[Denis MacDougall]: But I say, no, I'm just going to read a notice. On July 16, 2022, Governor Baker signed into law an act relative to extending certain state of emergency accommodations, which, among other things, extends the expiration of the provisions pertaining to the open meeting law to March 31, 2023. Specifically, this extension allows public bodies to continue holding meetings remotely without a quorum of the public body physically present at a meeting location and to provide adequate alternative access to remote meetings. The act does not make any new changes to the open meeting law other than extending the expiration date of the temporary provisions regarding remote meetings from July 15, 2022 to March 31, 2023.
[Heidi Davis]: Great, thank you, Dennis. I will call the meeting to order, the hearing to order at 6.35. Also going to change my name, excuse me.
[Unidentified]: Changing hats right now.
[Heidi Davis]: Great, so first order of business will be to approve the minutes of November 2nd, 2022. Thank you very much for preparing them, Dennis. They were quite detailed, so thanks. Does everybody have a chance to read them?
[Marie Izzo]: Yeah. Great, do I have a motion to approve? I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as issued by Dennis.
[Heidi Davis]: You're muted, Heather.
[Heather]: Lost the connection altogether. Am I back? No, you're back. OK. You notice I've relocated. I second. Great. All in favor?
[Heidi Davis]: Alex?
[Christopher Bader]: Oh, OK. I wasn't sure if you're going to do a name.
[Heidi Davis]: Yeah, I still have to do it. Yeah. Alex? Yeah? Yes. I approve two minutes. You have to vote. Heather? Yes. Craig?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Heidi Davis]: Eric?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Heidi Davis]: And myself as a yes. Minutes are approved. The next on the agenda is Riverside Ave. And I see that Mr. Sawyer is here for representing.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yeah, good evening, everybody. I think I'm here, actually, Tom Hughes, the environmental consultants. on the call and I believe Ben Wilson, the lead architect in the project is on the call. Gabe from the Housing Authority unfortunately couldn't call in and he had to get, I think he's on another web meeting tonight. But I think I think the charge here is, you know, first off, we'll be looking for a continuous because we didn't get updated stormwater calcs into everybody. I realize, you know, I did you did request that we get everything into you, you know, at least a few days, maybe a week before the meeting. So you get a chance to review updated calcs and drainage changes. And also an update is we did receive comments from DEP, Pam Morell from DEP. So she had a fair amount of comments that we're responding to. One of which, you know, we were calling out the infiltration basin and one of the comments was that it was within 50 feet of the waterway, which that's one of the offsets that's required. That one seems sometimes it's enforced, sometimes it's not. She did comment on it. So one thing we're looking at doing or proposing to do is to switch out that for a fire retention area, fire retention area. Also, there was some discussion, I think, last time about soil type, A, B, or this or that. I did review the clipper ship regulate, the clipper ship pathway documents in stormwater calcs. And they had called out it as, they basically used the B soil for this entire area. And basically from, you know, the thing is it's not listed because it's a fill site. So we are updating the project, the entire project area for the entire site to be B soils. which some of the areas when you just dig test bits it's a little tighter, some areas it's better, it's not completely consistent. So we're going to average, you know, we're going to take their, you know, what they had done and just precedent and just call it the entire site as bee soils. Um, I have some schematic, you know, basically have a draft draft design that I'd like to show you to get any high level comments on, on what I'm proposing the changes, if it's okay, uh, to share screen, um, Dennis, I'd like to.
[Unidentified]: All set to go. All right. All right. So everyone, everyone see the screen here. Yes.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yes. Okay, great. So as I presented before, we have a closed drainage system that's going to run, you know, pick up this side is this side is in a closed drainage system. As as discussed earlier, there was the existing system had daisy chain catch basins and it's 15 inch pipe that just directed the water to the bituminous swale, and then straight into the river. what we're doing is we're pulling all these catch bait. We're actually pulling the pavement back a bit, providing deep sump catch basins with hoods along this entire area. So the entire paved area here is now gonna be all deep sump with hooded outlet hoods for our first treatment in the treatment terrain. So I'm gonna jump into some areas So one thing that we had done previously is we did some piping around here with a particle separator. I think there was comments from the commission and also from DEP about properly sizing a forebay. So in lieu of a particle separator for our pretreatment, we get our 25% of the sumps. We're gonna convey it to the swale. We're gonna have a forebay and a check dam to mitigate to reduce any velocities coming out of that 15 inch pipe. And then we run it down this grass where I think we had mentioned that before there was confusion and the plans that talked, that mentioned in the narrative that it was gonna be stone, but no, it'll be a grass swale. I did check velocity, I rechecked velocities. And for the water quality event, which is a half inch for this site, I think the, what was it? The velocities in that swale are insignificant. It's a 0.4 max or the 0.12 CFS average. And then for the 100 year event, we got to worry about scour and such that peak, the peak