[Christopher Bader]: Um, Sharon has a, uh, so, um, so just to remind everybody, um, um, Brad had submitted an application for, uh, two 53 side street to put a little porch on there. Um, but, uh, he withdrew the application yesterday. Uh, he's still going to build a porch, I think, but he wants more time. I think he wants more time. Well, For one thing, he's on the road. So maybe Peter couldn't make it. I'm not sure what's going on. Anyway, he's not going to be here tonight. But we do want to discuss South Street. And we can't vote on anything because we don't have a quorum. But we can certainly talk. And Sharon has a little presentation she would like to share with us. So why don't we share? Why don't you get started? Can you let Dennis, can you let Sharon share her screen?
[Unidentified]: Dennis, are you there?
[Denis MacDougall]: Sorry, everything froze for me for a while. Sorry, I didn't hear anything up until... Yeah, can you let Sharon share her screen? Oh, sure, absolutely.
[Unidentified]: Oh, so I can do it now?
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah, just click share screen.
[Unidentified]: Yep, you're all set. Should be at the bottom. There you go. Okay, wait a second. What is this at the top? There we go. Okay. All right.
[Libby Brown]: So, this is sort of a quick overview of the South Street area and where we might create a historic district. I have a lot of thoughts on it. I've done a lot of research in this area. At one point, Ryan and I were going to write something and he got too busy and that didn't happen. But anyway, I did a lot of the research. So anyway, this is the area we're talking about. Everybody's probably familiar with it. Just Medford Square is over here. And this area was called Medford Square South. I believe in the South Medford surveys that the historical commission had done, I think it was Claire Dempsey, may have been an additional one, a researcher that did it. So Medford Square South. Obviously, here's the river, here's Main Street, the Craddock Bridge, the footbridge. South Street, over here is grandfather's house. Over here was, so it's also known as the Paul Curtis House for the shipbuilder that built the big front part of it. And that's, he had his shipyard over here. Then over here on Toro Air is the Gates House. You can see it as a nice large lot. And we had talked about this years ago and hopefully had been trying to make a single house historic district for it and that didn't happen. But there's still a report out there and it just needs some updating, I understand.
[Unidentified]: All right. Okay.
[Christopher Bader]: Can I just interject here? Yes. Okay. So. Claire has Dempsey has, has done an extensive study of this area. And she has created. I'll get to that. Oh, you will. Okay.
[Libby Brown]: So let's go on. So this is a short history section. Can you see the whole slide?
[Unidentified]: Yes.
[Libby Brown]: OK. So this is a drawing of the South Street area, the South Medford area. It's a reconstruction from 1685. This whole part was part of Charlestown. It was annexed to Medford in 1754. Here you can see the current boundary of Medford. This part's Somerville. And this was called the stinted pastures, and that has to do with the parcels that were parceled out to various individuals. It was divided by three rangeways, so this is the first one, this is the second one, this is the third one. And then It was 80 rods between the rangeways and then the pastures were 40 yards. They were divided. It was divided in half. So this was used as a path to get to them.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[Libby Brown]: OK, so this is taken from the 1855 Walling map. It's the same area. I just drew in the range lines. So this is about this first range way is about Walnut Street. I don't know that I have it quite right. I was lining it up with the bottom here. The second range way is now Winthrop. The third range way is more or less North Street. And then these orange lines are the division into the 40 yards, 40 rods, which is about 220 yards. And this division here is basically a Turo. And you can see the Gates House here. So we know it's on Turo. Okay.
[Christopher Bader]: What is a rangeway?
[Libby Brown]: It's just a path between the pastures. Oh, OK. So you can get down to your pasture.
[Christopher Bader]: OK, so it's like a dirt road?
[Libby Brown]: I guess, like, yeah, a path, probably.
[Unidentified]: And dirt. Yeah, not dirt. Yeah. OK.
[Libby Brown]: Oh, I just want to point out that this is Summer Street down here, part of it, and it's called Middlesex Street. And that's because this was the canal ran through here and they filled it in and this became Middlesex Street. And it's basically, well, it's half of South Street or two thirds of South Street. OK. OK, so this is. A close up of. the area between South Street and what is now Summer Street. And I've marked these yellow stars indicate pre-1855 houses that are still extant. Because obviously a lot of them, all of these, the Medford Hotel, all these various other houses that are are not with us anymore. So there's about 13 of these in the area. Well, there's 13 stars on here. OK. I'm going to try to be very quick about this. OK, so in 1974, there was a area form produced for the South Street area. And it concentrated on this intersection of South Street and Walnut Street. And I chose this quote from it that said, the section of South Street, and this drawing is the only remaining section whose pre-1855 form is still clear and intact. Well, it's still more or less true, but there's been some changes since then. So I'm just gonna show you briefly some of the resources in the area, the houses, and I'll try to go through these slides very quickly. You know, just stop me if you have a question. Okay, so first I'm gonna concentrate on these Six have well five houses number 42 is not pre 1855 it's like 1875 1880 something like that. Okay. So, so. These are two of the three best preserved houses on the street. It's 48 South Street, Deutsch Floor House. The oldest part, which you can't see, it's behind this protrusion here, was built in 1865 by 1805, pardon me. by William Buckner, who I believe was a carpenter. And then the front part was built around 1834, 35 for George Fuller, who was a very prosperous ship builder. And his shipyard was across South Street over by the river. I'll point it out in another slide. And as you can see, he built a quite grand house. And the owner's quite proud of it. She restored a lot of it. And you can see she has a historic marker on it from the Historical Society. And right next door to it is 54 South Street, the George Goodwin House, which was constructed about circa 1835. And what you can't see here, what you can't see here This section here is fairly new. There had been a much older section that they took down and rebuilt in the same footprint. So that's unfortunate, but this front part is from about 1835. And what you can't see behind the house, you can see it looking down the driveway, you can see it from my backyard is, and the house behind, is a carriage house, which was described as