[Danielle Balocca]: Hey Medford Bites listeners. Before we get to today's conversation, I wanted to read parts of a press release from City Life Vida Urbana, a group working with Medford residents who are in the process of being convicted from their homes. On Friday, May 6, the Bradley Road Tenant Association rallied outside their 34-unit building, demanding negotiations with their landlord Savage Properties. They were joined by 40 protesters, including neighbors, allied community groups, and Malden tenants facing similar displacement pressure. Medford City Councilors Kit Collins, Richard Caraviello, Zach Bears, and State Representative Paul Donato also attended and spoke in support of the tenant group. Savage Properties handed out notices to quit to all tenants at will, but the residents, many of whom have lived at Bradley Road for several years, want to stay in their homes. Now more than ever, tenants and families need housing stability as Boston-area housing costs are at an all-time high. 22-26 Bradley Road is located just outside of Medford Square. The Bradley Road building was a close community for many years, and tenants often shared responsibilities like shoveling, cleaning common areas, and looking after one another. In March 2021, Malden owner Joseph DiNano sold the building to Savage Properties of Boston. A year later, in March 2022, Savage sent out mass no-fault 30-day notices to quit to all tenants at will in the building, which tenants received under their doors. The tenants with leases in the buildings received rent increases of at least 20 to 25 percent. We aren't activists. We're just residents who want to stay in our homes, says Liza Maloney of the Bradley Road Tenant Association. We come from all walks of life. Some are seniors with no computer or computer skills to search for another home, a resident on public assistance, families with children in the Medford school system, and working professionals. Some have lived here for 20 to 25 years. To ask residents to simply pack up their lives and find new housing on such short notice is an unbelievably cruel task. And for many, it's proven to be legitimately impossible. Medford City Councilor Kit Collins addressed the crowd stating, If we want to be a welcoming city, we must stand against forced displacement and against putting profit over people. State Representative Paul Donato added, this demonstrates today that we have a major housing crisis in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and we have to work toward getting affordable housing for those who need it and need it the most. We're hoping for the best outcome for these residents and for more attention to housing matters like this in Medford. Today's episode is another collaboration with Jelly Keshavan, in which we discuss last week's Leaks to SCOTUS draft that addressed the overturning of abortion rights. Since neither of us are experts in this topic, this conversation reflects our thoughts and opinions, as well as some talking points supplied by Grace Caldera. Thanks, Grace. If you have any reactions, questions, or feedback, we'd love to hear from you at medfordpod at gmail.com. Hope you enjoy. All right, so it's me, Danielle again, sitting here with Chelly. Hi guys, it's Chelly. We'll remind you my pronouns are she and hers. She and hers. Chelly's as well. So the first time that the two of us were sitting together for a podcast was to talk about sexual assault awareness month. And today we decided to get back together to just talk through some of the leaked Supreme Court draft about overturning Roe v. Wade, which allows federal access to abortion. So we kind of wanted to talk through some of the things that are coming out about that, and then some of our thoughts and reflections. So, last week we heard about this draft that was written by Justice Alito, and I think implicated a majority of the Supreme Court in voting their preliminary votes to overturn Roe v. Wade. And what we sort of know is there was what the Supreme Court was deciding was a case about a women's health organization in Mississippi that banned abortion after 15 weeks and this was at odds with what Roe currently says about abortion being legal until fetal viability which was determined to be 23 weeks. So siding with the side that would limit abortion, would change, would overturn this decision that Roe v. Wade makes. And the argument that was written talks about the Constitution not saying anything about abortion, and that no such right is protected in the Constitution. And previously, the way that abortion was defended was under the 14th Amendment Due Process Clause, stating that we should not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of the law. They connected abortion to liberty. Yeah, so I'll pause there and see if you have any thoughts or reactions.