rate through this swale, that's the biggest concern with grass whales is velocity is that that rate is only, 1.1 is the peak with an average of 3.5. So we've mitigated the velocity. So we've made it very flat. It's only a slope of 0.35%. That's the big thing is keep it flat, slow the water down and get some treatment. I think Heidi had mentioned about live stakes in here. This well is fairly narrow. It's only four feet width with four foot flat bottom. So my thought is it's really not, I think we just wanted to keep it grasped with no additional bush shrubs or trees in there that's really not room for it. One thing that we'll be doing in the planting is including some shrubs around the bioretention area down below. So we'd be implementing that, implementing some additional grow, additional plant growth in that area. We have expanded this, bioretention area a bit. We just said we had a smaller area here. We've expanded it along between the bocce courts and the new path. So that's been expanded. The other thing was, instead of the swale, originally had the swale bypassing that forebay and then dumping into the infiltration basin, which is now, and we've changed it to a bioretention area. We're conveying that directly to the forebay. So all this area where you get deep sumps, We got to get the swale and then the forebay, which is its size to meet the 10th of an inch, the 0.1 inch over all the pavement, all paved areas. The other thing that I changed was we just had a gap in the curb here and just let the water sheet flow into the basin. So to get our primary treatment before the forebay, we installed a deep sump. We have freeboard to do that, installed a deep sump, catch basin with an outlet there. So this entire system here, we have deep sumps, catch basins, followed up by a forebay, then overtopping into the bioretention area. Bioretention area, once it's full, it overtops and then discharges to the soil here. I did review the DCI docks. I couldn't find, I couldn't, maybe the plants have been updated, Dennis had sent me the plans with the NOI, and I didn't see any detail as far as improvements of the swale here. But what we're doing is we're basically matching the elevations of the swale at that project limit. And maybe after the fact, there's been some changes as part of the construction plans there. I do know in looking at it, where the bridge launches over, they ramp up to elevation eight for the bridge, and there's a full parapet wall with a footing. So there'll be a fair amount of excavation in this area, so I'm not sure what's happening there. But one thing that we are ensuring is that we're matching that elevation at that location. I did check the cross section of this swale to make sure that the flow, that the swale can handle the flow. And I'm gonna be including that in the calculations as the bank full or the swale depth for each of the storm depths at that location where we discharge. So that's the Western, western stormwater system area. On the east side, what I'm doing is I'm pulling the, I'm going to keep this as an infiltration basin, pulling it back 50 feet from the water. So we get our 50 foot offset. And then prior to the last set we had was we are allowing the stormwater off this parking lot just to sheet flow into the, sheet flow into the swale on the eastern side of the property. We're going to now, we're going to be collecting, we are curbing that as part of the project. So we'll collect it and direct it to all of this paved area. We are expanding a small new area, but this entire 90% of it is existing pavement, which will now be treated. So we'll have a grass swale to a forebay and then into our infiltration basin. And then instead of an outlet control structure, and then dealing with the excavation and getting an outlet into the riprap revetment there and coordination underneath the DCR path. We're just gonna route it as it flows today to that swale on the west side, I mean, on the east side of the property. So that'll simplify the coordination between the path construction and our work. It definitely simplifies And as far as the water quality, we're gonna be, we meet, there's all pavement areas, including sidewalks. We'll be providing a half inch water quality. And with the B soils, there's no requirement for the one inch. We'll be adjusting our infiltration rates accordingly for the B soils in the calculations. So we'll be meeting the half inch water quality volume for the entire site, existing pavements and new pavements. And then as far as the recharge, recharge volume for the entire site, including the building between the buyer, the sumps of the bioretention area and the infiltration basin, we'll be meeting the full recharge requirement of BSOIL 0.35 inches overall, all impervious areas. So with that, we'll be fully meeting the water quality and recharge. As far as standard two, we are reducing impervious areas on the site. We're reducing it by 3,000, I believe it's 3,000 square feet. I have updated the drainage area plans as directed with her comments about segregating, making sure we have each drainage area separated. And with those areas allocated to each basin, that's been done and will be updated in the report. So with that, I believe, you know, it is redevelopment, but I do understand that in the standards for redevelopment, if you have the room to do it, Um, if there's no restrictions while you can't do it, that we should be directed to meet the, meet those standards. So that's where I'm at, um, with the updates. And I know that was a sort of a quick, quick update there. Uh, I don't know if the commission members, uh, have any comments of anything that jumped out at you. that I didn't address from your comments from the previous meeting. Could you let me know or any initial comments before I finalize the calculations and drainage plan? My plan is to have this all buttoned up and resubmitted at the end of this week or the latest Monday to be back for the December 7th meeting.