well-preserved. And it appears on the 1889 Medford map in the same location, same general footprint. That's the 1889 map. So it was there as early as 1889. Now, both of these houses, this is sort of a different view of the second house, meet the criteria for eligibility for the National Historic Register. They were never, a nomination was never put in, but it could be. The researchers that wrote the Form Bs felt that they met the eligibility criteria for individual houses. Okay, so then the other houses on that 1974 area form, one of the oldest, if not the oldest house on South Street. You'll notice there's two entrances here. So the official address is 1 Walnut, but this entrance is 36 South Street. It's on the corner of Walnut and South. It was built in 1806 and then additions back here and over on the side where you can't see them were added in the 1840s, and William Bradbury, he may have built the house himself he was. He was a carpenter, I believe, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, his daughter Elizabeth ran a school here for young women, ran the school for about 24 years. And she lived on in the house after her parents passed. And this house is also unsurprisingly eligible for the National Historic Register. Now, across the street on South Street, not directly across, but more or less, is the Richards and Hayes House. It was built 1843, 1855, but it may be older, as early as 1835. And you can see it's had a lot of alterations. You can basically see the form of the house. Anyway, and then 31 South Street, the Lutheran Elizabeth Turner house that was constructed in 1852. to 1855. And although it's been stripped of a lot of its detail, you cannot it's still the researchers in the Form B said it's still a legible component of South Street's first phase of development. Okay, then This one's a sad story, 30 South Street the Joseph Manning house. This was also constructed in 1835. It's obviously been greatly altered in 1974 in the area form. written for this area, it still had a porch on a side entrance over on this side where you can't see it, and the porch had dirt columns. It was very similar to 48 and 54 South Street. think I have a picture of it somewhere, but I couldn't locate it. So Joseph Manning was well known in the area. He was in the lumber business and he was a land speculator. He and Francis E. Foster were in the the lumber business together, and they had the F.E. Floster Lumber Mill, which was on Riverside Ave. So when Joseph Manning moved to Forest Street and built his house there, he sold this house at 30 South Street to F.E. Floster, and he raised his kids here. And then, of course, everybody knows this house, 114 South Street, the Paul Curtis House, also known as Grandfather's House. As you know, Paul Curtis was a famous shipbuilder, and I already pointed out where his shipyard was on the other side of Winthrop, across the river near Winthrop Street. This is the only house in the area that is on the National Historic Register as it should be, but as we all know, it doesn't carry any protective value. So it should become, if not part of a larger historic district, a single house historic district just to protect it. Okay, and this is 21 Turo Ave. The gates house constructed circa 1840. And as I mentioned before, there was already a report completed. So it should be easy. It should be easy to update that and present it to the city council. Anyway, let me go on. There's three more houses that are pre-1855. This is the house, 15 Walnut Street. As you can see, it's constructed, it was pre-1855, possibly as early as the first decade of the 19th century. I don't know how they arrived at that, but this house was originally on Walnut Street, it had street frontage there. And it was moved to the back of a large lot where it stands now, and number 15 Walnut, although the entrance to get to it is called Walnut Terrace. And at that time, F.E. Foster owned this land. He owned a lot of land in the area. And they moved it and his son built a house on Walnut Street, his older son.
[Unidentified]: And then this one is on Maple Street. built around 1845.
[Libby Brown]: You can see it has some alterations, but it's a well-preserved. These quotes are all from the Form Bs. Well-preserved representative example of a Greek revival end house. St. Croix Redmond was a very successful mariner and ship captain, and also involved in the ship building industry in Medford. This house, it's very sad. It's been extremely altered. It's on the corner of South Street and Manning called the 66 South Riley Hemphill House. This is also pre-1855. In the early part of the 20th century, it was the Medford home for the aged, or do you say aged? Anyway, this land had been owned by Joseph Manning and then I believe he built this house and then sold it to Riley. I think his name was John Riley. And then later the Hemphills bought all this land. And Manning Street, of course, was named after Joseph Manning, because he owned a lot of the lands that these houses are on. And then this house, two doors down from the grandfather's house, Chatham's Jotham Stetson House, constructed 1822, circa 1822. It's very altered, but the researchers point out that it contains some original components, like the columns on the porch. You can barely see them, side lights in the surround of the front door. There's a back porch here. Stenson was also a prominent shipbuilder and had a shipyard by the river at Winthrop Street as well. And then there's 911 Turrell Ave, the John Stenson house, yeah, and he was related in some way to Jotham Stenson. This house was built circa 1840. And then around 1914, this little building was constructed as a grocery store. And there's an attachment, which you can't see, between the two in the back. And Stenson was a shipwright. So we have a number of houses associated with the shipbuilding industry. George Fuller's house, Paul Curtis, Jotham Stenson, St. Croix Redmond, the ship captain, and John Stenson, the shipwright. And then also George Fuller's shipyard was across the river, across South Street on the river. Okay. Oh, and this is my house. And unfortunately, it's relatively young. Not unfortunately. It's constructed circa 18, no, it was constructed 1896. during 1896. And the researchers said, maybe this was Claire Dempsey as well, exceptionally well-preserved example of the Queen Anne style. It retains almost all of its original material. I love the little finial on the top, and the wraparound porch, et cetera. Anyway, the reason I put this up here, Joseph Manning Foster, he went by the name of Manning. He was the son of Francis E. Foster, and he worked for his dad's company as a lumber salesman. And the inside of the house, you can see he had access to beautiful wood. And you can see my doorway here in the back, the rounded edges and everything. Anyway, as I said, I am in the middle of writing a research report on it that can be used to create a single house historic district. And that is my goal, because I don't want to leave this to the future to destroy it anyway.
[Unidentified]: I think there's somebody waiting in the waiting room.