[Chelli Keshavan]: So I have, so everybody, Danielle is being super graceful with me because lots of my reactions are emotionally based, justice based, coming from the perspective of a person who has carried children. So lots of initial big thoughts. largely coming from a timeline that thinks about what would happen if men got pregnant and how indisputable this right would be in the reverse. how it would be free and it would be accessible everywhere and there would be paid recovery time and there would be paid child care for said recovery time. So that piece that just kind of male-based anger, you don't have to deal with this, you have never been asked to deal with it and frankly I don't see enough of you. to all the guys who call themselves feminists, where are you, what are you doing about this? So that piece, the level of professional and financial and academic achievement afforded to men if and when women in their lives choose to get abortions, I think it's largely considered a choice that affects women's advancement, but it also affects male advancement every day, and I don't know that we're naming that loudly enough. Also, making sure that folks are tethering the argument that says lack of abortion access really builds and maintains a lower class. And so connecting it to sort of class warfare, criminalizing poverty, building or maintaining sort of an imperial presence. You can't really have soldiers that are working blindly for the U.S. unless you have folks who have been Underserved you're not going to have the type of brain that just needs the desperately needs that support What else lots of things just some bodily autonomy we can stay out of my uterus I'm not doing this with you
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, and we asked for reactions from residents to this news, which I shared on the last podcast, but I think there was some amount of shock, which I think is normal, but also, at the same time, not shocked, which I think we sort of saw some of this coming. I think even though some of the newer justices on the Supreme Court said that, in their hearing said Rose settled law, we wouldn't try to overturn settled law. I think this argument states that there have been times that we've overturned settle law, but those were times like Brown versus Board of Education, when we're talking about anti-sodomy laws, those were things that increased people's rights. This is something that will definitely take away rights, take away some of our civil rights. And I think you said sort of... make worse some of these disparities that already exist.
[Chelli Keshavan]: And who is the Constitution written for? Is it a relevant document?
[Danielle Balocca]: Exactly.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I don't know. I'm going to say no. For me, it is not a sound argument to base current law. This should be an indisputable constitutional right.
[Danielle Balocca]: Sure, and they mentioned that abortion is not in the Constitution, but lots of things are not in the Constitution, including like women.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Including women, absolutely. I think also another sort of loud reaction for me was yes, we sort of see this coming, but also, I can't believe this is gonna be a part of my daughter's life. I remember being, you know, whatever age I was when I started to interact with what birth control meant for me, it never occurred to me that this conversation would be more difficult for her. And that was, I knew that at some point I would be a mom, fast forward whatever amount of years I am, and it's infuriating that we're moving backwards.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah, and I think that just to remember that in Massachusetts, we do have different protections in the law if something like this were to happen. And I think that's what I've been hearing is like, this will sort of turn our country into sort of two states, you know, it'll divide our country around like, where can I get abortion, where can't I? But sort of undoubtedly, the places where you will be able to access abortion, I'm sure, will become overwhelmed by those places where you can't. And, like, who's getting them? Who's still going to be able to get them in the places where it's not, where it becomes illegal?
[Chelli Keshavan]: And sort of like the, the wealthy archetype will still get a safe, like folks will still get abortions. It's just, will they be safe? And who will die?
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. Yeah. And I think always, I think an argument around choice when it comes to abortion has been about like whose life are we valuing like do we value are we because I think this is obviously like we said this is not about a woman's it's like you know directly, I think, ignoring the life of the pregnant person, right? And prioritizing this language they use is like this unborn child rather than potential life, right? But I think we hear a lot about, okay, well, if that's your value, then you need to also think about that baby when they become a person, right? How do we take care of them? How do we support them? How do we support their family, their mother? in order to be able to take care of this life that you have determined will come into the world, right? And I actually heard this really interesting argument yesterday, which was that even if that were true, right, even if we had a country where everyone's needs were taken care of in that way, abortion would still be necessary because there's still gonna be times when, you know, rape or incest, but also times when carrying a baby to term is, so harmful or potentially lethal to the person carrying it, right? Like that we'll always need that as an option in those cases.
