be, we'll just have to confirm which consultant we're going with. And then we can get that started. I did start to poke the city on tree work. They're a little bit hesitant, but a little bit difficult to get Aggie Tudin out there and Tim McGivern, the DPW director out there to review the scope of work. But I'm gonna, as soon as the archaeologist is under contract there, Scope assumes they're not going to start until spring 2025. So as soon as I have them under contract, I can turn my full attention to bidding out that tree work, because the tree work can be done in the middle of winter. I think it should be done in the wintertime while the ground is frozen.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Yeah, hopefully. Well, they're going to get rid of the some of the deadwood that's on the ground, right?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Deadwood on the ground, deadwood in the trees. You should be able to see widow makers. You should be able to see all the dead foliage and pick it out really quickly. While there's no foliage on the trees, you'll be able to clearly see the dead trees that are in the park and what needs to come down immediately. It's kind of like an all inclusive. pretty hefty budget. And if I go out to bid, I'm kind of hoping that actually the bid might come in cheaper because in the instance of the excavation, when I went out to bid, it actually came in cheaper than I thought it was going to be.
[Jennifer Keenan]: So yeah, my only thought was if there's if we end up with a couple of feet of snow on the ground, it might be hard to see the piles of trees that are there. But
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, as long as the I think I'm mainly concerned about the trees up overhead the rest of the stuff once it gets down to the ground can be cleaned up in the early spring. I mean, even if they have to divide their work. I know they're not gonna want to, but we may just have to say. you gotta come back and do a final cleanup in the springtime, even if you don't wanna mobilize. But for the archeology component of it, it's beneficial to have it in there while the ground is frozen, because it's not gonna make a mess, like really frozen, not just like soft frozen. So.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay. Well, I'm hoping for a not super snowy winter, but we'll see. Yep. Cold is fine. Not snowy would be great. Okay, anything on the survey projects, Ryan?
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yes, I have. We applied for, let's do the other one, I applied for the S&P grant for Hastings Park and Hastings Heights. So we should be hearing back from them relatively soon. And then Eleni and I will look at the large application that we get if we get selected and do that. do that application. For Sagamore Vale, we had two proposals. I did not qualify the first proposal that I received because they did not include a comprehensive scope of work, so that left Claire Dempsey and John john clemson as the only qualified proposer and the lowest qualified bidder so we selected them and it's in the hands of fiona who just has to review the information and i'll follow up with her i believe she was on vacation when i sent it to her so i'll just follow up and make sure we can get them under contract because i'm hoping to get them to start work in january and then they'll have six months to finish the project great
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, does anybody have anything else before we go over the meeting minutes? No, okay, Peter circulated the meeting minutes.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Motion to approve.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, thanks Ryan.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Second.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, motion to approve the meeting minutes from November 2024.
[Adam Hurtubise]: So moved.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Thanks, Ed. I'm going to go around and do a roll call vote. Peter? You're on mute, Peter. OK, Doug?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Eleni? Yes. OK, great. Um, just a reminder of our holiday get together. Tuesday the 17th. And we're still going to go to Great American Beer Hall is the plan. I have to call them.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, we should probably call them and get a make sure that they can accommodate us. I believe there's. I believe everybody can go plus Teresa and Dennis. Yeah, I don't think Dennis is available this year. Dennis has a, remind me, Dennis, it's a show you're going to down in New York, I wanna say? Or is it Boston?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah, and that's the thing I was talking about earlier when I screwed up the dates.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Oh, all right.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay, fine, we'll miss you.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: We get Teresa this time.
[Jennifer Keenan]: All right, so there's eight of us then.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay.
[Doug Carr]: I think on a Tuesday night they're going to need a reservation for that.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Well, just making sure they don't have another party or something.
[hsUGO5ihrRw_SPEAKER_31]: Yeah, Teresa told us that we should ask them to reserve a spot up on their upper deck, because they have like an upper upper area that. They have that supposedly really nice, so OK, I'll give them a call.
[Jennifer Keenan]: OK, does anybody have anything else? OK, motion to adjourn at 812 PM.
[Adam Hurtubise]: All moved.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Okay. Motion to adjourn. Peter?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Doug?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ed?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Ryan?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Jennifer Keenan]: Eleni? Yes. All right. See you guys next week.
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