[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Okay, it's 4.30. Let's take a few seconds. So Madam Secretary, the meeting is declared open and in the agenda. Let us approve and make a motion to approve the minutes unless there are any objections to it.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Is there a second? I second it. Okay, then all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Minutes have been approved.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Commitments and abatements. All right, so we've got 17.25 and 17.42.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Right? What? Two of them on that call right now. Oh, okay. Okay, so there's room, is that it? Yep. All right, so... So, when do we have rooms? Okay, so... This is 1725.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Okay, why don't we address... Yeah, I can't hear anything, but I hope they can hear us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear us? Hello. Hi. Yes, we can.
[Adam Hurtubise]: And this is Gim.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can hear us now? Yes, I can. Thank you. Can you hear us? Yes.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Let's address the petition 1725. Gimel and Vernier and the 65 Ash on the street, etc. Ronnie, would you kindly give us the summary and considerations that pertain to this petition? This was a high bill complaint.
[Adam Hurtubise]: A what? A high bill complaint. Oh, a high bill complaint, actually. They got a $3,120 bill. Uh-huh.
[Dan Stoneking]: And if you can see that on the graph, it appears that they had a leak. Uh-huh. I can see it over there. And they said that they didn't have a leak.
[Adam Hurtubise]: They appealed it. The decision was denied. the meter recorded the usage, and the only thing you can really do is test it. Now they're appealing.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, I think leaks can be appealed if indeed something is wrong with the meter and the meter falsely reported something, I suppose. But there is no appeal to a legitimate leak. Whatever the meter reported, it reports.
[SPEAKER_01]: But sir, there was no leak, and we never had a leak. And if we had a leak that big, the city would have been involved.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK. So the decision was appeal without us being present, which made no sense in the first place.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Can you repeat that?
[SPEAKER_03]: When we filed the appeal, because of the meter, something's wrong with the meter. So what happened is, when I got the $3,000, when we, this is my wife, Holly Bernier, we lived together, and there's only one bathroom on the floor, on each floor. We never had any leaves. The city came, they never witnessed or found any leak, because we never had any leak prior to that or then or now. So I filed grievances. I got a letter from the water department stating that the decision, it was denied. I never had an opportunity. We never had an opportunity to plea our case. So, the question was, how did they come to this to determine this? That was behind the 1st place without us being present, or even had a chance. To meet with anybody have a meeting regarding the appeal. So that's 1 to. After we received the letter, it says we can appeal. So this is where we are now. So we are trying to do the right thing, follow steps, follow the letter instruction, and resolve this. We're not trying not to resolve this. We've been going at this for almost, I don't know, since last year. The issue here is not We don't want to pay our water bill. If there's an error, there's an error. We just want to rectify this in-house within the city of Medford, because we've been here for, I don't know, 15 plus years, 16 plus years. But the point is, there is an error. The water department came. There was no issue with our plumbing, our water. They changed the meter to a new modern meter, and our number's been reasonably adequate now. I have pictures. I should have came in in person. I have pictures of the old meter that was rusted and there was nothing wrong with our toilets. I wish I came in person, but they told me this was on Zoom only.
[SPEAKER_01]: This may have been the original meter.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We, we, we, we understand everything you just said. And, and as far as the, um, um, why this commission at the last meeting or whatever it was that it was presented, we, we asked, uh, Ron, uh, to tell us about the appeal, just the same way, just all this now. And we were told simply that from such and such a date to such and such a date as the graph shows, I don't know if you, you know, that you had a substantial leak in your house from whatever source. And it went through the meter and, and, um, uh, Ronnie Ronnie, uh, that tells us that there's nothing wrong with the meter. Was the meter tested? No, no. So Nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we have a new meter and we seem to be where we supposed to be. Well, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of the water that's claimed that was leaking, if we had that big of a leak, we would have called the fire department to shut down the water for the whole neighborhood. So there's no possible way we had a leak that big.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like 10 US, the size of that water is 10 US Olympic swimming pool. And we live here. No, do the math, do the math. Talk to your engineer department.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, I wasn't at the appointment, but Sean went to the appointment. I sent him there. As you can see, the reason why we didn't find any leaks, because the leaks stopped two months prior to us coming to the office. So the leaks stopped towards the beginning of September. We didn't go in until November 21st, okay? Sean, in his paperwork, wrote second floor toilet guts look new.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nope, that's a lie. I have pictures too. See, I was here, I'm a witness. I have pictures of everything. It's the same original toilet. There is nothing new in this house. And please, I'm trying to resolve this within the city of Medford. Trust me, I am trying to resolve this in-house within the city of Medford. There is something wrong here. We live here. There's only one toilet on each floor. It's a two-family house. I live here with my wife. If there was a leak, we would have been aware of it. I'm being sincere here.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: That may be so. I'll give you an example on my own, even though I may be on a commission here. About seven years ago, I got a bill, and it was just like you're describing, seven, eight years ago. And I said, oh my dear God, so on and so forth. So I have two toilets. I have a single home, two toilets, one on the top floor and one in the basement, so on and so forth. Fairly new toilet. And in the old days, if an old toilet was leaking this and that 24-7, you would hear it three streets away. With these new toilets, you don't hear it. So I go downstairs. Upstairs, nothing. I don't see anything in the thing. I said, OK. I go all the way down to my basement and so on. And so on and so forth. I go in the bathroom. I look. I don't hear anything. But I look in the toilet, and the toilet was on the bottom. I said, what the hell? What is that? I open the cover. And there it was. It had been leaking for two months. Actually, at the time, it was three months. We used to bill every three months. Now we only bill every two months. And we didn't have, in those days, those meter things that tell you if you got a leak or so on, you know what I mean? And I'm not sure whether you ever signed up for that program. There's an application that you put on your phone that will tell you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's called Smart Water. I'm aware of that. And RUN's aware of that, too. Do you have that? In fact, yes, we did sign up. Now that our meter works, you don't have to rely on it as much. Hold on. In fact, yes, I am aware of that. I have that. I also have email documentation for my neighbor that the smart water system sometimes doesn't work. There's glitch in the system. I have an email from my neighbors that was sent from Ron to my neighbors. Please, please. I'm trying to resolve this. So are we. So are we, sir. So are we. That's not, so we say, you say the meters are accurate, but I have a, I have a email from my neighbors. I know who it is. That said there was a glitch with the smart system. So nothing's a hundred percent. I'm trying to please resolve this with you guys in-house. So will we. So will we. We have a leak.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We have a leak. It's going on and on and on. So here's the thing. So when I saw that one, I said to myself, dear God, what the heck is that? Now, I naturally, my first thing is, oh my God, this is crazy. Something's wrong with the meter and everything else. But I let it die because number one, no matter what I did as a commissioner, I would have been seen if I tried to go for an appeal and somebody was, you know, so I stopped. I paid the bill and that was it. But that's just my story. Just to point out that I didn't know that my prologue was leaking. I just didn't know until I got the bill. You know, so, and that's how you I would assume realize that when you saw that big bills and what the heck is this, and it had to have been part of the two month thing right Ronnie I mean within those two months, the so called meter leak and so on and so forth. because it, you know, how many bills are represented within this timeframe of August, August? It's one, just one. Just one billing cycle. Yeah, there you go. So this, so it's not over two, it's not that the leak started towards the end of the first billing cycle, two months. He said, oh my goodness, look at this bill. And you look into it, you know, this literally looks as if it was between the two months, you know, and that's why you got such a high bill. A toilet or two, both of them, you know, 24-7 can add up to a lot of money, you know, in terms of a leak. So $3,000 is not unusual. This is what we've seen in the past 15, 20 years. It's not new. But the thing is that the meter, your determination is that there's nothing wrong with the meter, even though it wasn't tested? I look.