[Chelli Keshavan]: And also like the person doesn't owe you a validation for their reason. They just don't want to have a child today. That's it. That's there are no other questions. And yes, if it were about the babies, we would have paid family leave and we would have paid daycare and childcare, and we would have school transitions, and we would have universal education. We have zero of those things, and insurance would not mean deductibles and co-pays. It would mean universal insurance. Yeah. Also, like, never mind the, like, do I get to claim the fetus on my taxes, or what's up? It's a slippery slope to make a claim around life for a, at seven weeks' gestation. That's a really interesting claim.
[Danielle Balocca]: I've heard this, like, if we're calling a fetus a life, then when do I get to start claiming them as a dependent, which is valid, right? Yes. We had talked a little bit before we started recording about what this means. You know, we talked about kind of what this means for Massachusetts, but also what this could mean for Medford. And you and I were wondering, like, how does it work, right? How do people in Medford access these sort of family planning services?
[Chelli Keshavan]: Sure. Where can I go? And is it local? And if I walk in and share what my need is, what is the response? Am I going to be sent somewhere else? How much does it cost to go there? Who will be there? I think also we touched on the notion of privacy, where something like a Planned Parenthood is foundationally necessary, but also does out a person in a certain way whereby you can't walk in, if you walk into sort of a generic hospital, you get some protection against your presence and your visit, and it's, you just have a privacy that's not afforded in a different, under different circumstances. So where is that happening in Medford, and when will it be happening in Medford?
[Danielle Balocca]: That's a good question and I think we we've talked about this before in different episodes but like sort of how this is being talked about with youth like how we talk about it and like health classes um yeah and we talk this gets back to that emotional piece but we talked about that piece around like sexual health for men versus women and you and I were talking about how uh sort of like male enhancement medicine can be so easily accessible. And I think there's some statistic about how that's covered by insurance even for like the government, right? Like our government workers. And so easily, you know, people can get it sent, that kind of medicine sent to their homes discreetly. And we were talking about plan B and like you had a little story about that.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I have so many stories. First of all, I think zooming out, I don't know that men are forced to think about how many steps it takes for women to be sexually active safely. Like, it seems like the investment is grossly, there's a gross discrepancy there. And with something like Plan B, it's expensive. I think it's like $55 right now. It's also the drug itself, misoprostol, is nauseating. So if you are to vomit, if you are to lose the medication, now we're in for another 55 bucks. Do you even have that? Now it's approaching $110. It's sickening. What's your transportation like? The logistics of really using it effectively. Do you have someone who can drive you home? You need to be on the train. It's also just cumbersome. The packaging is enormous. It's literally hard to take it out. And it's noisy. It's akin to a video game or something. The process feels very, very public. And you don't know what someone's insurance moment is like or a family moment. And where can they be seen doing what? And really, whose business is it? the questions you might get asked at the desk when you really just need to get in and out. I am of the belief if someone is asking for birth control, like talk to them about safe options and then keep it moving because it takes a lot of capital to come to the moment where you can ask for help anyways. Yeah, it's a racket. It's a racket and I don't think we are. I am working to get better at teaching men about how much it takes. Also just like regular sort of preventative monthly birth control or how invasive OB visits are. Yeah. It's a lot of responsibility.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. And it does seem like really in conflict, this idea of like, how much of is there, how much of the burden is on like a woman in that situation? And then we're, and I would say like, you know, that pressure around like engaging in sexual activity. Right. And then on the other side, like, but if you do happen to get pregnant, like here's like, you know, we're talking about eliminating all of those choices.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Sure. Sure. Um, and also like the nuance of if I choose to take something like plan B, if I choose to get an abortion or further down the line, do I, if I choose to get an abortion, how much do I say, do I tell the person that I was intimate with? What will that response look like? It's, and if I'm already an emotional place because I'm questioning parenting, like it's, it's a lot and I'm not sure where, I'm not sure where men are asked to step up.