[Libby Brown]: So this is the area in that form that Claire Dempsey wrote, that Chris, you sent around to everybody, the Turner Manning Street area. It is a good example of the infill of this, how all these, lower middle-class families, housing was built on here, the development, you know, history of the development. This area includes three of the pre-1855 houses, also includes my house, 10 Manning Street, and then this house, this is interesting, 84 South Street, was the home of John Ciarati, who is the Italian-American poet, and I think it was like 2005, something like that, the Friends of the Library presented a literary plaque, which is on the house. So that's not, the house itself may not be architecturally significant, but it's a point of history associated with somebody famous from Medford.
[Christopher Bader]: He's one of the best known poets of his generation.
[Libby Brown]: Okay, I never heard of him before we gave him this plaque.
[Christopher Bader]: And he translated, his best known thing he's known for is translating the Divine Comedy, which was a Dante's Divine Comedy. And it was a very popular translation, it's used a lot in colleges and universities.
[Libby Brown]: I wasn't a humanities major, I studied biology, so. Um, yeah, so, you know, I think, excuse me, sorry, can I just jump in for a second?
[Denis MacDougall]: Any of the other co-hosts, if they want to try out a person in the waiting room in, I've been trying for a while and can't. Okay, just a minute. All you have to do is like click on the person's name. There we go. Maybe, or they left. I'm not sure, but I'll keep trying. If they come on again, if somebody sees the name there, try it, because I've been trying. Okay. I think it's probably Chris Donovan, I think. Yes.
[Unidentified]: Yeah. Well, if he gets there. Oh, there he is here now. All right, good. Grissy, you with us? Doesn't look like he has audio. Oh, he's connecting to it, yeah.
[Christopher Bader]: Anyway, go ahead, Sharon.
[Libby Brown]: OK, well, I'm going to back up when he gets on because he's big into the shipbuilding, and I just want to point out those resources.
[Christopher Bader]: Oh, OK.
[Libby Brown]: Anyway, so this house here, 7577, called the Ames Duplex, it built close to 1870. Right now it's slated for demolition. They ran out their demo delay and I guess they're free to demolish it anytime now. 69 South Street was a very cute little Sort of very modest. I guess, a mid-Victorian house. I'm not very good with describing styles, but they've renovated it and very little, there's, the house was sort of amoeba-sized. So it looks very nice, but it doesn't have a lot of historic value, in my opinion, at this point. You guys can disagree with me, though. And then 17 Manning is, right now, is being, They're just finishing renovating that. Anyway, they retained some of the house, like a third of the house, and all you have left is part of the foundation and the framing. and everything else is new. Anyway, so that's an example of what's going on in the neighborhood. We're losing things right and left.
[Unidentified]: Anyway, okay, so.
[Libby Brown]: So originally I had made, I know you remember this a couple of years ago, I'd drawn a large, section that sort of went all the way around here to be possible boundaries for a historic district. But as I was telling Chris Bader, after I'd been involved with the Forest Street debacle, let's say, I just don't think it's possible. I think we have to be fairly modest in our expectations. So my first thought is we go for the low-hanging fruit. So obviously 21 Turrell, the Gates house already has a research report. It just needs to be updated. 114 is grandfather's house, 114 South that should be protected. I've spoken with the owners and actually the owner's mother who also lives there. And she, they're very into the historic, value of their house, significance of the house and very into, so they'd be amenable to being in a historic district. 48 South Street, that's the George Fuller House. The owners of this house are also very into the history of their house. And Anne Marie takes great pride in, she renovated it and brought it back. restored it, that's the word, in the early 2000s and it's beautiful right now. So she'd be interested in being in a historic district and of course there's my house. So if owners are like into it, And that those are easy houses to get, you know, even if you make a model to single house historic districts they're easy houses and you get something done. And then you can connect more. I think if we're too ambitious, it's not going to happen. Okay, so then this is, so I'm gonna try to expand the section of the possibilities. This shows part of that 1974 area form. So you get 48 in there. You get one Walnut Street, the 1906 house. You get the 54 South Street, which is circa 1835. This house is just in the middle of them and it's 1880s or something like that. You'd get three of the pre-1855 houses here. Now, I know Ann Marie is really into it. These people I met once or twice and they were restoring the house and they've retained a lot of the original detail, but I don't know how they feel about that. And this piece 54 South Street is now owned by a developer. And he wants to put in this huge, building, which it will be three townhouses, which will be perpendicular to the South Street, and it'll be attached to the original house. So they say they don't want to touch the original house, but they're going to put this huge thing in the lot. And that goes to the idea of setting part of the historic feeling a character of a street is how is that house, how is the house, the setting of that house? And so that I think will be horror for that extra building in there, but we can still do that. Okay. So then this just shows adding 15 Walnut. This is the house that was moved from, it was moved from out here and back to the back of the lot, the original lot. And that's, I don't remember what I said, 18, it was pre-1855. Okay, so then you could add all of the houses that was in the South Street area formed from 1974. These three are not in great condition. There's now a duplex here, a modern-looking duplex. This adds the other pre-1855 houses associated with the shipbuilding. So you have 102, so 114 Paul Curtis House, the grandfather's house, 102, yeah, Jocelyn Stetson, the shipbuilder. Number 12 is the St. Croix Redmond House, and that's, he was the mariner and ship captain. And number nine, Turo Street Ave, is the John Stetson house and he was a shipwright. So then we also have number 48 that was George Fuller's house. And then 66 South Street, even though it's been very altered, it's Well, it has a history of being associated with Joseph Manning. It's pre-1855. It also has the association of being the home for, Medford home for the aged. And that seems like an interesting point for me. Okay, and then here I've added more houses. Right here is, the top of that section that Claire Dempsey identified as the Turo Manning area. Now, I already mentioned how this is gonna be demolished and this has been altered, but it could serve as a connecting, part of a connecting corridor from these houses to over here. This is 15 Manning. It was built around 1875. It's in wonderful shape. The owner takes great pride in it, and he'd probably be interested in being an historic district. What was I going to say? Anyway, that's low-hanging fruit. Over here, this is not quite on South Street, it's on Winthrop Street, but 204, Winthrop, it's... Okay, I'm looking at my notes.