[Adam Hurtubise]: So here's the thing. Okay. Water meters, this type of water meter, it cannot over produce. It's it's not possible. It's a it's called a positive displacement meter. It fills a chamber and it dumps it out the other side. It fills and dumps, fills and dumps, fills and dumps. It loses accuracy all the time. Okay. That's the reality. I did the math.
[Dan Stoneking]: He talked about 10 Olympic pools. It may very well may be, but it boils down to 2.85 gallons per minute, which is about two toilet flushes or an old school toilet. It's less than one flush. And if you flush a toilet, it fills up to 30 seconds and then you flush it again. That's 3.2 gallons per minute. Is it feasible? Yes. What's the culprit? 99% of the time, a toilet. You know, Sean looked at the toilets. He said that the person on the second floor said they had the toilet fixed, and then the story changed and they didn't fix the toilet.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lie. That's a lie. Why isn't Sean here? You're making false accusations. Sean said the toilet was fixed. I'm just going by what he wrote on the paperwork.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, then Sean is a liar, and we have to have a discussion about that as well.
[Dan Stoneking]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not accurate reporting. It's black and white.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up black and white? So what I understand is the city of Medford as well as many of the surrounding cities and towns are right now undergoing a mass water meter replacement program. They're going to hire the volume.
[SPEAKER_10]: I can't raise it anymore, but I can move it close.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: So there we go. Much better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my understanding that the city of Medford and the surrounding cities are undergoing a mass water meter replacement program because the current meters. have surpassed their lifespans, meaning that the meters and their readings are less accurate, they're sporadic and unpredictable. That's why we're changing all the meters in all the cities and towns, including here, because it was on our own website in Medford saying, that's why we're changing the water meters. So we just changed out our old meter, which I did some research. It was discontinued in 2013. The company closed from manufacturing. We have pictures showing how old this meter is. Okay, you can't tell me that that meter was accurate probably for a long time because right now with the new meter consumption is way lower than it's been for years. So now I'm wondering if you guys have been overcharging us for years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Overestimating.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Anything they run slower. They don't run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Hold on a second. Are we talking about an old meter in that house? No, just a brand new meter. The 1 that we put in instead of the.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they put a new meter in because the old was corroded and rusted and outdated.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was that we never fixed it and it would still be leaking. We not have a lead.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing was fixed.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Hold on. So as a result of the visit by Sean, he replaced the meter, is that it? Correct. And everything's been working fine. Hold on, hold on. I want to understand this. So this leak, supposedly happened with the older meter. Yes. Correct. You said that, you know, the meters get state of the art, this and that. I assume that happened on the brand new meter, not the old meter.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: So is it possible that the old meter did malfunction?
[Dan Stoneking]: that Ron is trying to explain is that that old meter, it has the mechanism that doesn't allow it to over, right? It just doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not true. I have documentation. I've done my research.
[Dan Stoneking]: They don't run higher. They run less. They don't run higher.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes, sometimes they can still run higher. They typically will run lower, but it's not always the case. And so- Due to rust and corrosion, it can always run over.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also, I have proof. I have email from my neighbor, from Ron himself, saying there's glitches in the system.
[Dan Stoneking]: The glitch? I'm trying to- Hold on. If you want me to explain it, you gotta give me about five seconds to explain it. I know who he is. His name's Joe, right? Is his name Joe? Yeah. Okay, Joe. And there's other neighbors. I'm in the middle of speaking. I know, but don't use such verbiage, please. Thank you. Go ahead. Joe has a different style of meter than you. The meter that you are using counts pulses. As the meter spins, it counts 10 pulses every time it rotates around the dial. Joe's meter was an encoder-style meter. Instead of the reading device just counting the pulses, the encoder meter calls down to the meter and reads the register. One of the flaws with the encoder style meter that he had, the ABB that is discontinued, was they showed phantom reads when it got like a two and a seven mixed up. Once the dial moves around because it's reading a partial of a number, it reads it with an optical eye. That creates a phantom read, okay? Once the dial turns and it reads it again, it reads normal. What happened was when WaterSmart picked that up, WaterSmart picked it up and threw this huge number in, but what it didn't show was the negative consumption because it went up and then it came right back down to normal, meaning that it just misread the number one time. And he didn't get billed anything. He just saw a jump. And because WaterSmart is a third party on top of our reading system, It has nothing to do with your meter. It was a one-time reading glitch in the dial turning on an encoder meter, not a pulse meter, which you had. Two totally different types of meters working totally different. Did he have a glitch, a one-time glitch, and it went back to normal? I can show the commission that if they want. I know what he's talking about, but it happens. And we're removing those meters, but it doesn't change the dial. It's reading the back of the dial with an optical eye. May I make a recommendation?
[SPEAKER_01]: May I say something?
[Dan Stoneking]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that it's 100% accurate and there should be no issues. If that was the case, why is it a third of my... No, no, no, that's not what he said. Estimated.
[Dan Stoneking]: That's not what he said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we estimating so many of my bills then, if it's so accurate?
[Dan Stoneking]: Your bills? We didn't estimate your bills.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of them are estimated.
[Adam Hurtubise]: It says on the back of the water bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: Each bill comes, it either says it's the actual reading or it's an estimated reading. It's common that the city of Medford will determine, will estimate your bill if they don't get it correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, it's also documented in the back of your water bill, Medford, please document it says that in the back of the Medford estimate if we don't have the readings.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah. Could I make a recommendation? Could we send this meter, the meter stone, our possession? If we were to send the meter out, which we've done many, many, many times, and it's a third party, and they certify it, we have nothing to do with it, and it comes back that the meter is running accurate, what would you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would typically say that that's a great idea, except I don't know where the meter's been, I don't know who's kept it, and I can't, I can't be confident that you're going to test the correct meter because when I was in the water department last time, they just pulled in a random, they had a bunch of them laying around, they just pulled out a random one and said this was yours. So, I don't think that they know which meter is mine and I don't think that we're going to be able to test a meter and claim that it's mine and be accurate.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been doing this since last year, since November last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what almost- There's no way they know, you know where my meter is.
[Dan Stoneking]: It's not like you filed it away under- He knows where your meter is. It's right underneath his desk.
[SPEAKER_01]: So- Yeah, that's the same one he pulled out the other time when I was there, but he said, I think this could be yours, but there were other ones there too, laying around the office.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also the fact- It has a serial number associated with it. Hold on. The fact, too, that people think I said I fixed the toilet, which was blatantly lie, but nothing was fixed. So now it rises concern with me how the integrity of this is, too, because you saying stuff I did not say. So now it's going to really make me feel uncomfortable with the integrity of this. result because this is not making sense because you saying I said things that he's not there. Yes, I understand but you can't say I said something I didn't say. Now that raises concern a level of your integrity or trust because I didn't say that and nothing was fixed. You guys took the old meter out and put a new meter because the old meter wasn't working properly.
[Dan Stoneking]: He just wrote a report up and
[SPEAKER_03]: I understand why he wrote that I said.