[Heidi Davis]: Good. Thank you for running through that. I appreciate that you're in a bit of a under the construct, having to try and satisfy MassDEP's comments as well as the commission's comments here. And also, so recognizing that and recognizing the limited amount of room you have at the water quality swale, I'm still concerned about that being a grass swale, which does not, so grass of course only has root systems that are four or five inches deep. And it's not going to necessarily provide the stability that even native grasses might provide in such an area. And it sounds like it's just going to be mowed, you know, easiest thing possible, mowed and maintained. So I'm not, there is nexus. I'm not sure if you're aware, Stephen, if there's nexus. with a project that was proposed for this area by the Conservation Commission that would have contributed more to the interests of riverfront area, including plantings and some sinuosity. So that project seems, this project is very different from that, does not meet the intent of the Community Preservation Committee grant, I feel, because it's just going to be a mode stormwater BMP feature without, certainly I know that infiltration trenches provide some interest towards stormwater prevention, et cetera. So one comment is, is there any ability to plant, if you can't put two blinks there, okay, I understand it's a very narrow space, but is there an alternative to, lawn, lawn grass.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yeah, actually, too, but we have smaller tubelings. You know, I guess as far as I was thinking of larger plants, smaller tubelings, I believe we could we could get that in there. I could, you know, work with Tom and Curtis on what what we could get in there, what can be reasonably maintained, reasonably maintained. Um, I, I don't, I, you know, one thing that I don't think we should forget is, you know, we're providing a large bioretention area, which that would, you know, with that, we're, we're, we'll be getting a lot of vegetation that probably would have been in that swale will now be there. Um, which is, I think would be in the, you know, that kind of serves the interests of that, um, of the intent of what that swale project was, um, or, you know, where we're adding this larger stormwater treatment area. Uh, I can. you know, I can look at, you know, perhaps it could be banding of, so you have grass and then some banding of tubelings, you know, alternated through, you know, we have about, I forget, we have about 80 feet or 90 feet to work with there. So instead of a check band, maybe, you know, instead of check dams, do like a vegetated tubeling banding. that would, you know, every 20 feet or so. So you'd have some grasses and I'll look at some, you know, I'd be looking at the type, not a manicured lawn type grass, but a grass that we probably mow seasonally, maybe twice a year, or just go in there and maintain it twice a year or something like that.
[Heidi Davis]: Like an erosion control mix or something like that.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yes.
[Heidi Davis]: Yeah. Well, that's good to know. Great. I would appreciate your evaluating that. Thank you. And I know it's a balance between trying to have something that can be maintained and also provide stability of the bank there. One other comment I had, and then I'm sorry, I'll turn it over to my commission, but I'm concerned about the lack of provisions for carrying the swale underneath the boardwalk. There is some information regarding that. And of course, it depends on the timing of the clipper, when the clipper ship walkway will be constructed versus when this will be. But at this point in time, so DCR agreed to pull up the asphalt there, but there needs to be a final treatment through there.
[Steve Sawyer]: HAB-Michael Leccesereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Yeah.
[Heidi Davis]: And so I asked them to remove the bituminous. They said they would. So there's a plan note that they'll remove the bituminous.
[Steve Sawyer]: Then what happens?
[Heidi Davis]: Then we'd have to figure out some very quick stabilization, but it's the long-term stabilization that I'm interested in.
[Steve Sawyer]: So the problem is if we're not in there before them, you're going to have a bridge. There'll be a bridge over it.
[Heidi Davis]: Yeah. Um, so anyhow, we need to think about this further.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yeah. I definitely will be looking, you know, said something that is, you know, we're going to have to be in coordination with the contractor who's or DCR and their contractor, um, regarding their work, our work in, in, in ghetto handle or the, or the phasing or the phasing of it. And so we're not everyone's that could become a disaster. Um, so we'll, We will take that into consideration.
[Heidi Davis]: Yes, that could be challenging. I do have a contact at DCR for this project if you're interested.
[Steve Sawyer]: That would be great.
[Heidi Davis]: It is Stella Lensing. I think it's L-E-N-S-I-N-G. Dennis, do you recall? Hang on a sec. I can call that up.
[Adam Hurtubise]: That would be very helpful.
[Heidi Davis]: Yep, that's the correct spelling. So it's stella.lensing at math.gov. And she's the person I've been in communications with there.
[Unidentified]: Okay. All right.
[Heidi Davis]: And so, and commission, do you have any other, any questions?
[Craig Drennan]: I've got a couple of questions if I can. I definitely like the revision of that western swale to have it terminate in the forebay instead of having a berm in the middle. And I also quite like the revision of the eastern infiltration basin to just join into an overland ditch. I think that'll also cut down on maintenance over time. My quick questions I have are doing a quick look at the plans that were submitted with the NOI. the swales are called out for going to Heidi's comment about stability, a one-to-one side slope, which may be a little steep.
[Steve Sawyer]: Yeah, that would be too steep. Yeah, definitely not a one-to-one slide. It would be too horizontal to one max, I believe.
[Craig Drennan]: Okay, great. With the western, I can't get my direction tonight, With the Western sediment floor bay, now that we have a pipe discharging directly to that, is there any provisions for erosion control at end of pipe?
[Steve Sawyer]: Yes, we do. Yeah, we'll have, there'll be stone, there'll be a stone riprap or trap rock riprap at the outlet.
[Craig Drennan]: Okay. And then in terms of the comment from DEP on that 50 foot setback, It might just be useful to add a 50 foot set back line here just for like an easy kind of proof of compliance. Because I think with switching the Western system to bioretention, if that bioretention is still being used for infiltration, you may still run up against that buffer. I think that's just for infiltrating practices.