[Unidentified]: Sorry about that. 22, okay.
[Libby Brown]: Okay, it, it has been renovated since the form B was written, but it's very nicely done. And it was built before 1875 and I just love this house and I thought, you know, if we could get it in some kind of district, it might be, it might be worth it. 84 was the literary plaque, John Ciardi House. And then these three houses over here, this is 17 Walnut, and that was the house that was built for F.E. Foster's son. And that was the whole reason why 15 was moved back. This is 58 Metcalf, it used to be 23 Walnut Street before this, Where's my arrow before this? There's a duplex here now. So yeah, I know.
[Christopher Bader]: Can I stop you for a second, Sharon? Yeah. How much longer are we going?
[Unidentified]: We only have four hours.
[Christopher Bader]: Not very much. OK, can you do it in five minutes?
[Unidentified]: Yeah. OK. Yeah, so this is from 1880, I believe. Oh, well, no, it was built between 1855 and 1875.
[Libby Brown]: They didn't have an exact date on it. And now it had been renovated and now has three condos in it. And this house over here is a Queen Anne Victoria, which was also renovated. 18 Walnut Street, you can still see. I don't know how much of the original detail he kept, but you can still see it was a Queen Anne. I just put in, this is approximately where George Fuller's shipyard was. It may have extended out to where the Vistig Valley Parkway now runs. And the Ford, the famous Medford Ford is somewhere in here. This was a shallow area before they dredged it.
[Christopher Bader]: Oh, sure.
[Libby Brown]: OK, so this was basically my original plan drawing. And it included all of this in the blue area. So it caught the 13 pre-1855 houses and a number of other ones. And then I added this little section that could get to 204 Winthrop. This section is that Toro Street Manning, Toro Manning area, and most of the houses were... God, what happened to my little legends? The blue are houses that were built between 1855 and 1875, and the red was built between 1875 and 18... 1900, let's say. And there's some of these that are quite nice, but there's an awful lot of owners to deal with here. And if we talk to them and they're for it, or some of them are for it, then by all means, let's go for it. But this would be a hard sell, I think, including all of this. This section was the section I just talked about that got the 17, 18, and 58 in there. These other houses are more recent. And this section, number 11, is a nice little house. And this is very new, 2000 and something. but you could include this.
[Unidentified]: Anyway, that's basically it. Any questions?
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. So what is your recommendation, Sharon?
[Libby Brown]: Well, truthfully, I mean, as I explained, I think we have to get The easiest thing is to pick up the houses that have owners that are interested in becoming either their house becoming a historic district or being in a historic district. Obviously, the Gates house, I'm pointing with my finger, you can't see that, the Gates house and Grandfather's house should be in a district even if it's their own. I'm writing a research report because I'm not going to leave it to chance to make my house a single house historic district. And Anne Marie is really motivated to have her house be in a historic district. So these are low hanging fruit. And I think you can start with that and present all four of them to the city council at one time. And maybe also start working on a larger piece. But I think, yeah, the fastest easiest thing is to get houses that people value and are interested. This I think is possible. This guy probably won't be interested. And once the three townhouses are built, then you have to have four owners you have to deal with here. These people, I don't know whether they're interested or not. These people are probably interested. And this neighbor, I'm mostly sure he'd go along with that.
[Christopher Bader]: So this gets... We need to move on, Sharon. So can you bring back the whole, the original map that shows the blue and the green?
[Libby Brown]: Oh, yeah.
[Christopher Bader]: So, Charlotte, what do you think? What should we be having for you?
[MCM00001798_SPEAKER_03]: There's so many points that Sharon has brought up. I feel confused as to where to start. Sharon, what is your suggestion we start in order to pull this all together?
[Libby Brown]: Well, my suggestion is to start with single house historic districts, because that could be done rather rapidly. And then, I don't know, talk to the neighbors and find out how they would feel about, you know, their houses being included. Really, I don't want to deal with a lot of pushback like we had a forestry, that was just, that was an awful experience I've worked long and hard on the research for that report, and it was such a disappointment. Obviously, I'd love it if we could get the whole thing done. These houses are probably not going to be interested. They're relatively new houses.
[MCM00001798_SPEAKER_03]: Sharon, my thought is if you could point out to us some that are together that might be interested, maybe we can approach them and start somewhere.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah. Well, as I said, I think we should start with the four single house. historic districts, sorry, those four. And then we could try this. Well, actually try these houses because they're all of similar age, except for 42. I think three of them would be interested. I don't know about this. We can just do it.
[Christopher Bader]: But just a second shot. Sure. What do you think? Charlotte?
[MCM00001798_SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, I want to go wherever Sharon is leading us. She is the most informed person. I think she's done her homework on them. So, whatever we need to do to be in touch with these people, 54, 48, 42, 1, and then 15, let's make a plan on. either visiting them or sending them a letter, letting them know what our thoughts are, and maybe setting something up so they were interested in working with us.
[Libby Brown]: Well, 48, I know personally, and she's interested. OK. One, I can.
[Christopher Bader]: Sharon, I haven't had much to talk about. Sorry.
[Unidentified]: Fred, what do you? Are you talking to me, Chris?