[Dan Stoneking]: I'm not sure who he said said it, by the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Ron said it's on black and white. Sometimes people make false statements on reports. I'm not okay with people saying I said something I did not say. There's a lack of trust here now.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We are trying to have a positive meeting and making negative allegations is not the way we want to go here. People are lying. That is not what we need to discuss here, number one. Number two, we are being assured that the meter that was In question here, Ron still has it because it's been an issue. That's why he never put it back or whatever it is. Can it be verified that that meter belongs to that house? And because they all have a number, they all have a serial number. So that's one place to start. Nobody's lying. Everybody's trying to resolve this. So let us stay in that vein. If indeed what Commissioner Canelo just stated, We, all of us, me, everybody that lives in Medford, can have—assuming that you think that there's something wrong with the meter, you can have it tested. And the third-party company, those are—nobody lies over there. They know exactly what they're doing and so on. And then you come back that the meter was faulty. Then we take a look at this and say, hmm, let's see what we can do about this leak, you know, so on and so forth, and subtract anything but the normal usage. That's what we normally would have done. So here's the thing. But if it comes back that the meter is okay, and it would have tested correctly the bar, so on and so forth, there's nothing wrong with that, it would have made it infunctional, then you have to pay for that exam. I think it's $150. There is a fee. I don't know. There's a fee. I think it's either $100 or $150. But that's up to you, though. But you can request that. No, no. We're just telling you the laws. We don't make these things up. These are in the bylaws. We may be sitting here. All we can do is go by this big thing, which is all the bylaws in the city of Medford, voted upon by the council over the years and so on. That's all we can go by. We don't make personal decisions here for you or for anybody else. We just don't. Whatever the bylaws are, that's what we have to go by.
[Adam Hurtubise]: What does it cost to test them? 150 bucks. Yeah, that's so that's the charge on the resident becomes back to the past as it goes to them.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, obviously. So, um. So, tonight, would would are you would you like to have that? Tell me that that is your meter. You don't control, you know, the serial number and all. Would you like it tested?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the city of Medford going to pay for it when it comes back that it's faulty? Yes, if it's faulty, yes, of course. How do we know that that serial number belongs to my house?
[Dan Stoneking]: It says the serial number right on the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we know that that is affiliated with my house?
[Dan Stoneking]: It's the serial number right there.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It's on the work order when they came to your house and removed the pictures. Okay. I mean, you know, we have a starting point.
[Dan Stoneking]: No, I understand. Right now, the way this commission, I don't mean to take any thunder away from the chairman. Right now, we don't abate leaks. We just don't. But we didn't have a leak. We never had a leak. I know. But we're trying to establish that, is it the meter or isn't it the meter?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if we had a leak, it would still be leaking, because we never fixed anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me explain to you guys. This is a two-family dwelling. I think there might be a confusion, because someone said their basement bathroom was leaking. Each unit, there's two floors. My wife and I live in one floor. We have one bathroom on that floor. My wife's mother, my mother-in-law, and her sister, which lives downstairs on the first floor, there's one bathroom on each floor. These bathrooms are being used constantly, daily. If there were a leak, we would be aware of the leak. There were never a leak. It would still be leaking. Once they came and changed the meter, because that happened last year, around the same time the bill came, Ron sent somebody over, which was nice of him. Thank you for doing that. Everything went back to normal. So there's only one bathroom on each level. My wife and I have a level.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No, we understand. We understand. There's no leak. So that's fine. Nobody's arguing with any of that. Nobody's arguing with any of that. We don't jab.
[Dan Stoneking]: But under, I'm just, let me just rephrase what I said. Under normal circumstances, when people come in and say, my water bill is high. Okay. If there was a leak, we wouldn't pay for that. Okay. We wouldn't. Right now we have a problem that you're saying that there was nothing in the house that indicates that water was running through the toilets or water was running outside. It could be anything. I had the same problem. I know his problem. I had to say I had a leak outside on one of my it burst and it was just leaking and leaking and I didn't know it but I paid it because it's a leak. There's nothing wrong with my meter. We have to have a reference point. So I strongly suggest that we allow them to test that meter because it would be in your best interest if it was faulty, then we can do something for you. If it comes back that it's running fine or it's accurate, then I don't know what we can do because we don't abate leaks. Something that indicates that there is a leak. You're not alone. There's 57, 60,000 people. We've gone through this for many years. We have to try to eliminate the possibility that it could be the meter, and that would be good. I'm hoping that that is the problem, because right now, I don't know.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: I understand. I understand.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I understand what you're saying, but- So are you now saying that you'd like the meter tested. At least.
[SPEAKER_01]: It should be tested, but if it comes back faulty, Medford's going to pay for that test.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yes, that's why it's in our best interest that that meter gets tested and it comes back fast.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: over-accurate. Hold on. Not only will you not pay for it, obviously, but then we have an opportunity to mitigate this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll discuss our past bills prior as well, because that will mean that those were off as well. No, no. If it's faulty, it was faulty.
[Dan Stoneking]: Well, listen. If the meter is matching up to what the meter was recording prior to where the faultiness happened, then You know, so be it.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that if we compare the new consumption, everything else with the old consumption. Up to the problem. If we go into the history over here, we can see that sometimes, look at 126.22, it recorded zero. You got no bill for that month. I have no idea why. You know, other than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, because it's not accurate.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No, no, I got a bill for that. Well, that's good. No, no, no, no. In February, zero was. There was a bill for 2018. hold on we need to bring this resolution for now and move on to the next.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's inaccurate like a whole month where we didn't use water or sewage. So so so the thing. Why are we going to go pay this $500 between.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No no no it's not $500. So the point I'm trying to make is that you show consumption and consumption there's an average to all of that all of which we can take a look at when the time comes. So we need an answer we need uh are you saying can you state today that you want that me to test it as you repeat there's no sense of repeating it all over again if it's all right that's in your favor you don't have to pay for it and then look at this and and mitigate this particular leaf so to speak and that's it that's where it's going to end
[Unidentified]: I understand.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can look back on our record, not once we didn't pay our water bill.
[Dan Stoneking]: No, no, no, no. We all do. We all do. So what does that have to do with it? I understand. I'm just saying we've never been in the rear. You're coming back as being faulty is in your best interest. Yes, yes. Yes, we agree. And figure out what goes. Yes, we agree. So that's the best that we can offer you right now. Because right now, there's really nothing we can do. Because we don't live in your home. We don't know if that water was running in your tub. for days and months. We don't know that. I'm just saying, just like outside in my yard, I didn't know that a pipe had bursted in the wintertime. And by the time I got around to doing something was leaking.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Nobody's questioning your integrity. Nobody's questioning the fact that you pay your bills. We all do. We all do. And if you didn't pay your bill, the city would put it on your house. You know what I mean? In some places, they're going to collect it. That's neither here nor there. Nobody's questioning. you know even the assumptions you might have never paid a bill no nobody's saying that of course we we know for sure that you're paying your bill so that's fine so we're going to go forward according to you you want this tested yes or no because this yes yes we said yes yes okay good but and hopefully hopefully if you say i hope it comes back that there's something wrong with the damn thing because then we can you look like a couple and we understand right now we can't don't speak when i'm speaking please Right now, we know that you are very, very upset and everything else. So we get upset about these things too. We know we're human. We all live in Metro. We all go through the same things. We understand this is not the first time we hear these things. So it's not new to us. Everything you just said has been said before a hundred times in the past years and years and years. So we're doing the best we can, but we can only live by the bylaws that we are responsible for. Not the edges or personal things.