[Steve Sawyer]: No, it's actually, it's only for large, That 50 foot's only for the large infiltration basins. One thing I did note is that I noticed that the clipper, the clipper ship, they were using infiltration basins or infiltration leaching basins all along that bank, which that's an infiltration BMD and it's right on the bank. That bioretention areas are okay. There's no, the 50 foot, It's funny that 50 foot applies. What I see is just for open infiltration bases and that's it. So we're okay. We're okay. I think that the thought is that an infiltration base and the water gets, it's a much more rapid, you know, much more rapid infiltration, whereas a bioretention basin in your treatment media is much narrower, whereas in a bioretention area, you have a minimum of 18 or 24 inches of media that filters the water before it gets into the ground. So I think that's why that we're okay with the bioretention.
[Craig Drennan]: Okay. When you resubmit the plans at the end of the week, it may just be worth kind of noting that in the letter that goes in just to explain that.
[Unidentified]: Yep.
[Craig Drennan]: Cool.
[Adam Hurtubise]: That's it for me.
[Unidentified]: Thank you.
[Heidi Davis]: Okay, great. So we have a request to continue this hearing.
[Steve Sawyer]: Oh, Heidi, before that, is there any, I guess, as far as high level, like as far as the landscaping or any other items, any other issue or any other aspects of the project that the commission has any questions on, so we can be prepared for the seventh meeting? Or is it pretty much, we're okay? Let's get the stormwater buttoned up.
[Heather]: I covered my concerns in the last meeting. Nothing has changed.
[Craig Drennan]: OK. I'll probably take another look at the design when it comes in again. But those are the big ones that I had.
[Adam Hurtubise]: All right. Sorry.
[Heidi Davis]: That's OK. Do I have a motion? A motion to continue this hearing?
[Christopher Bader]: I make a motion to continue the hearing until our next meeting.
[Heidi Davis]: And I'm sorry, Dennis, what would that date be?
[Unidentified]: December 6th. It'd be December 7th. Great.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I'll second that motion.
[Heidi Davis]: All in favor of continuing the hearing to December 7th. Alex? Aye. Heather? Hi. Craig.
[Unidentified]: Hi.
[Heidi Davis]: Eric.
[Unidentified]: Hi.
[Heidi Davis]: And myself as an I. Excellent. We'll see you in a couple of weeks then.
[Steve Sawyer]: Very good. Thank you, everyone.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you for coming tonight.
[Heather]: It was nice to see how much work they did before coming back after the DP that was good.
[Heidi Davis]: So our next item on the agenda is the notice of intent for.
[Unidentified]: The gas line, yes, I was trying to who was the applicant.
[Heidi Davis]: for Boston Gas Company. Great. Who is our representative?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Heidi. This is Carolyn Gorse from BSC Group. I'm here to represent the Boston Gas Company. Excellent. Thank you for coming tonight. Of course. It's always easy when they're virtual. Yes, exactly.
[Heidi Davis]: If you could summarize the project for us, we'd appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. So this is a gas line installation project along Winthrop Street and South Street. I can share my screen and show the plans if you'll turn on that ability. OK. So again, I said Winthrop Street and South Street in Medford activities involving horizontal directional drilling. I'm going to refer to that process as HDD going forward just to keep it simple. Crossing underneath the Mystic River This is part of a larger project by the Boston Gas Company to install gas lines along South Street, Winthrop Street, George Street, and College Avenue. Work, as you can see, the gas line extends off the screen down on Mystic Valley Parkway here and along Winthrop Street over here. The rest of the project is outside of jurisdictional resource areas. So this notice of intent focused just on this area. Areas which are subject to the notice of intent here are the 200-foot riverfront area associated with the Mystic River, 100-foot buffer zone to both bordering vegetated wetland and inland bank, and also some temporary work within the bordering land subject to flooding. Now we have these two work areas proposed on either side of the Mystic River. These are to facilitate the entry and exit points of the HDD process. And for a little bit of background as to where this is coming from, why this project is being proposed, National Grid and Boston Gas Company strategically install and update their utility assets to conform with updated standards for safety and to plan for future needs. So this project is anticipated to serve the needs of a larger population of gas customers with developments in the future as reliably as possible for as many years in the future as possible. So when they were considering what to do at this crossing, where to install this gas line, they considered a few different alternatives. The first option would have been to attach it to the bridge here. When they reviewed the feasibility of doing that, they coordinated with MassDOT. This bridge was identified as needing to be replaced back in 2005, and it has not been replaced since, and there are no immediate plans to replace the bridge. So it's in poor condition, in a state of a bit of disrepair. The existing water and gas mains are attached underneath the bridge, and those beams that hold them are also not in good condition, and it would not be safe for an additional gas line to be installed under here, also with the bridge being potentially replaced in the next few years. That was a consideration for time and money. Another consideration was to construct a separate utility bridge prefabricated steel truss immediately east of the existing bridge. This option was more expensive, potentially unsightly, would have to be rebuilt when this bridge over the Mystic River is rebuilt and would require additional permitting with MassDOT, DCR and other entities to have a structure on the shore on both sides of the river. Third option that they considered was jack and boring under the river, but there were issues with the depth that would be required to jack and bore under the river and issues with water infiltration, water intrusion into the conduits and gas lines. The HDD option involves a steel casing around the gas main, which would eliminate the issue of water infiltration into this gas main. And so finally the horizontal directional drilling, HDD, gave them, there will be a significant excavation involved with horizontal directional drilling. However, it will be shallower than Jack and Boar and overall the environmental impacts would be significantly less than the above ground alternatives in the longterm because all of the work is subterranean. So in addition to this notice of intent, the Boston Gas Company is coordinating separately with MassDOT, DCR, and the Medford Garden Commission about this project to attain easements and other