[Christopher Bader]: No, I'm talking to Fred.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Chris. Sorry, I had to unmute there. Thank you. Thank you for this. Presentation is really excellent. Well, well done. I was really taken by your narrative of the. When you're showing all those houses from the pre 1855 and their connection to the ship building. And I, I would think we could build. A nice district. Maybe include those ones with Chad. I forget the color. Yeah. So, and, and I think we could. Some of these districts can follow the sidewalk and kind of go in and out. But all those. Yeah. All of the things. Whether the ones up at the top actually on the river. You know, I think we'd get a lot of pushback from. From that, but I'd like to see. Narrative put together that we use all those beautiful historic. I think it would be a good idea. To go back to the original layout and to the shipbuilding. And see if we can build a narrative and, and maybe knock on some doors to. To get that going. Cause we all know as from forestry, this is a political process, more than a history lesson. And. It all comes down to the. Getting the city council to go for it. So. I mean, I think we can make a compelling narrative. I think we can make a compelling narrative. An uphill push for us. But I think we can make a compelling narrative to include some of these beautiful houses for their history. And I think you can make the case of the city council. All those should be preserved here in Metro.
[Libby Brown]: I think so too. I mean, it'd be easy to connect these houses.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: The boundary that follows the sidewalk, the houses you think are in the district are technically not in the district. So we can carve this thing pretty, you know, we can gerrymander it as closely as we want. And I think we should do that.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[Christopher Bader]: Chris, what do you think?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Hi, everyone. I apologize for not being on time and I'm on the phone and I have a tough resolution, but Sharon, from what I heard, it was spectacular, right? It was really full breadth of what that area is. So I'm a fan of doing the bigger, larger narrative, but I think those first steps do make sense to get something in the can. So I'm happy to go along with Sharon's recommendations on that. But I think those narratives that we're hearing tonight are bigger than those individual houses. That whole area is screaming for attention. So I took pictures I've been down there the last two nights walking it and I see it needs enhancement for beautification and signage and things to help showcase that. I think that's what this historic district could do is make that area a little prettier. Maybe we could advocate for curbscape and think it's a historic district that needs some cleanup. There's a lot of work done on there with the road. So I'm an advocate of the larger narrative of all the breadth, including Judea Truro and the shipyards and the Ford. I mean, that's Medford's story. That's the heartbeat of it. So I'm a fan of trying to make this larger as an experience, South Street experience, shipbuilding, Coopers. Why? I'm sorry.
[Libby Brown]: There we go. I like this one. Hi.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: It's real. It's really good. And I think that that it really has more than four single units districts rather. But I think first step is important. But that's that whole area needs to be showcased. That whole area. That's my fan. I'm happy to elaborate more. I took pictures of so many different things down there. I'm doing a Victorian stroll in about a month. I'm going to be showcasing that area. Talk more about that later offline. But I'd like to go for the larger narrative, but I'm happy to advocate for those four to get people used to what that is and what that process is.
[Libby Brown]: Chris, you didn't knock on my door when you were down here.
[Christopher Bader]: Just to be clear, you want to start out with the four houses and then expand it, is that correct?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I think that makes sense to get a victory. I would like not to give up on the larger scope of that, I think to get a victory and let people see it's not something that's going to tie people down. But the stories around their fish weirs, the Native American, Mass Bay Colony. I didn't hear all of your piece, Sharon, but I'll go back and listen to it. I apologize. I was waiting with bated breath to hear that. So I'll go back and listen to it. So I'd like to advocate for something larger, you know, for that. But I think the first step, Fred, excuse me, Chris, is those local historic districts.
[Libby Brown]: single house districts.
[Unidentified]: Single house districts. Thank you. Okay. What do you think about that Fred?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if that's the feeling of the group, I, um, I agree. It'd be nice to get something under our belt here. Um, but I'm a little more inclined personally to go with the, uh, at least those pre 1855 and Sharon's house and Truro house and things to, um, And I don't know what that map would look like. I don't think it looks like this map, but there is some map that I could get behind. Maybe that map, something like that, yeah. And we can carve it all along. We connect them all and make them happen.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. Can you come up with a map that you would do? Can I ask people to come up with the map you would draw?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Well, what's the. Sharon, how did you do this, I guess this is a PDF but how did you get the map with all the locks in the street names and all that.
[Libby Brown]: Oh, there's a Massachusetts parcel map of the whole state. And just. The top of my head, I don't know the URL, but it's a cool map.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: And you can box out this neighborhood and print it to a PDF, is that how you did it?
[Libby Brown]: Yeah, I don't remember whether I, this has been a while since I did this. I may have downloaded it or I may have just done a screen capture and then, I don't remember.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Fred, Kristen, sorry to interrupt, Chris Bader. I did make a Gmail account for this group if they would like to use it. It's Medford HDC at Gmail. I'll send you all information. But it's a place we can maybe store pictures and store different parts of this. So there's a Gmail account that's out there that we can use. I'll populate. I'll send everyone an invitation. Everyone's an administrator. everyone can edit and add but it's medfordhdc at gmail.com i'll send everyone a link and we'll decide if we want to use it either officially or just as a dumping ground maybe for some of this um uh paperwork pdfs pictures etc okay you mean a google drive uh correct correct okay oh so it's google drive and you can put documents there yeah Correct, and it has Gmails that can be emanated from that, but that's just more of a place I needed to kind of dump all my things so I could get at them easier. So it could be a resource if needed.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay, so just to be clear, we cannot conduct substantive conversations by email. That is not allowed.
[Libby Brown]: I think he's more talking about, like on Google Drive, you can put documents. Oh, sure. And that's what he's talking about.
[Christopher Bader]: But we need to, any substantive discussion like the one we're having now has to be done in compliance with open meeting laws. Roger that.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: So Chris, how do we, or Sharon, how can we get a PDF of what you just showed us here? Can you make a PDF? Distribute that because I'd like to go in more detail with what you just presented.
[Libby Brown]: You want this particular slide or the whole.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: The whole deck.