[Dan Stoneking]: So that's it. I'd just like to say one thing about the test, just so everybody understands how the test works. It's tested for accuracy. What the customer wants to see is over-accuracy, over 100%. Meters start to break down over time. This meter might fail the test at 95% accuracy because meters tend to lose function over time. In favor of the customers. No, I understand. I understand. That's why we did tests are in place. so that cities know when it's time to change the meters when they're under-recording too much. A 16-year-old meter is going to record at 95%.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: You've been saving money, in other words, all these years. Anyway, why don't we put this, you know... Can I just ask a follow-up question?
[Emily Lazzaro]: Will the test pick up and over-read?
[Dan Stoneking]: Yes.
[Emily Lazzaro]: Okay.
[Dan Stoneking]: I just wanted to... If it was possible, yes. By the way, welcome, Commissioner Monea.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: She's brand new to the commission, was reappointed by the mayor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Welcome. We started talking, talking, we didn't have a chance. So officially welcome to the, uh, to the, uh, to the commission. Uh, welcome aboard. Okay. So thank you. Is everything clear now? Which way we're going to progress?
[SPEAKER_01]: My only thing I have a question about is, um, he's talking about this 95% versus 100%. So we're, if it comes back, how do we know that it's accurate? If it comes back, say it comes back at 90%. That means it's not accurate, right?
[Dan Stoneking]: If 100% accuracy was what is actually being used, 95% accuracy is the city's losing a nickel on every dollar. Do you understand what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to know if that's accurate. It's either like yes or no. I don't like, there's going to be a middle ground here. That's a problem.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah. Did you hear what Ron just said? What you want to test is 150%, 175%, 120% accuracy. Because if that was the case, the meter would overspin. That's what you want to say. That's what you want to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's still estimating?
[Dan Stoneking]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll test it. We'll go from there and figure it out after that. OK. So, um, thank you. I appreciate you guys. Oh, thank you.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Thank you. Thank you. You have my, my, my, my concern and sympathy on all the same and hope.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for some of the clarification. Um, you know, I, I apologize. It's a little frustrating, but at the same time, I appreciate you guys meeting with us. We've been waiting for a while, but thank you for doing that.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We try to for everybody. Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, petition 17, 7, 42. You see it too. Hi, the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, I think, um. Ron forwarded the email I received from my.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: insurance adjuster that unfortunately my policy does not cover utilities. So I'm not gonna get any relief from Liberty Mutual on the water bill.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I'm sorry, go ahead.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, that's pretty much the only thing that's changed since we met back in the end of March or end of April.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: So you filed something with your insurance company, is that it?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. Opened the claim and I was pushing them hard to cover this bill, because that would have been really nice. And they were kind of elusive, but finally they said it doesn't cover utilities. So they haven't given me any satisfaction as far as the water bill. Yeah.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Well, anyway, so the story with this, Ron, if you don't mind, this happened over a period of, what, three, four months or something?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: It was like six weeks. It was that beginning of February? Yeah. Is, you know, when it was really that deep, deep cold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I came back middle of March and found the water running. So it ran for like six weeks. So we got a huge bill.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It was there, obviously, to monitor any of it. But the thing is, the thing is, as you heard us say to the couple there, the bylaws are what they are. Yeah. Because we feel like it. And the only thing for Act of God, which is a freezing, whatever you want to call it, Act of God.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: The only thing is, there's a maximum, what is it, $500 or something that we can apply towards the sewer. That's about it. You know, the water because the meter recorded the water. But on the sewer side, it was approved years ago, whenever the heck it was approved, that you can get relief up to $500. And we'd be more than happy, I would assume, commissioners, that if I make a motion that, it's not gonna help much, but it's still $500.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: But none of that water went down the sewer. I mean, I'm being billed 10 grand for water that never went through.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't matter. If you have an irrigation meter or something in your single home, that's a different question altogether. And I understand that. That's water I'm willingly pouring into my yard. unfortunately the bylaws don't cover anything other than that there's nothing there so unless the city goes on and say well you know anything that bursts and so on and so forth and that has to come from the city and so on they have to repeat and repeal all these bylaws and at that point if the whoever has a leak of that type at some point they would benefit by whatever it is i don't i'm not sure what it would do but at the moment that's all there is that's all there is that we can as a commission abide by is this relief of up to 500 usually happens in a single home you know what I mean and and so on and so forth. But when you're talking about the kind of water that you can lose in a commercial establishment and so on, that's a lot. It's a lot of stuff. So there's some of these people that we give them $500 a lot. Oh, thank God. $500 on a bill of maybe $1,500, $1,600 is good. But what you're facing is nothing. We know that. We know that. But it's yours. It's there legally. And it doesn't do much. That's the only thing that this commission can do. I wish we could do more, but we can't. That's all the bylaws allow.
[Dan Stoneking]: I have a question, Mr. Sioux, if you don't mind. Is there any financial hardship that maybe you're experiencing at all? Are you kidding me? A $16,000 bill? I don't know you personally as far as any financial hardships. We have a financial hardship avenue to go if there's a hardship on your end as far as personal.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: I am retired I'm on a limited income. It's, um, you know, short of putting the house up for sale it's like yeah this is a this is an incredibly convenient for me. The first meeting we had in April, I got a strong assurance that the sewer part could be adjusted because it wasn't something that the city had to process. I mean, you know, you're charging me for something that for water that was not processed. We did. And I understand the bylaws. But, you know, and if I was watering my lawn, fine. It's like, you know, I pay that bill in the summertime. It's like that water is not being run through the sewer.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I need to repeat the thing is, what's this about the assurances that you would entertain?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: because of the high because because the high bill you didn't say that you would look at the suicide and we would go above and beyond the 500 because it was such an outbreak it was such a high hoping that the insurance was going to help yeah that that was where we left it it was like you were you were leaning towards uh adjusting that that value there and but you know and so i went to bat trying to get the insurance to You know, I would love it if they could have covered the whole damn thing, but they didn't.
[Dan Stoneking]: I was the one that recommended that you go to the insurance first and then tell them.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Did you have any? Yeah, and that was a prudent thing to do. You shouldn't be taking, you know, giving me anything, you know, until, you know, I've exhausted all my avenues with my insurance company.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Did you have, did this leak cause any damages at all to your, in the cellar?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. My whole bit, my, I had a finished basement, the whole thing. It took them six weeks, but they threw out a 20-yard dumpster of damaged goods, my personal belongings, and they... How did insurance come into this?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Did you file a claim for this? Yeah, yes, I filed a claim. Did you take care of everything? What? And they took care of everything that needed to be replaced or fixed or?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Well, I've yet to begun the replacement of, you know, I have to put back, I had to drop ceiling, walls. I'm down to the studs in the basement. They ripped everything out because the water ran so long, there was mold everywhere. So they basically had to strip out all the walls, the ceiling. And the only thing really left to do is, you know, is get the contractor in, and begin the replacement of the things. But they have thrown out all of the damaged goods. And there was like a 20 yard dumpster of that. And then there was another, you know, 30 yards of debris from the demolition. And they but they've taken care of all that.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the overall, you know, expected roughly if you had insurance wise back of the pegs? 60, 70, 80,000?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: What, what roughly? Oh, geez. Um, yeah, I, I, you know, I have not, um, I don't, I have not gotten a, um, a, uh, estimate from them as, as far as what the total is. Uh, I, I've been, you know, they've been, they were overwhelmed when I opened the claim because of all of All of the stuff that happened, all the claims they got due to leaks and things. So I've been having a difficult time getting responses from them as far as that. But yeah, it's probably going to run into that level. I have no idea what they what they charge. They had Stanley steamer coming in for the, you know, the to dry out the basement and to remove all the debris and then to do the demolition. And I have no idea what that bill was. But it was over like four weeks.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: There are still things that come into these things, you know. I go to Florida for three months and I shut my water off, as does just about every person that I know when they disappear, especially in the dead of winter. Considering the fact that this wasn't done, you know, that's something that you have... My furnace requires that the water be kept on. Let me finish. Let me finish. after the boiler. The shutoff is after the boiler. It always does the boiler, that's it. So this leak would not have gone on and on and on, you know, it burst. So here's the thing. I don't, me as chair, I don't mind, you know, going beyond if this is somehow we thought we discussed it to see, my goodness, look at this, a single home, you know, who wants an act of God? You know, we all understand, but we also have to take responsibility for what we do, you know, when we leave a home unattended. especially in the dead of winter. So what the maximum now in the books is $500. Where could we go to double it? I mean, what can you do to this? And we have to be very careful about setting precedent over here. Because if you do this, if somebody else is going to come in and say, whoa, you double for this guy. You know, that's the problem that we have as a commission.