permits, DCR access permits. I'm not exactly sure the status of those Coordinations, I know there was talk with the Garden Commission about this entry point being partially located within the community gardens and restoration efforts that would need to be done to improve that space after it's been excavated. I know that was a big consideration. Let's see. But again, all of these impacts are temporary. Excavation in the area would be restored after the work is done. So our notice of intent went into detail about how the activities conform with the riverfront area performance standards. Best management practices will include erosion controls installed before any of this work is started. Restoration, a HDD contingency plan to prepare for if any complications arise with the HDD drilling under the river. Again, those erosion controls will be installed before the work begins. They anticipate that once mobilized, it will take approximately three to five weeks for them to complete this HDD process. We don't have an estimated start date yet. We are initiating the environmental permitting a little bit early. And we do anticipate that getting the DCR permits and the easements to construct on this piece of land will take a while. Um, but that's something I can keep in touch with the commission. If you, if you guys want me to on start dates and when that is planned, we included HDD plans, photographs in this notice of intent. I can go over any of those. With you right now. Um, we did get a DEP file number number 2 1 5 0 2 3 2. I didn't see any technical comments on that from a DEP. We notified the abutters on November 4th via certified mail using the notification that Dennis provided to us for the local newspapers. And at this point, I would be happy to answer any questions you have as best as I can. Great.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you, Carolyn. I just wanted to point out that DEP hasn't reviewed the notice of intent yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, OK.
[Heidi Davis]: So the boxing technical review has not been checked. That's right. but it doesn't mean that there will be comments, but I just wanted to point that out. Thank you. Great. So thank you for that. And I'll ask, so commission members, do you have any questions for Carolyn?
[Heather]: I have several. Okay. Okay. Number one, when, what is the date timeline for this anticipated potentially for this project? HAB-Juliette Boone, COB.:
[SPEAKER_00]: : Potentially next summer, but, as I said, the easements might take a while to get in these dcr permits, so I don't I don't think they have an exact start date.
[Heather]: Basically looking at summer and I'm specifically looking at the especially the garden plots. I'm assuming that those would mean that there would be a number of plots that would be impacted in by this during the growing season. So that's just something that needs to be taken into account with regard to notifications. I know you're going to have questions. Other question that I have, and basically that section of the garden was done in a few years ago by another project, and I know there was some concern, so I just want to bring that to your attention. Number two, the gas line that is currently going across that bridge, will that be incorporated into this project and therefore will no longer be going across the bridge as of the completion of this project?
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a good question. I do not know. I can find that out for you. I'm not sure if that existing gas line is owned by National Grid or if it's owned by Eversource. So I can find that out for you.
[Heather]: I would, especially since we're looking at a bridge that is apparently not safe. So that's sort of intriguing. Yes. I don't have any other questions immediately because I am familiar with the success of the last project along this line further down the river. which actually was quite successful and was not as disruptive as I thought it was going to be. It was quite impressed. My concern is primarily for the garden plots. And I know that you really need to do some discussion there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. Are you referring to the Eversource project that's in the same general location?
[Heather]: Or is there a difference? There is an Eversource, yes. Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-Karen Hollweg, OSBT-K It would be nice for it to get taken care of if we can in this one project and not have it, you know, have to deal with it later. So that would be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right. Well, I assume that that will be dealt with at the same time as the bridge maintenance, but yeah.
[Heather]: Yeah. Thank you much. Of course.
[Heidi Davis]: Anybody else?
[Craig Drennan]: I have a couple of questions if no one else does. Looking at the NOI, it referenced that the erosion and sediment control plans for the project were included in Attachment B, but I didn't see anything except for a delineated work area. I know there were details for ENS measures, but nothing on a plan view showing placement.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have plans showing placement yet, but we did include typical details. for the erosion controls in attachment B. Examples of installation of hay bales, straw waddles, dewatering areas, inlet protection, dewatering bags, et cetera.
[Craig Drennan]: OK. I place that might be something that we want to see. I'll defer to the rest of the commission on that. But the other question I had is looking at the contingency plan for inadvertent releases. The contingency plan included a lot of emergency kind of landslide measures, things like hay bales and other, you know, things if there's a release on land, but I didn't see anything about deployment of things like turb curtains, if that release is in the water. Is that something that could be added in?
[SPEAKER_00]: I will look into that. Um, so I think where those releases would happen. I suppose there's a chance of it happening underwater, but I think that the places of the highest concern would be where the angles are of installation. I think that those are the highest areas of highest concern. OK. But that is something I can look into for you. But what would happen about releases underwater? Is that a concern, an active concern? and what we would do. Yeah.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you. Or is it possible for us to condition the project to address that too? We have to think of that as well. And along those lines, if we were to condition this project, I would like to see something about, and Dennis, I asked you this question, but I'm not sure the answer. I don't know if we have a standard condition like this, but we should have something that's to the effect that any release of oil or hazardous material accidental otherwise including sediments shall be reported in accordance with the MCP to the construction supervisor, MassDEP, wetlands and wasteland cleanup and the conservation commission. Dennis, is that something we usually include?