[Danielle Balocca]: Sure. Yeah, and one of the things that I think about when we talk about limiting, you know, not just like taking away the right to have an abortion, but limiting the number of weeks that you're allowed to do that, right, Liz? Like, you know, I think about most, like some people who don't know they're pregnant, right? Like they might be like 10, 12 weeks pregnant before they realize, right? And what that means for them. I think with these changes and restrictions, how long would it take for you to actually get an abortion? So if I don't know I'm pregnant until 10 weeks, and I can't schedule that abortion, there's no one to do it for five weeks, or I have to travel to another state to get that done. What does that mean?
[Chelli Keshavan]: And how much does it cost to do the traveling? And then there's weird predatory, like, well, you should wait for two weeks, or we need to look at the heartbeat first, or all that. It's heavy.
[Danielle Balocca]: I just remember I took a class in college called the Anthropology of Reproduction and there was this case that we read about where this woman was, I don't exactly remember the circumstances, but she was pregnant and somehow became brain dead. And so the decision was like, do we keep her on life support in order to keep this fetus growing or do we lose both lives, right? it was I that was like just like a real moment of clarity to me where it was like this woman was like literally being used as an incubator yes when like you know she was going to die anyways but how do we give her that um that sort of respect and like grace and how do we respect her in the process of all that too it's like yes yeah yeah I mean it also bleeds into like conversations of
[Chelli Keshavan]: what it means for people who are ready to parent to be parenting, what that means socially, like as a larger society, that it's, there's a huge difference in folks who are ready and prepared and wanted it, rather than folks who feel taken from. And then the value of what strong parenting is, like monetarily, like if mothers had jobs, they'd make like over $300,000 a year because we just do everything, every day, all the time. And then, like, where was her life? What about her life? And even just even for people who choose parenting, what about her life? Also, like, still the paid childcare and acknowledgement of the work that goes into it.
[Danielle Balocca]: I'm getting to know some really great dads and families where there is more equity in the home in terms of caregiving and responsibility, but I don't think that's largely the truth. It's more of a responsibility, more of just limiting the potential of the mother in a lot of these situations, and we're taking away choice.
[Chelli Keshavan]: And normalizing when you look at something like a resume to say, it's not that I was doing nothing. I was building other human beings' futures. So that's what I was doing, and let me have that. And also respecting the skill set that comes out of parenting.
[Danielle Balocca]: Yeah. And I think not to mention, like, I think, you know, another scenario when, you know, there already is an existing family unit and somebody is pregnant and, you know, can't afford or doesn't want another child, right? And what that means not only for the mother, but also the other kids and, like, the family unit. I think something that came up in some of our comments, and Grace Caldera, who's like a friend of the podcast, did send us some talking points from Planned Parenthood, but about sort of what, so this was a draft opinion that came out, and so it's not decided, but it seems like it will likely be decided in June. But what are the types of things that we can do, what we can get involved with, while there's still time?
[Chelli Keshavan]: I mean, I guess my general sense would be keep making noise. Leverage the platforms or the networks that you have. Continue to be part of the conversation. Continue to call in. Ask folks to reflect on really what abortion has meant for them and theirs and why. Yeah, for folks who have dollars to move places, maybe that's an option. For other people, maybe just showing up with hands-on work makes sense.