[Dan Stoneking]: We can't just... Well, that's why I was trying to go to the financial side of it. Yeah, yeah. You're retired. Yes, retired. Is there anyone else in your home that there's any income produced?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: No, no, my wife's retired as well.
[Dan Stoneking]: And it's not an income producing property, right? It's just a single no, no, it's single family.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I don't know the way that's that's put down. I'm not sure. You know, you have to be what's the overall bill on? It's like 13. It's almost just shy.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: It was just shy of $16,000. And I did get billed interest on my latest bill.
[Dan Stoneking]: The source size approximately $9,000 and change?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Well, what if we say 10% of that, then we should make it to $954? I don't know. Rather than doubling and this and that with what's on the things. Because I think it's a slippery slope over here. If somebody reviews this as they do, they say, what are you doing? You can't go against your bylaws. But I think something to that effect, it's not doubling it, but just using a percentage that could be workable. I don't know. What do you think, committee commissioners?
[Dan Stoneking]: We don't get many this large.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No, no.
[Dan Stoneking]: And no, no, it's not. I'm just saying we don't get many this large. So this is, it's a little bit of a dilemma here. And the chairperson chairman is right about setting precedent, but I do have flexibility. We do have flexibility and I'm listening to your income. Um, and that's kind of concerning to me that you're both retired. I'm retired as well. And it's not as easy as it is to meet bills when you're retired. Um, I mean, It didn't go through the sewer. We know that to be a fact, right? Sat in the basement. Yeah. I mean, you could look at it different ways. You guys have the power. You did set a precedent with the 500 sewer act of nature. But I mean, you do allow irrigation meters to run without sewer charges for as much as possible, right? That's a fact. I mean, you could treat it like a irrigation Well, I'd rather stick with the income more so than as a reason to reduce this bill, okay? That's my thinking as a commissioner. So I would like to propose to the two of you that we pick up 50% of the sewer side. Well, only if we get to see what the,
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: the financial situation.
[Dan Stoneking]: If you can provide Ron with some information about the fact that you're both retired and it's a fixed income, not that we need to know your personal investments, but I think we could probably work with you on that. Because it's there as an option to us when there's a financial, not hardship, but there's a reason why this is very difficult to pay. Would that be something you would entertain with Ron to fill out that form?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's still, you know. I left the last meeting getting a very strong impression that you were going to take care of at least the sewer part. I'm still looking at it. I don't think we ever said we were going to take care of it 100%.
[Dan Stoneking]: I said we'd look at it.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I didn't understand what was at play at the last meeting.
[Dan Stoneking]: Look, all I'm asking you to do is just somehow with this paperwork just reflect that you're both retired. That's all.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's something, but yet we still have to vote on going to second me to thing is not visible that because it's not I'm not saying that you talk about a precedent that would open up a can of worms for just about everybody as you know, a leap of any kind.
[Dan Stoneking]: So we'd be looking about a $4,500 discount credit run. Yeah, 45 4600 something like that. half of the 9,000. Yeah. I mean, what is, what is exactly the nine? What is the exact bill?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: It's 95 42 76. So 4,477. What is it? How much? $1,771 and 38 cents.
[Adam Hurtubise]: And I was charged an interest on the last bill and I was told that was going to be held until we had this meeting.
[Unidentified]: We can waive that.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We can take care of that. We can waive that. Once we establish what we established, you know, we go in that direction, Mr. O'Brien, don't worry about that. Let's face it, everybody understands this, but I must say again, have you since learned a lesson to install a shutoff after you boil it?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, I've never flipped over my bill and I see I can follow my usage online. And the day after I saw this, realized it had a leak, I have that. My recommendation to you is that should be bigger than the City of Medford font on your bill at the very top. And everyone I've told this story to has said they have the smallest toilet leak and the town is proactively calling them and telling them we think there's a problem. And I've heard that from dozens of people that I've told this story to over the past two months. You mean the city should notify that you have a leak? All I know is a lot of towns are very proactive when it comes to water use.
[Dan Stoneking]: The meter that you have calls in twice a day. The data is not enough to detect leaks all the time. Our new, our new, no, sir, sir. Yes. I'll give you information. The other people who are getting alerted all the time, they have hourly readings. They're on a newer meter with a newer reading device that gives 24 hours of readings. When they have that much data, the algorithms can pick up leaks like nothing. And they're getting automatic responses. It's not the fleet calling, it's the system calling.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: So I used 88,000 gallons in two months, and that algorithm couldn't pick up that usage after a week. I'm just saying, what's done is done here. You guys should be much more proactive. We shouldn't be having this conversation. I admit, I've learned my lesson, I need to be more prepared. But I've heard from a lot of people that their towns are calling them after their toilets run for two days. It's like something's wrong here. 88,000 gallons in six weeks, and you didn't pick up on that.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Anyway, Mr. O'Brien, here again, what I'm hearing is that none of this is your fault. None of this has anything to do because it's an intelligent person that I know you are. All these years, you never thought of putting a shut off. I'll say, I'm going to go away for three months, whatever it is, I'm going to shut off my water other than the boiler, which everybody else does. Everybody I know does that. including myself, but you never did that because you never talked to anybody that did that the same way you would talk to people to tell you that the cities and towns are notified. So it's a very convenient way to go down, which is fine. I get it. I get it. You're upset. And we're trying to do the best by you. We're trying to go way beyond $500 here. But what is not necessary is the implication that it's the city's fault somehow by not doing something. That's your house and it's your responsibility. What happens in that house? What if it was a gas leak? Then your house blown up.
[Dan Stoneking]: It's because of your older meter, if I'm hearing you right, is why this can't be... That's beside the point.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It's okay. Look, we're going to try to resolve it. I guess we all have something to do with it, I suppose. You have a point. You're right. Maybe the city should have a more active way of... Does it have a new meter now?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Um, we haven't gone there. No, not yet.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Not yet. Should we put a new meter in?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Is it due? We're putting new meters in. I understand.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: And then you have, but you said you have that, that thing now that will, that informs you if you have.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah. When I set it in, I added a 25, 25 gallons and it was letting me know every day. It's like, you know, I've never turned over my water bill.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah. Something good. Hopefully we'll come out of all this. You know, the fact that you've installed the shutoff now beyond the meter, that's a good thing. the fact that you have the app that says, oh, hey, listen, your toilet's running. So you can go to Florida, wherever you go in the winter, and relax a little bit more, you know, and not have to worry about another act of God.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Should I set him up for the next meeting?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, well, we'll meet again in July, and by then, hopefully, we'll have all this information that, you know, that, you know, so just to
[Dan Stoneking]: reiterate what I was requesting. If you could just provide Ron with the backup as best you can that you're both retired. Sure. That would be wonderful.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: I'm not okay. I appreciate it. No, I know what what you can do. I will appreciate it. I need all the help I can get.