[Libby Brown]: Oh, yeah.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Page by page.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah, I guess I could make it into a PDF. I'll do something and I'll mail it to Chris and he can or everybody.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Chris Bader, I also stopped by the library and I got assigned up for a date to use the Bonsignori room, which is the large room upstairs. And maybe we could do a presentation. I thought maybe the first time we could just maybe use it and present and talk. But if we had to do a public meeting, I'm not sure if it'd be at City Hall, but the library wanted to try and utilize that resource. So I think I have a date set up for us in December, whether it's just in-house originally or something for the public meeting to eventually come.
[Christopher Bader]: I wanted to try and open that door. We can get the city council chamber for the public meeting. So thank you for doing that. But the city hall chambers is available on a lot of evenings.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: There was just some high-tech things at the library, big screen, speakers, all this stuff. But we'll use the city council. It makes sense. They have that at city hall.
[Christopher Bader]: But yeah, thank you for doing that. Okay, so my personal feeling is that we should be, that we should start, that we should do the opposite, that we should start with something that we think we can, the maximum we think we can achieve and maybe whittle it down. But I think a lot of people mentioned this, The first thing we should do is community outreach. We should find out what people want, right? So if there are people in, say, on Toro Avenue or on Manning Street or on Maple Ave that want their houses in historic districts or who, you know, are not opposed to it, but just want to, say, preserve their neighborhood.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Chris, I'm happy to work with Sharon. Sounds like Sharon's done a lot of legwork on that. particular outreach, knowing who's who, if there's any gaps that need to be filled in, I'm happy to help her with that or try and work that connection with her.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay. Sharon, do you have the time or interest to do some outreach, community outreach? Because you do live there.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: You just have to point me in a direction, but anything you can do is fine.
[Christopher Bader]: Maybe we can leave it to Kristen.
[Libby Brown]: I'd rather contact my own neighbors.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I'll follow your lead, Sharon, absolutely.
[Libby Brown]: Okay, let's talk, Chris. Okay. Yeah, I'm not inclined to whittle down. I'm inclined to start small and build it up just because I'll be crushed if that kind of the stuff that happened on Forest Street happens with a bigger section.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I'm not going to let that happen this time. That's not going to happen.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I'm, if it's in my power, I'm not gonna let that happen either. Let me just tell you three, three reasons why I think this is different from Forest Street. First of all, all The vast majority of these houses were built before 1900. That was not true on Forest Street. The other thing is, there's been a huge amount of development. People are concerned. They're seeing what's happening. I think probably a lot of them are not happy about it.
[Libby Brown]: But then there's the people that want to be able to sell their house to a developer who will give them a top dollar for it.
[Christopher Bader]: That is also a consideration. So I think community outreach is the solution here. And once we know who is for it and who's against it, then I think we can draw the lines.
[Unidentified]: That's my opinion.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I'd like to offer the committee an opportunity to ride on the trolley. I'm doing the Victorian stroll going down South Street. I'll actually be lighting it up on the 3rd and the 4th and the 10th and the 11th. I have a plan. It's happening anyways. It happens to do with South Street. But one of the tours, we could go as a group and travel that if you'd like. It's an opportunity. I'll throw it up to Chris and you can decide. But I have a bunch of tours going on. That's December 3rd and 4th. 10th and the 11th and South Street and Grandfather's House as part of the tour. It could be part of this outreach. I'm going to be selling South Street, nothing from the Historic District Commission, but as an independent doing those tours. So a couple of things could be beneficial to celebrate that area. But as a group, I'd be more than willing to bring everybody on the tour for a look-see.
[Christopher Bader]: So who operates the trolley?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I do a thing called Historic Medford. I did them all through the summer. I did about 30 tours. That's my side job in the summer. I'm a tourism narrator on a double-decker bus, but Joseph's Limousine provided us the same limousine that the Liberty Tree uses, Liberty Ride uses in Lexington. So I get it in the mornings and the afternoons and they get midday. So I've scheduled something for during the Christmas tree lighting and the Jingle Bells Festival, there'll be a trolley going around Medford at 1, 3, 5, and 7. In one of those dates, if anybody wants to come or to go as a group, we can kind of go as a group and kind of see that area with a different set of eyes. But to walk that area is a lot different from seeing it from bird's eye view. You got to walk those streets. But those things are coming up. I'll invite you to the group.
[Christopher Bader]: I think we have to be careful of a perceived conflict of interest here, Chris. you know, this is a business you're connected with. We just have to be very careful about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was sure it's all. Yeah, it's it's not it's not profit. There's no profit for it. But I don't know. But it just it just I'm very good.
[Christopher Bader]: We have to be concerned with perception. Understood. I think I think is walking is probably is a good idea. You and Sharon have done that. I think we should all do that. But I think reaching out to, I would suggest reaching out to people, first of all, to the four houses that Sharon mentioned, but also to other houses, particularly those that were built before 1855. Like, can you bring back the slide that had roughly 10 houses on it, Sharon? Yeah. Well, okay. What was, there was something with more houses, right? Is that the most?
[Libby Brown]: Four houses?
[Christopher Bader]: Just the maximum that you had with the yellows.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Libby Brown]: Those are all- Yeah, these are not all pre-1855. Okay. So this one, this one, there's 13 of them. Let me go all the way back here.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: But they all have a story to tell, right? Sharon, they all have a story to tell.
[pHtJcMxcqAQ_SPEAKER_25]: Of course, of course.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah, these are the 13 pre-1855 houses. So that's grandfather's house. Here's the Gates house. Here's the 54 South Street, 48 South Street, the Bradbury house. 31 South Street, 23 South Street, 30 South Street. This is the one that was moved back.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. In some ways, this looks like I would start with the basis of the map almost on this one and include your house in it and any other ones that might be in there. I think this is a good base starting point rather than four houses. Yeah. Whatever we have here.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah. Well, there still seems to be two groupings here and then here.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: From the district down South street on one side and the other. It doesn't have to be anything in it, but, uh, you know, And that really, we show that original map with your stars on it and we show the district map with on the modern overlay. And we got ourselves a, you know, a narrative to follow and to support.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah, I think I think phrase on the right track here. Charlotte, what do you think?