[Danielle Balocca]: And some that Grace shared with us were, like you said, being able to support funding abortion funds. So one that she listed was keepourclinics.org. And to affirm that abortion is legal for everyone you know, spread the word with every platform and channel you have. So letting people, I think some people were probably Misunderstood this draft opinion to mean like this is now like what's happening and people still have access to abortion So if you're needing one now, like you can still obtain it at least here Keep sharing information in action so that we can be a resource to our community members So if you're hearing about actions if you're hearing about protests to just share those things I and attend when you can, also taking care of yourself. There was a remark on our last podcast about how I think there can feel like a lot of pressure to take action and to have fully formed opinions and arguments, and this is also an emotional issue that impacts a lot of us. I think about, you know, abortion, you know, luckily doesn't affect me personally very much. I mean, of course it could, but I think that this decision, as I said before, the way that it I think could have an effect on lots of other civil rights, so gay marriage, things like that, that's to me scary, sort of that bigger picture. The domino effect, yes. And I think too, like, even though we aren't a state where, you know, we'll be as affected as other states, I think the attitudes towards women, attitudes towards abortion are changing. And I think it, like, lets people talk about the way they feel about these things. And that, like, you know, I think when we saw, like, Donald Trump, like, you know, people saying, like, they always felt like this, but they thought they couldn't vocalize it. Like, when we're talking about, like, racism and homophobia and things like that. A couple of other things that I got as feedback for actions that we can take are to pressure blue state legislatures and governors to codify and expand state protections of abortion rights. Also calling Congress and asking them to codify Roe at a federal level. It sounds like this came to a vote yesterday. We're recording this on Thursday. This came to a vote yesterday, Wednesday, and it did not pass, but it sounds like there may be some pressure that the president can put on the Supreme Court or other bodies. And also running for office at any and every level. If you can't do that, volunteering and donating to candidates that support access to abortion.
[Chelli Keshavan]: All valid. All valid.
[Danielle Balocca]: You and I had a conversation, I think, on our last sexual assault podcast about calling in, and I think that's maybe what you were sort of referencing before. It's like, I think this is a topic where it does feel like there are sides, right? And so it can feel really easy to dismiss somebody else's point of view. But I think that's where the change happens, is being able to hear, OK, what is this about for you? Why is this something that you are sort of so unmovable around?
[Chelli Keshavan]: Yeah, adamant and staunch, yes.
[Danielle Balocca]: I think, too, for me, like, What I, how I think about like a pro-choice idea is it's a choice, right? I'm not saying you have to have an abortion or I'm always going to have an abortion. I'm saying like you deserve to have that access to that. If you don't want to choose that, then that's your choice, right? It's hard to sort of reconcile that there's a side that's saying like we shouldn't have any choice.
[Chelli Keshavan]: Yeah, I think that's a good sort of caveat. Like this is not about make sure that everybody gets an abortion every time. This is about make sure that everyone always can. And to kind of put yourself kind of a walk in my shoes, right? I think you can take that anywhere. You can take that to a conversation of race or whatever it might be, classism. I think when you see a marginalized moment, hopefully one of your reactions is, what if it were me or mine or my kids? Lots of reactions. Yeah.
[Danielle Balocca]: And we'd like to hear from anyone. So if people have thoughts, if people know more than us, because certainly we've done some reading, we have some experience, like life experience, but we're mostly just sharing our kind of thoughts and opinions here. So if anybody has anything else that they'd like to share or share with us privately.
[Unidentified]: Please, please chime in.
[Danielle Balocca]: Please, yeah. Great. Well.
[Danielle Balocca]: I don't know if you have anything else to add.
[Chelli Keshavan]: I mean something that could likely be thought of as provocative but in my head I keep finding myself thinking our reality is that every time that women engage sexually, we could literally walk away with two heartbeats. And so to invite men to ponder that reality, that sex always has a burden, or even rather refine that, like sperm has a burden, because we can have sex a lot, and it doesn't have the same ramification, but to really ponder what your body means for women's futures. That is probably my lasting thought.
[Danielle Balocca]: I think that's a great way to end, yeah. Well, thanks, Shelley. Thank you, Daniel. You'll hear from us soon again. Absolutely. Thanks as always to Shelley for this conversation. We mentioned some ways to take action and we put some links in the show notes to make them easier to access. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. And as always, if you have feedback about this episode or ideas for future episodes, you can email medfordpod at gmail.com. You can also subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Thanks so much for listening. Guys, what's the name of the podcast? Never Bites. Never Bites. Good job.