[Dan Stoneking]: Can I count on you to call a plumber and All he has to do is just cut the pipe and put a little connection with a shutoff. And that way, when you do go away for months at a time... He said he did. Oh, he did it already. Oh. Didn't you say that you already have a shutoff now? After the boiler? That's what he's saying.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I have... I would have to... No, no, no. I have a number for him. You can check it out. I don't know if I have a shutoff after, you know, where the meter is. No, that's the thing. I'm talking about after the boiler.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, you want the water to constantly come into your boiler to keep you warm during the winter, but after the boiler... I thought you said you did. If you would consider putting one in, I would love to hear that from you, because that just shows me that you're making an effort to hopefully not... Oh, I misunderstood. You thought he had it?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's what I understood, that he said, yeah, I did that.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: No, I had the plumber come in and repair all the damage. Right, um, you know that that occurred to cause a leak. But, um, no, I am aware of the time I don't know where did it burst. Roughly, where did it burst to there on the north side of the house. Um, there was an outside tab. And, you know, that tab was left open and the inside tab was shut so that, but it was behind that tab. And it was, it was. And luckily it was in the basement, so that you know the pipe that burst was, you know, the water just flowed into the basement. But it was actually behind that. None of your pipes are insulated, I would assume.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Is that it?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. Well, like you said, it's like, you know, I should have done more.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I know, 2020, I get you. So insulate the pipes, get a shut off after the boiler, all of which you should be done. A lot of what we're trying to do for you here. OK. Because I think that will play, you know, if you're going to assure us that you're going to do that. Yeah, I know that you might have to prevent this from happening again.
[Dan Stoneking]: Oh, yeah. Oh, no. get that paperwork to Ron, we'll take a vote.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: And I'll, well, first of all, we need to vote on this, that we need to go forward in this direction. So are you making a motion that we go in this direction?
[Dan Stoneking]: I'd like to make a motion that Mr. O'Brien provide the paperwork to Ron that both parties that live in the dwelling are retired for hardship, for a hardship sort of, not completely. And that we were prepared to pay 50% of the source side of your bill.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Great, I appreciate any help. I second it.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Well, I second it, obviously, so. All right.
[Emily Lazzaro]: I'm going to abstain only because I wasn't here for the first discussion with this customer.
[Adam Hurtubise]: We only need two.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No, but you understand what's at play. Okay, well, that's it. So if you wanna vote, you can vote as long as you understand what we're doing. Okay, all right, well, that's it then.
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much. Thank you, I appreciate your time. So I'm letting the bill ride and we're gonna meet again in July once I get you that documentation. That'd be great. And someone's gonna send me the form you need.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I don't know if there is a form.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I don't know what form it is. I think you have to pick it up someplace upstairs. Where do you get that? Where is it? In the clerkshop?
[MCM00001535_SPEAKER_03]: In the clerkshop? Oh, is it the hardship form?
[Adam Hurtubise]: It is. We're going to have you fill it out.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I'll email it to you.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I'll email it to you. Oh, that one.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Thank you. Thank you. Hardship, the hardship.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah, I know.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah. OK. Thank you again. Thank you again. All right. Thank you. You're welcome.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, you need something in writing, that's all.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so what's... That's the first largest one I've seen since I've been... So irrigation meter... 320 Middlesex Act.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I apologize for the delay. Oh, that's quite all right. Hello.
[Dan Stoneking]: I'm going to stay a little bit longer and I'm going to sacrifice putting together 20,000 meals as I'm president of association doing this. Cause I just want to vote on your, uh, on your particular, um, request.
[SPEAKER_08]: Um, so my understanding is, um, there is a meeting that, uh, single family homes from one to three get the option where they don't get surcharges. Um, so I'm here as Ron Lopez's representation. uh, for the development of Wellington Woods, uh, kind of Indian Association there, Medford. Um, there'll be 200 units on one plot of land. It is a not-for-profit, um, condo, so it's not rental apartments. They're not there to generate income. They're, they're homes. And we just want to be able to irrigate the, uh, landscape around the building in part time, um, just the same as other single-family homes and up to three families. That is a lot of... Ron, correct.
[Dan Stoneking]: me if I'm wrong, but have we have any irrigation systems with any condo complexes in the city above three units? Not that I know of. We do? Yes. Was it prior to our Okay, so it was grandfathered in, but since we've changed all the language, has anyone been awarded? There's a problem, is that we changed something a while ago. Well, the bylaws changed, not we changed, but the bylaws changed.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: council, et cetera, et cetera. So right now that whatever you, not what you said is that that's the bylaw. There's nothing beyond the three family.
[SPEAKER_08]: And it's just bylaws, not a subsection of rules. No, it was not regulations. So it's in the rules and regulations. I understand to be amended usually by a court.
[Adam Hurtubise]: very easily. This board adopted them about three years ago.
[SPEAKER_08]: Is there a possibility for consideration that maybe this ruling was geared towards enterprises that generate profits, apartment complex? No, I don't think so. Taxpayers?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't know. It's simply straightforward. One to three family. That's the cut off. Yeah.
[Dan Stoneking]: Okay, the thinking is you're gonna charge whatever water charges onto the people that in 200 units and it doesn't sound like a doesn't sound like a lot of water that you're going to be using.
[SPEAKER_08]: It's just well they factor out they're going to save about $12,000 a year out of their annual budget.
[Dan Stoneking]: Divided into the 200 units.
[SPEAKER_08]: Correct.
[Dan Stoneking]: What are we talking?
[SPEAKER_08]: We're talking about each individual unit owner who's not being afforded the same.
[Dan Stoneking]: About 40 bucks a month. About 40 a month.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right, which may be 40 a month.
[Dan Stoneking]: That seems like an awful high water bill, but you describing what you told me square footage of what you're watering $12,000 a year would be the estimated savings on the shore side.
[SPEAKER_08]: In other words, yeah, that's not that's on there.
[Dan Stoneking]: That's an awful lot.
[SPEAKER_08]: I can't tell you our ability.
[Adam Hurtubise]: How many units? 200.
[Dan Stoneking]: Do you know where the property is? No, but he described what area that he would be behind. Like you described to me what would be watered. It doesn't sound like you're not going to water it every day, right? It's $60 for you.
[SPEAKER_08]: No, I don't. I don't.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Every day at most, it's $60 per unit for the year, right? Is that a problem? That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm I'm for the $5 a month. They feel that it is a charge that is unjust. I mean, they're being charged a sewer rate on something that's being on grass or other homeowners.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Here's the problem with that line of thinking. No, no, here's the problem. How do you think all of the other homes that don't have a second meter feel that whoever had, they have to subsidize all of them that have a second meter? that are paying for their, they're paying more for the sewer, because for whatever money you don't pay in that complex, which is $12,000, the rest of the people in Medford don't have a second meal or anything else after subsidizing. So they're upset about that. And this is why, you know, one family, two families, up to three families, the city decided that it was enough, you know, that you don't want to go beyond that. Because when you're talking about two, 300 units, something, and you're talking about $60 for the year, which is $5 a month, I mean, you know.