[MCM00001798_SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to understand it. I'm kind of lost where, you know, where we're thinking of going, but I see the group, you know, right by South Street.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah, and here.
[MCM00001798_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Two separate groups. So certainly we could tie one, you know, tie them together.
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Libby Brown]: I really wish this house was still there. That's the Abraham Turow house. Now it's two triple-deckers here and three here.
[Christopher Bader]: Let me just inject another consideration here, is that there's a huge amount of statutory stuff that needs to happen with any historic district, whether it's one house or 10. So it would be certainly desirable to start out with something like the stars that Fred was talking about. Because that could be turned into a single district. Or the yellow ones here, say. Most of these are the 1855 ones.
[Libby Brown]: Oh, OK. Yeah. That one's not. That one's not, my house is not.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: But Sharon, do we have a form B for every one of the 1855 houses on file that we could just collect together and use in the official report?
[Libby Brown]: I believe so. Because that's where I got a lot of the information, but I'll certainly check it.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Google Drive. Because you're right, Chris, we need, we follow all the, The steps. And I think we're well along with the steps. And if we have the form Bs, we don't have to do all that. The next step for us is to establish a boundary that we all can vote on and then find out how we write a report for this thing. That's the next question. We need a preliminary report that tells the narrative.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. And is this the right moment to be talking about who should do that?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Well, we could see if anyone volunteers to do that. We had talked before about having the professionals do it. Yeah.
[Christopher Bader]: I was actually personally thinking, I don't know if she's available, but I was personally thinking about Claire Dempsey.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Claire, who's the other gentleman we've worked with all the time over there?
[Christopher Bader]: Clemson, John Clemson.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yes, John Clemson. I don't know. I don't know if they're willing to, we have the budget for that. If we've got all the foreign bees, we, we, as a commission have to decide on the boundaries, but I think we probably can. Hash that out amongst ourselves and then. Have the report that. You know, is the real thing. We start submitting to the historical commission and the city hall. In addition to all the outreach, but it sounds like Chris is willing to do some of the. you know, we could start seeing if we can pull this thing together.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: And Sharon, if I could ask you, do you have a timeline when like for success on this? So outreach, talking to people, putting in Chris Bader, Chris in front of the council. So when, if this was successful, when would you see that would spring, you know, be, be, be too late or too early timeline?
[Christopher Bader]: I would like to hold the, I would like to hold the hearing. Well, we need 60 days notice, right? So I would like to hold the hearing, uh, sort of January, February timeframe. And I would like to wrap the whole thing. I would like to get the whole thing improved. Uh, and through city council by may.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Chris, when we say the six 60 days, do we already have to have a narrative and paperwork together by then? Does it have to be like completely flushed out?
[Christopher Bader]: I have to review that in principle. Yes.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: It's 60 days after we submit the, um, I'm sorry. The report to the historical commission.
[Christopher Bader]: Right. Right. So we need to agree. We need to agree. On the boundaries. Claire or someone else or John or. Needs to write the report. And, and then 60 days clock starts. We have a public hearing.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Okay. Chris, could we, could we think for the next meeting? By the next meeting, have it locked down as far as the size and dimensions of the, of the district and. Let's have that settled by then by next meeting. Okay.
[Christopher Bader]: Fred, can you take a lead on that? Do you have time?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: I can try Chris. If. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I
[Libby Brown]: You can talk to, you know, come up with a boundary. I mean, the. Historic historical commission does work behind the scenes all the time.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So it's going to be less than three of us. You know, meeting or whatever. So we can't, we can't vote on stuff and all that. So if we have our subcommittee and Sharon, if you're I I'm happy to meet at the meeting or the old room in the city hall. Or do it on zoom, whatever it is, but we may have to. I think there's some, as we've already seen, there's going to be some back and forth that everyone has their opinion. Our subcommittee, which I'm not a member of, because we currently have three. So it was. Chris, Chris and Joe.
[Christopher Bader]: I would like you to be on the. On the, on the, on the committee.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. I don't think we can. Work with three of us and do it. And whatever. Non. Conflicting methods.
[Christopher Bader]: I don't think I'm not sure Joe is. Yes. I think he did volunteer last time, but I'm not sure he's. Set on it. I think he was just trying to be helpful.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: And Chris Bader, how do we bring in and Sharon into the, into that, into that.
[Christopher Bader]: You know, so the subcommittee can't vote on anything. So, you know, she has as much as we know, as any of us, right?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Oh, good, good, good.
[Christopher Bader]: So I just want to follow all that lead and all that forward, you know, follow the wake of- Any decisions, any formal decisions that require a vote have to be approved by the full commission. And actually for transparency reasons, I would prefer to meet by Zoom because it means that it'll just give us some, so they're gonna be FOIA requests about this because people are gonna get pissed off and they're gonna bring lawyers in. And the best way to cover ourselves against that is to have everything recorded on Zoom. so that the lawyers, if they get involved, can just say, oh, well, yeah, we had this meeting, and we have all the recordings of it. Do people agree with that, or do you think that's overkill?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think, Chris, we could also, if we meet at the library city hall, we can have a camera there and record it Or, you know, have Dennis set up a live Zoom feed, whatever, so that it does become part of that. There's a couple of ways I'm sure we could do it.
[Libby Brown]: I also think that, you know, just as I said, the historical commission does work behind the scenes and then presents it all at the public meeting. So I don't see a problem with having a small group of you guys and then, you know, a community member or two.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: But Sharon when they do that, is it do you meet in person do you know like they just get together to coffee shop or they do it on. Zoom or, you know?
[Libby Brown]: I think depending on where they just talk. It's not everybody. It's like they each have separate assignments or a couple of them, you know?
[Unidentified]: Yeah.