[Denis MacDougall]: So I had actually started doing that before the meeting started, and she said send now, but I can put it in the chat what I sent you.
[SPEAKER_00]: National Grid does have some language about that in their own best management practices and construction procedures. I might be able to dig something up for you.
[Heidi Davis]: Yeah, we could cite those. Great, thank you Dennis. I didn't see that in the chat.
[Denis MacDougall]: I just literally just sent it.
[Craig Drennan]: And Heidi, if we could put requiring an ENS plan, just when it comes available in the order of conditions as well, that might be something to think about, just so we have it.
[Heidi Davis]: What kind of plan did you say? I'm sorry.
[Craig Drennan]: Erosion and sediment control.
[Heidi Davis]: Oh, in the erosion, yeah. Okay. Well, I had another question about erosion and sediment controls also. Sorry, I have to get back to... Trying to find my document, sorry. The section 3.2 on entry and exit pit excavations. Excavated material will be either removed from the project site or stored in an upland area for use as backfill. I think prior to construction, we don't want confirmation of where excavated materials will be stockpiled.
[Unidentified]: and that, of course, they will have erosion and sediment controls associated with them as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can definitely do that. That's a typical practice to surround sediment piles with erosion controls. And I assume they would be somewhere in these staging areas, but this is all within the riverfront area as well.
[Unidentified]: Great.
[Heidi Davis]: So we would also probably, were we to condition this one to have a condition regarding the dewatering discharge and ensuring that any discharge is free of turbidity. I don't have a standard one at my fingertips, but I don't remember and perhaps I'm wrong. I don't remember seeing to watering discussed in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was in one of the BMPs, again, zoom over there. Just typical details about it being located in an upland position, surrounded by erosion controls, filter bag, or usually if more, for these larger projects, instead of a filter bag, we would do something like a, or what's it called? Sedimentation tank, the frack tank, yeah.
[Christopher Bader]: So are you expecting, because this is, are you expecting to get a lot of need for dewatering in this project? Because it is a directional drilling project. I think with the other one, there really wasn't very much. I mean, you had the other, I think the Eversource one, they had a large frack tank on site, but I don't think there was, anyway, are you expecting to do a lot of dewatering?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't believe so. It's really dependent on the environmental conditions at the time, if it rains a lot. So I mean, we have best management practices in place and usually on hand and instructions for crews if dewatering is anticipated, but a lot of that is based on environmental conditions at the time. We like to be safe.
[Unidentified]: Anyone else?
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah, I have two more, just two more little questions. If you could scroll back up to the map, you have that, there we go. So the drilling is gonna take place from the north side with the garden to South Street. Correct. Right, and so the major sort of Your initial setup is going to be in the area there. Yeah, where you're at. Now, there are a few trees there. They're not really coming out on this picture. So I was really just a little concerned about the equipment, you know, hitting or damaging those trees there. Are you going to sort of, you know, put the wooden barriers on the trees to prevent that from happening, prevent that damage?
[SPEAKER_00]: We absolutely can. I double-checked with forestry beforehand to make sure that no tree removals were a part of this process. And that's true. No tree removals are a part of the process. But we can definitely put protections around those trees. And if you put that in the conditions, we can make sure that happens. Protections for the trees.
[Christopher Bader]: Great. You had another, Alex? No, those were the two. I just wanted to confirm the direction. Yeah. Entry and exit. And I was just curious, is this little red star there on Winthrop Street, what does that denote? Not there, to the north?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that little star.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. Does that denote something special? That's the North Star.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not in our legend. I missed that somehow. You know, it's not a symbol that I typically see on our maps. I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know what that is.
[Christopher Bader]: Usually it was a star means it's something important. I'm like, didn't we overlook something? I mean, it's- It's far enough outside. Yeah, our jurisdictions, but I just was wondering if there was some connection. Okay, we don't know.
[Unidentified]: I'm not sure. Something I can look into though.
[Heather]: Ask our GIS people. And I do have another question. Thanks. It appears that the pipe will be going literally right under those trees. I believe I have a garden plot there. So I happen to be fairly. I believe the dark, the dark color is in fact, a group of trees there. I know.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Heather]: So I was just better when you blow it up, it looks as though it might be going around the edges of them. But again, if you're going to be checking and looking at protecting those trees, I would be curious to just know where the pipe is in relation to going under them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. Yeah, we wouldn't want to damage the roots or anything.
[Heather]: And it does look like you're going to be in one, two, three, at least three or four plots. Is the purple line that you have outlined there what you intend or anticipate impacting within that garden structure?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. That is the limit of work.
[Heather]: Because that's going to have a big impact on a couple of things there. So again, I would just urge you to make sure you get all this clarified. And I know there are some people on tonight that are taking a look at this from the committee.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I know that Boston Gas Company and National Grid are having direct conversations with the Garden Club and the Garden Commission.