[SPEAKER_08]: This would be subsidizing because that water is not actually going to the sewers.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't have to. And by the way, because most people don't realize this, the MWRA doesn't give a hoot What amount of water goes into that sewer? They charge for the whole amount. In relationship to every gallon of water, they charge twice as much for the sewer side. So right now it's costing us three, three and a half, not quite three and a half cents. you know, per gallon, but includes a little over a penny for the water and over two cents for the suicide. That they charge no matter what you do with that water, whether you ever throw it down the road or not. So that's, the city has to pay for that money.
[Dan Stoneking]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: I see, I see exactly what you're saying. You know what I mean? Whether you send it down the street or not. So in between, between all of this, the city decided, said, look, okay, you know, we want to make the city look beautiful and everything else for single homes and so on, up to three family. But when it comes to life complexes, that's a whole different story, you know what I mean? You can make a look on your own for five bucks and five dollars a month. I mean, it's nickels and dimes in terms of what your HOA is or that they'll have to pay. I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, I'm not saying, Ronnie, like I said, former student of mine, I love him dearly. His sister died, you know.
[Dan Stoneking]: We had someone come here that wanted to try to recoup the water that doesn't go into the sewer system for the air conditioning units. Oh yeah, I get that. My lord. I mean, you're talking thousands of dollars. That's commercial stuff anyway.
[SPEAKER_08]: Now, getting on the beautification, because they did beautify and make that area, which my understanding was an old GE plant, and had to sit on it for a while. The thinking of the city. Just get rid of our landscaping and pave everything and make it just another apartment looking complex.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Which you wouldn't do anyway. You wouldn't do that. Otherwise, nobody would buy that unit. But the thing is, what the city did, what the city did was to say, look, we want to have single homes and streets that look nice and so on. The commercial side is going to do what it has to do in order to be able to sell what they want to sell. Although all rent. So which means nice lawns and so on and so forth. But unfortunately, that's what we have right now.
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, see, I mean, this is also, I mean, they still go dark, either dark. Detail does not mean commercial industry.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: We understand that. We understand that. We understand that. But it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_08]: Resale still plays a factor.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't, you know.
[Emily Lazzaro]: I was just reading the rules and regulations and just as clarification for me, I think I'm reading the appropriate thing. It's from, this provides November 11th, 2021. Does that sound right? Okay. It says the city allows irrigation meters on in-ground irrigation systems for residential accounts only. And is anything over four units considered commercial? Over three.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: No, well not commercial, just it's more than four units, that's it, it can be commercial. It doesn't matter what it is.
[Emily Lazzaro]: It doesn't specify the number of units in the regulation, so I just want to make sure I understand. From a billing perspective, is anything four units or above considered commercial?
[Adam Hurtubise]: I'm not sure. Well, there is residentials, like in this building that is classified as residential. Okay. But it's more than three. Are they condos? I'm not sure if that's the most recent version, but the issue was a while ago when the commission put this in place, it was residential.
[SPEAKER_10]: Then they made a ruling that it was one, two and three families. Right.
[Emily Lazzaro]: So maybe that's just not reflected in these rules. Okay.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: You know, the thing is that Tim McGiven and so on, we, we updated all this stuff and I'm, I don't know why that, that's one thing you need to point out to Timmy that along with all the things that we put together, that was one of the things that was supposed to be updated in the thing that didn't get updated. He must've forgot about it. So could you send him a note on this issue? to make sure that what was voted on is reflected in the bylaws as Commissioner Muneo.
[Adam Hurtubise]: What section was that?
[Dan Stoneking]: What we need to do is make sure that it gets back. At the next meeting, we take the section. We take the section and reword it the way we word it. You guys sign off on it, and then it's put in.
[Adam Hurtubise]: 4, 5, Y-5.
[SPEAKER_08]: Can we add verbiage in there, except for what's coming to you first? OK. Just a second. I can't hear what you're saying. I'm just making it was a joke.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, I was supposed to have that because we, you know, these have been voted on, but some of these things didn't make it back into the done document.
[Dan Stoneking]: I don't know. Three units. I'm glad you pointed that out. Family. 30,000 square feet of lawn. Never put in for me to 30,000 square feet of lawn. Okay.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: So for me, I, I, well, and I was only a three family. I could have done it. Motion is to deny that it all in favor. I'm so sorry. Give Ronnie my best and my condolences. They knew a long time. No, no, I know, I know, I know. Hey, listen, if the rules ever change, you know, believe me, we've had, we've had, um, uh, the, the, the, uh, you know, car washers and so on and so forth and so on and so forth. And they, they recycle even they won't. You can't, you know, it is what it is. Okay. Okay. We need to go to, to the, um, What do you call it? Yeah. The rates and so on and so forth. Is Dave Fox on? Oh, no. Dave.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Left. Dan is there.
[Dan Stoneking]: No, Dave's there. No, Dave's there.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Dave Fox.
[Dan Stoneking]: He can hear you.
[Daniel Nuzzo-Mueller]: Hey, commissioners.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: How are you, Dave? Hi, Dave. How are you?
[Daniel Nuzzo-Mueller]: I'm well, thank you. How are you all?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, thank you. I know, I know. Thank you for providing us with the proposed new rates with 10% across the board with the- You have that right? Yes, I do. I think we all do know. You do have it? Yeah.
[Emily Lazzaro]: I saw the email.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Oh, okay. All right. And so thank you for that. In the meantime, we got a notice, an email from the mayor's office asking that the commission now, support her motion, I guess, whatever it is that she sent into the council for consideration at the July meeting or the June meeting, whenever it's coming along, that they consider moving $500,000 over to, I think you got the same email, Dave, didn't you?
[Daniel Nuzzo-Mueller]: I did, I ran that analysis with 500,000, although I'll caveat this, which I do every year, which I disagree with subsidizing the budget with retained earning because that can't happen in perpetuity. And at some point you need to have your revenues coming in where to meet the revenue requirements in total, just it's unsustainable. but I did run that analysis and that rate increase would be able to decrease from 10% to 8%. We don't have the sheet on a $500,000 subsidy. So, so, so 500,000, we'll bring it to 8% across the board. That's correct.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: 10% without the $500,000 subsidy with the $500,000 subsidy is an 8% increase. Peter, click the green.
[Emily Lazzaro]: The green button. What is it?
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Oh, Dan, yeah. All right, so thank you for that again. And the way it's worded, you know, this amount is being requested to stabilize the fiscal 24 Water and Sewer Enterprise Fund budget, retain earnings, our reserves of the Water and Sewer Fund. Reserves can be used for any lawful purpose, but serve primarily to provide financial security in case of unforeseen events or to reduce the need for additional revenue from increased water and sewer rates. Okay, so this is, but... The you know, I normally normally we have Recommended obviously every year almost every year, but especially when when a large Increment was was about to happen that the um that the mayor recommend to the council that approved five six seven one year there I think they approved a million dollars later on 500 But this year we were being asked for this year from Dan Stone King and DPW and so on, not to recommend that because that money is badly needed for infrastructure, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we were poised not to make that recommendation this year to try to respect what we're being told by the Water and Sewer Division and the kind of money that they need for the problems that exist in the city. And apparently that's a ton of problems that exist in the infrastructure. So now we don't, but the mayor herself is recommending this to the council, whether we recommend it or not. And the council more than likely is going to approve that transfer of the $500,000 into the budget. So, you know, I'm not quite sure what our role is here other than I don't go along with the mayor, I guess, you know, I'm not going to go against the mayor's recommendation because as a committee, we can't sign off on a rate because we're not sure that they are going to reckon they are going to approve it.