[Libby Brown]: Like there's people that preview the, you know, whatever building permits are being applied for and then decide which ones that they need to see. They bring them to the group. I think two people do that, you know? There's two people in kibbutz, let's say. And then they go talk to various people, the building department, the CP, well, all sorts of things go on. I mean, you can talk to Jen about that.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll reach out to Ryan and just ask him, because I know he's on a lot of those. you know, with Doug Carr and all those guys. So we, I might just reach out to Doug.
[Libby Brown]: Yeah, I mean, Doug and Doug Carr and Peter Miller will work on, um, you know, helping the developers come up with a better design, you know, so they can have the, you know, and they put in a lot of work and, um, you know, and they're not, they don't bring that before the, um,
[Unidentified]: You know, they bring it up at the meeting after they've talked with the developers and all that. Okay.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: So how can we meet and get those definitive dimensions and size of that before the next meeting? How can we kind of try and pull together what Sharon's has already done and then try and stretch those boundaries a little bit?
[Christopher Bader]: Here's an idea. Okay. Fred. So. Can you come up with what you would think would be a good boundary for the district?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll take. Sharon's maps. When they're available to us, PDF. I'll make a blank version. I'll get my. Blue marker out from my. PDF. Whatever. And the circle circle, some stuff. Yeah, I can do that.
[Unidentified]: Okay, great.
[Christopher Bader]: I think Sharon has, do you wanna, I think you've already done that Sharon, basically, right? Or do you wanna?
[Libby Brown]: I mean, I can do what I think Fred can do, what he thinks and you know, whatever.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, if everybody wants to take an individual stab at it, you know, that's more than welcome to.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay, yeah.
[Libby Brown]: I bet Chris has ideas too.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Yeah, okay, so why don't you- Go ahead. I don't know, Chris, but I think what you've outlined, Sharon, for the tightness of those things is great. So now we have to try and come in selling what other property and to almost pitch it. Is it gonna work? Has it reached the bar to get on it? But otherwise you've pulled together some of the basics and minimum of things that should definitively be in there, but now we'll try and sell any other maybe properties that may fit the grade, fit the bar, raise above the bar.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay, so here's a proposal. I would suggest that Fred and anyone come up with his own map of what we should be trying for. And anybody else who wants to do that should just come up with your own map and then we can meet to sort of hash it out. And then as far as, I think we all agree that community outreach is very important. And I'd like Chris Donovan to take the lead on that and to come up with an outreach plan. Can you do that, Chris?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I can. And I have my soft ways of doing it, but I'd love just a little bit of the legalese of the things that we should be saying and promoting. And I'll run it by you, Chris Bader, before. Oh, sure. Information that's already out there and I'll try and use the stuff from Chris Kiley. Chris, the consultant that we have Chris last name. Oh, Skelly.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay, so Chris Skelly is done with our project. Okay, I didn't know if he presented any paperwork to say how to adjust. Unless we want to authorize more money, he's done.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I don't think we need them until we get that paperwork that needs to be legally used, you know, through. But as far as the text for what to say and what to talk to people out in the street, how to promote it. So between talking to Sharon with people she's already covered and legally, Chris, what stuff should be said and not said, I'll run that by us. I'm happy to work an outreach program for you.
[Christopher Bader]: Fantastic.
[pHtJcMxcqAQ_SPEAKER_25]: I think you have to be very delicate because
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Understood. And I'll follow your lead, Sharon. We'll talk offline, but I will follow your lead for who needs to be addressed and who you've already worked and who, you know, needs velvet gloves.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay. Right. So do we want to assign more tasks or do you think that covers it between now and the next meeting?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: We've got a chunk in front of us between outreach, the size of the district, and then the paperwork, the details of each house, and the narrative. That's a bunch.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah. And of course, we need a concrete outreach plan. And of course, we have some money in the budget. We haven't really spent any of it yet.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Chris, is there a chance to make a flyer or a brochure? Okay, I'll try and write something and then you can look at it, but if we could get some things printed and hand someone a large business card or a poster.
[Christopher Bader]: I think that's a great idea. I think that's a great idea. Okay, so I think Fred and Chris both have a lot on their plates. Is it okay just to meet at our regular meeting next month? Is that soon enough?
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Okay. Let's see if we can pass the, some maps back and forth or whatever. So I'd like to. See if we can have a consensus next meeting. About what this, what the outlines of this district are.
[SPEAKER_02]: So however. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.
[Unidentified]: So that would be the eighth of December. That's right. Okay.
[Christopher Bader]: Does anybody have any more comments?
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: I just want to say thank you, Sharon. It looked like a great presentation. I was on spotty Wi-Fi, so I didn't see much of it, so I can't wait to get home and watch this meeting.
[Christopher Bader]: Amen to that.
[SxgiOOMwDHY_SPEAKER_22]: Thank you, Sharon.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Well, Chris, we have a couple other people. I guess you should just open it up to the public to see if.
[Christopher Bader]: Oh yeah, absolutely. Do we have comments? Marianne, do you have any, uh, anything you want to, uh, anybody have any comments?
[Unidentified]: All in favor of closing the meeting.
[Christopher Bader]: Uh, okay. Motion to adjourn.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I motion to adjourn.
[Christopher Bader]: Okay. Second. Second. Okay, thank you, Sharon. Charlotte. Okay, so we'll adjourn and we'll meet again on December 8. And we will consider at least Fred's proposed boundaries. And we will also be thinking about Chris's proposed outreach plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. All right.
[Christopher Bader]: Thank you all. I think we're making I think we're on the right track here.
[MCM00001302_SPEAKER_02]: Good, me too. We'll see how it goes.
[Christopher Bader]: Yeah.
[pHtJcMxcqAQ_SPEAKER_25]: Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
[Christopher Bader]: Yes, indeed.
[pHtJcMxcqAQ_SPEAKER_25]: You too, Charlotte.
[Unidentified]: All right. All right, bye-bye.