[Unidentified]: Yes, the commission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so there will be more discussions about that. We certainly don't want to impact things for longer than we need or permanently. Hopefully, this will be temporary impacts. Again, the whole process, three to five weeks, should be done, and if it can be done at the end of the growing season, I'm sure that they'll take that into consideration.
[Heather]: That would be, yeah. The end of the growing season, I'll be honest with you, we still have growing season going on, although most of the gardens just cleaned up last weekend, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but do people have plots year after year, or are they reassigned every year?
[Heather]: Yes. There's always, there's a long waiting, well, there's a lot of people who are interested in getting into the garden. People do tend to hang on to them for, multiple years, but we always have a few openings every year. Yeah, well those conversations are ongoing. Yeah, I'm not the spokesperson for the garden, I'm just interested because I see it as impacting and I know it's going to be an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was one of the first things I called out when I reviewed this project, so we will be on top of it.
[Heather]: Okay, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[Heidi Davis]: Great, are there any further questions from the commission at this moment?
[Marie Izzo]: Nothing substantive.
[Unidentified]: I'm just curious, do we need a landowner signature? That's an interesting one.
[SPEAKER_00]: From DCR?
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that's a separate permit. That's the DCR access permit.
[Marie Izzo]: Yes, but on the NOI form, the landowner is different than the proponent, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: True. I did that based off of previous work that we've done on DCR land and since the conversations have been initiated with DCR about this property and we are getting that separate permit for it. We haven't previously gotten DCR's permit signature on notices of intent for projects like this, but.
[Marie Izzo]: I guess that seems a bit odd to me, but I would certainly defer to my colleagues on the commission if they have any specific thoughts about that. But beyond that, no, I have no substantive comments on the actual project itself.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you for bringing that up, Eric. I can't recall if we've required TCR signature on notices before. Dennis, do you recall?
[Denis MacDougall]: older, I'm looking at some older projects and I was trying to find the old Eversource NOI from six years ago, which is the exact same project. I'm like, give me a, so I'm just scrolling now.
[Craig Drennan]: If they're seeking a separate permit from DCR, then I mean, that would seem to me if that permit's granted, then that's like not an equivalent, but it's like similar to a sign off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we certainly can't start work without their approval. In addition to the DCR access permit, I believe they're also looking for an easement. So there will be extensive coordination with DCR. And I assume there already has been, I just haven't been part of it.
[Heidi Davis]: All right, Dennis, while you're checking for that, I do see we have a member of the public here. So I wanted to see, and if you could give Ms. Altman, if you could please state your name and your address, and if you'd like to offer a comment or a question, please do.
[nMlCJNUIswQ_SPEAKER_18]: Sure, okay. My name is Susan Altman, and I live at 201 Winthrop Street, which is right at the corner of South Street, so right at the bridge where you, Yep, yep, right there. Yep, yep, the smallest house. So the one, a little, yep, that one. Hi. Hi. So my partner and I are the gardeners of the garden that is poking into the street there. We call it the bump out garden. And I have a very small concern, which is, will your excavation have any impact on the garden? Will you need to dig anything up in the actual garden?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the excavation within the roadway here will be contained to the footprint of the paved roadway. Looks like it's on the farthest side of the road that we can get from this little bump out. And I believe that's to minimize the number or the severity of angles that have to be made. in the gas line. But right now, typically, no. We don't go outside of the existing paved footprint. And if we did, it would have been on the plans and we would have permitted that within, because it is within riverfront area and buffer zone.
[nMlCJNUIswQ_SPEAKER_18]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we plan to stay far away from it.
[nMlCJNUIswQ_SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well, there's only 15 feet, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, OK. That's true. It looks like from the aerial views, it looks further than it actually is.
[nMlCJNUIswQ_SPEAKER_18]: Yeah. Yeah. OK. Thank you.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you. So I'll bring discussion back to the Conservation Commission. And Dennis, were you able to make any headway?
[Denis MacDougall]: I'm still scrolling through. Actually, I'm looking through old emails.
[Heidi Davis]: Okay, so let's put that question aside for a moment. Does the commission feel that this can be approved with conditions or is there more information that you feel is necessary for us to continue this?
[Christopher Bader]: I'm satisfied with what we've got in front of us.
[Heather]: Yeah, Heidi, I agree with Alex. And we also have had the experience of a very successful similar project. So I lean in that direction.
[Craig Drennan]: I think with the conditions that we've kind of discussed so far, I'm happy with it.
[Unidentified]: Same. I agree.
[Heidi Davis]: Great. And I agree as well. Dennis, we've mentioned several conditions. I'm hoping that you can help us recall them all at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've taken some notes, too, on some of the smaller questions, like the tree protection and the red star. And I can follow up with Dennis in an email to address that.
[Heidi Davis]: If you could let us know. We're just dying of curiosity here at this point.
[Heather]: Clearly, it's an alien something.
[nMlCJNUIswQ_SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[Heather]: Right there. Special mailbox, maybe?
[Unidentified]: I think those were pretty much it.
[Heidi Davis]: Dennis, did you take any notes on any of the other conditions?