[Dan Stoneking]: And we don't know. Correct. Correct.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Depending, depending on what the council, if it's approved, then we, of course, you know, Ronnie, what's your deadline on rates going up?
[Dan Stoneking]: It doesn't affect until the August bill, August. No, that's fine. They know what they're doing. If I can excuse myself because I think this is the last issue and we're not going to sign off on rates, I got to go.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: All right. No, we actually can't until we know whether it's transferred or not. Is there any other business? But the motion would be to what? What is the motion here now? There has to be a motion to what? To support the mayor's recommendation at this point?
[Dan Stoneking]: No, I make a motion to postpone the increase in the water rates until the mayor and the city council have Establish whether they're going to approve the 500 000 or not. Oh, no. Okay, that's all right. Yep. All those in favor.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Aye. Aye. Okay. Okay. All right. Talk to you soon. Anything else? No, I have one more. Talk to you soon. What is it? Oh, uh, hold on. Dave, are we good with Dave now at this point? I think so. Dave? Dave? I'm here, Dom. Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm sorry, buddy. So, you know, this this is this is where we are, Dave. So, you know what I mean? It's not like Unfortunately, I know that's a recommendation you always make here at the end. Don't touch that, but if the mayor... I know, I sound like a broken record. It's the city's money, and if the mayor's making a recommendation in this, I think...
[Dan Stoneking]: We're not going to stand. Well, I hope the engineer and the head of the water department are talking to the mayor. Yes, yes, yes.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: My understanding is that from Tim is that, and Dan, they're asking the city to have, to come up with a viable 10 year plan, not just one, two, three years that we have to keep on asking for three, five, five cents a hundred thousand for the rates. That addresses the infrastructure and so on and so forth. And I think hopefully that's going to happen. The mayor's thing was kind of the way his word is that the city has used a considerable amount of ARPA funds to support the needs of the Water and Sewer Division and will continue to do that wherever possible, which makes the use of retained earnings relatively small in comparison. So anyway.
[Dan Stoneking]: And in support of, Dave, just so you know, in support of this vast amount of money that's needed going forward to preserve our potted water and our water system, unfortunately, he's not with us, but ex-commissioner Orlando had prepared a letter, and I wanna make sure that everyone still, this is the letter that, we were going to send to the mayor in support of the Water and Sewer Department. Is that still on the table? To support the Water and Sewer Department? To support the fact that money needs to be put aside. Do you remember that letter? Yeah, but we never did anything because Rick's not with us anymore. So can we still entertain this? Can you email me a copy of that letter? Didn't we all get it? No. Can you make a quick copy for Emily?
[Adam Hurtubise]: It was a proposal that Rick had made, Commissioner Leno, to support the Water and Sewer Department in their need of infrastructure money or a plan for 10 years.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Yes, of course we support that. So anyway, but we'll vote again.
[Dan Stoneking]: I'll make copies of this.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: And bring it to the next meeting.
[Dan Stoneking]: This is the elderly exemptions that needs to be signed every year.
[Adam Hurtubise]: people who qualify for 41C, real estate elderly exemption for people with low income, we give them 50 on water and 50 on soil. That's going to be possible for the next meeting also. Ronnie and I are still working on how to get some veterans some money.
[Dan Stoneking]: Dan had a question for Dave. Dave, you still there? Hello, Dave. I'm here, Ronnie. Dan said, can you ask Dave what next three years rates would look like, please? Well, I mean, that's kind of an open ended. Dan Dan doesn't have any audio right now. Dan Stone King, the superintendent. Oh, he asked what the next three rates would look like.
[Daniel Nuzzo-Mueller]: If Dan can hear me or if not, you can type this in the chat. We could provide a high level estimate of that. I would have to have a conversation with him to understand, you know, kind of level of increases in revenue requirements, capitalization, capital plans, how things are going to change over the next three years. But we could give a high level forecast of that pretty easily. Dan, if you can hear me, I'll give you a call tomorrow. We can discuss that.
[Adam Hurtubise]: What is this one now?
[Dan Stoneking]: Thank you. He said understood. Thank you. All right. No problem. Thank you, Dave. Thanks, Dave.
[Daniel Nuzzo-Mueller]: My pleasure. Let me know when the July meeting is. I already have both those scenarios ran. If there's anything else that comes up in between, I can run them and I'll have whatever you need at that signature sheet in front of you.
[Dan Stoneking]: Would you make a note that I'm on vacation out of state the last two weeks in July? If you hold a meeting, I can't be there if it's the last two weeks in July. I'm out of state again.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: As long as we have two votes, we can. No, no, you know what I'm just making, you know, depending, depending on one. July, July 17th. Yeah. So.
[Dan Stoneking]: If you want him, Emily here, you have it the last week. You're not going to be, you're not going to be here. I think I leave the July 19th, which is a Saturday to Saturday. The last one of the dates. I'm trying to give you the dates. The last two full calendar days in July, Saturday to Saturday. Okay. From the 22nd to the 29th. No, no. Thank you. Thank you.
[Emily Lazzaro]: 15th to the 29th. I'm not here.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Oh, and Emily's away the 17th, the week of the 12th is the only other time that we can have a meeting. Right. And we should have all of that one because I've got already three different meetings for that day. So it's going to be a problem. It doesn't have to be for this particular one. We may make it on a Tuesday.
[Adam Hurtubise]: I don't know. Let's see. Let's work on it.
[I5lIrWN8Vh8_SPEAKER_15]: Let's find out what happens with this.
[Adam Hurtubise]: OK.
[Dan Stoneking]: All right, I got one last one that just came. What is this? I'm trying to give you as much time as I can. So 45 Coolidge, their usage was very erratic for a long time. Well, the reading device was failing to call in. If you look at the second sheet, there's a graph and you can see at the beginning there was consistency and then like there was missing. I thought that the people were stealing water by taking their meter out and turning it around, turning it back and around. And then at the end, they were using really high water before the reading device died. I knocked on the lady's door. She refused me to enter. She told me I couldn't see the meter. And I said, OK. It was like right when COVID, I think she was a little scared. I started estimating them very high because I wanted to gain access. And I was going by the usage that was being used at the present time. When we got in there, I don't know if it was that. I don't know. It went on for a couple of years. She finally reached back out to me. I build it over $10,000 just based on the average. I base everything on an average. I came up with an average. I've never seen this kind of graph. I mean, this is kind of wild, but. That's not wild at all. Well, what is it? Well, no, I mean, look at the, don't forget the consumption on the side. See the numbers on the side? They're very low numbers. Very low numbers. compared to the one at the top. Some of them have 800 cubic feet in a day. And actually the highest one here is 35. What do you think is causing these things? I don't know. I don't know. But what I did do was I let them knew me to run for a long time. Okay. If you look at the history back here, there's weeks where no water was being used. I don't know what was going on. I have no, I can't see in their logs. I don't know.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Could this be a problem? Could this be a meter?
[Dan Stoneking]: Could it be? Maybe, I don't, maybe, maybe it was. Did you swap it out? We did. And that's the new usage right here. Okay. Very low. Go ahead. Okay. But what I did was I took the new usage average, which was 9.45. And then I took the last actual reading that we had on the old meter and plugged it in to the out read with the number of days in between. And it came to eight cubic feet for 8.1.
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