[Denis MacDougall]: The one about the spill, which I kind of put into the chat, and then also I sent an email to you. You had some extra language in there about notifications that I'm going to include. mine. The other one was about erosion controls. And we actually do have one of our standard ones is before any construction activities begin on the site erosion control barriers shall be installed by the contractor. you know, as discussed, and no work shall begin if these barriers are not properly installed and approved by the Metro Conservation Commission. So basically, it's when the emergency controls are put in, you contact me, and then I go over and check it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can do.
[Unidentified]: There was another.
[Denis MacDougall]: I think it was mostly in the spill. Well, the spill we sort of discussed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Location of stockpiles and dewatering areas.
[Heidi Davis]: Yes, prior to construction. Yes, please identify or Boston get the proponent shall identify locations of. Excavate stockpiles and dewatering. Components.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can do that at the same time that we notify commission about the erosion controls, if that works for you.
[Heidi Davis]: Yes, absolutely. And I'm sorry, did we want to include a tree protection condition? Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. We got that. Great.
[Denis MacDougall]: All right, so the four that I have are dewatering, erosion controls, spill controls, and tree control. They'll be better written than that. Right.
[Heidi Davis]: In your citations, Dennis, do you cite the notice of intent and the plans, or just the entire notice of the application package? Or how do you do that?
[Denis MacDougall]: What do you mean? In this supplemental order? Is that what you mean?
[Heidi Davis]: And I'm sorry. I'm not familiar enough with how our orders are structured. But usually, a order of conditions will cite plans.
[Denis MacDougall]: PB, David Ensign — Her. He. Him. PB, David Ensign — Her. He. Him. PB, David Ensign — Her. He. Him.
[Heidi Davis]: Do I have a motion to issue an order of conditions?
[Craig Drennan]: I'll make that.
[Heidi Davis]: If you could be more specific, are you making a motion to issue an order of conditions allowing the project or denying it?
[Craig Drennan]: The first one.
[Heidi Davis]: OK. Excellent.
[Denis MacDougall]: Carol, if we just jump off the share screen just so that we can sort of see.
[Heidi Davis]: Oh, yeah.
[Denis MacDougall]: Thank you for reminding me. Thank you.
[Heidi Davis]: And do I have a second?
[Christopher Bader]: I will second the motion. Oh, you can do it. Youth take over, please. Youth, I love that.
[Marie Izzo]: On some days, maybe. Yeah, I'll second that. Thank you, Alex.
[Heidi Davis]: So we had three seconds there. Okay, so Eric, you're in. Great. All in favor. Alex? Aye. Heather? Aye. Eric?
[Unidentified]: Aye.
[Heidi Davis]: Craig?
[Unidentified]: Aye.
[Heidi Davis]: And myself as an aye. Excellent. So I'm sure that Dennis will issue that order of conditions as soon as he can.
[Denis MacDougall]: I'll get that to you probably, I was going to say the next few days, but probably this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good. Yeah. And I'll get, I'll respond to you with some of those smaller questions as well. But thank you all for your time, and thank you for working through this with me. It was a pleasure. And I hope you have a good rest of your evening.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you for coming tonight. We appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome.
[Heather]: All right. I just want to put a quick plug in for Susan Altman, who, by the way, is an outstanding gardener. That is one of the best looking little parks, gardens that we have around. I love it. It's a perfect pocket park.
[Marie Izzo]: It's amazing.
[Heather]: She's really very good.
[Marie Izzo]: read. I wanted to commend her but seemed a bit out of place in the hearing, but I love that thing.
[Heather]: Exactly. I will send her, I will let her clear, I don't think she's still on, I will email her and let her know that her work was appreciated.
[Heidi Davis]: It's all, we all notice. Yeah, that's great.
[Heather]: So, okay, well that was productive.
[Heidi Davis]: Thank you all so much for coming.
[Heather]: Take care, everyone. Have a nice holiday, whatever that means for each of you.
[Denis MacDougall]: Just one quick little thing. I've been talking with the folks from the pathway along the Malden River that we sort of went into that site visit a couple of years ago. They're coming back to us with that. So I'm expecting that. I'm not sure exactly when, but that'll probably be coming up soon, the actual pathway along the Malden River sort of continuation.
[Christopher Bader]: Oh, wow. I thought that was done.
[Denis MacDougall]: No, they were just, we did that, and then they were looking to try to get approvals, and then I think some things got sold, so it took them a while to get actual signatures for all of the associated properties, but they have them now, so they're going to, not quite reapply, they're just gonna basically, you know, because they never actually stopped, and I talked, they basically said as long as a good faith effort was made to continue, which they were trying, you know, we'll have to re-notify all the abutters and things like that and re-advertise, but we can just go on in the same, you know, continue. So that, I doubt we'll have it for the next hearing, but possibly, you know, given that we're looking at probably the new year or so, but they're excited to go forward on that.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[Heidi Davis]: Well, I hope you all can make it on the 7th. and we'll have to talk to you about a holiday get together at that point.
[Unidentified]: Sounds good. Yes, yes, yes. Sounds good.
[Heidi Davis]: Okay. Good night, everybody. Good night.