[Milva McDonald]: Welcome everyone to the April 3rd, 2024 meeting of the Chartered Study Committee, Article 6 Subcommittee, i.e. the section on financial procedures. Maury may be joining us. Hopefully he will, but he wasn't sure he had another meeting. So the first item on the agenda is the minutes.
[Jean Zotter]: Move approval. Okay. I'm abstaining. I wasn't here.
[Milva McDonald]: OK. I don't know if I can second.
[Jean Zotter]: Can I second? But no, I can't.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know. We can probably table them until next time. All right. We'll table them until next time or until Maury gets here. How's that? OK. Okay, I forgot to bring the agenda down. I'm really sorry, guys. I think we were going to talk about the issue of the budget ordinance. I mean, amendment.
[Jean Zotter]: Which one? The one that... There's one that passed, right? That's just like a timeline.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, the ordinance is still not officially passed, but it's being finalized, as I understand it.
[Eunice Browne]: So the ordinance would be- Yeah, according to their first reading and the second reading, it should pass later this month. Okay. It's pretty much a done deal.
[Jean Zotter]: So, yeah, go ahead, Jean. Oh, well, is that the one you mean, or the one that was sent to the mayor, which he sent to us?
[Milva McDonald]: Yes, the charter amendment, which we talked about at our full committee meeting last time and voted to not accept. And then you had wanted to re-raise it, so that's-
[Jean Zotter]: Yes, so I think first I want to make sure I understand what happened like the history. But I was. So, did that. This is the amendment that would have allowed city council to move money. My understanding. Yeah. Did they vote in favor of it and send it to the mayor who did not sign it? Is that what happened? Yeah, that's what I understand. Okay, so city council, was it unanimous?
[Milva McDonald]: I think it was one no. I feel that initially it was unanimous and then it turned 6-1. Is that what you recall, Eunice?
[Eunice Browne]: I don't recall one way or the other, but I'm just thinking that amendment would have been the prior council. Yes, that's right. And the vote tabulation on that council was quite often four to three. Yes. Versus the tabulation on this council, which is generally six to one.
[Milva McDonald]: For these amendments, they were unanimous, and then Adam Knight changed and ultimately voted no. That's what I remember.
[Jean Zotter]: OK. So we have a near unanimous city council, even though it's a prior city council. wanted this power, sent it to the mayor. I'm going through my thinking with everyone. Sent it to the mayor who said, I'm not going to sign it. I would like the Charter Study Committee to review it and consider it as part of the charter, whether it made sense. As I was thinking about that, I feel like I understand where most people are with this amendment and that their vote may not change. Yet I feel like we should do our due diligence on researching it because it seems, I don't want to say disrespectful, I can't think of the right word, to not do due diligence on it and actually consider it since that is what The mayor said we would do so that was we just so what I was envisioning and I'm volunteering myself for this, even though I seem to have perhaps taken on too much recently. So I apologize was just looking into like, why. What is the reasoning behind why most cities don't do this? Do other states allow cities to do this? Because our state and federal government, the legislative body, has this power. And then research how it's going in cities in Massachusetts that have this authority with city council. There is only one. Is this Boston? Yes. So, and I already researched that a little bit. So that's what that's my thinking is I just feel like. It seems like we didn't really even consider it. And I just, we need to say what we looked at and why we made our decision, but.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. I mean, so I hear you and thank you for offering to do the research. I feel, and we can't do it tomorrow night because I didn't put it on the agenda, but we are still meeting on April 18th. I feel like we have to go back to the whole committee before we pay that step? I saw that in the minutes, yeah. Yeah, just because, you know, because the committee already voted. So, you know, and we did look at this when we talked about it at the committee meeting, which is the state law, which may be one of the main reasons cities don't do it because it's, says state law says they can't, but doesn't mean a special act couldn't get by. And as you can see, it exempts Boston in any city other than Boston. And where's the part that says, the city council may by majority vote make appropriations for the purposes recommended and may reduce or reject any amount recommended in the annual budget It shall not increase any amount in or the total of the annual budget nor add there to any amount for a purpose not included there and except on recommendation of the mayor. Then there's a little bit of a different procedure for the school committee or there could be as I understand it. But I feel like this is pretty clear. And I thought that the reasoning was that we, that putting something in the charter that could potentially be, it could be rejected by the state because they could say it's in conflict with the state. So, you know, obviously, I mean, it's a special act, so theoretically the state could say, okay. But the advisability of including something in the charter that's clear, I mean, it's pretty clear, that statute. So that I thought, to me, that was the reasoning why we didn't do it. But if you feel strongly, we can go back to the committee and see if they want to keep looking into it. So would you look at Boston?
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah, I did a little Google, just like how is it going in Boston. I mean, Boston has a huge, well, it's under a million, but people. Budget probably. is 20 times Medford budget or more. And so they're different, I think, than Medford and other cities and towns. And they've done two budget cycles with this process, as I understand it. Right. In the first cycle, they were late. It was a messy process. The second cycle seems like it was less messy. so yeah yeah and i i don't completely understand the reasoning behind it like i don't know why city council can't move money around
[Milva McDonald]: Well, when I read about it, some of the arguments that people made were there was concern about sort of like kind of hordes trading, you know, that the, well, OK, you know, between the city councilors, it just makes a much messier process.
[Eunice Browne]: Right. What did the Cohen Center folks say to us? Do we remember?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, they just they were just advising us about the state law mostly. I mean, you know, I don't know that they would, I don't know, maybe they would be willing to say whether they think it's a good idea. They usually kind of, I mean, they might. Right.
[Eunice Browne]: I wonder if somebody, who at the state level, what office would be the one to talk to?
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah, would Donato know? Yeah, maybe.
[Milva McDonald]: What would we ask him?
[Jean Zotter]: Why the legislature made that the law, why?
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, I don't know how long the law, let's see, can you tell in the, do they indicate in the MDL how long, you know, when they passed? I don't know how old the law is.
[Jean Zotter]: I don't know. I think so, if you can. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: All I'm saying is, depending on when the law was passed, he may not actually know. Right. He wasn't around when it was passed. I don't know.
[Eunice Browne]: Oh, go ahead. It's sort of all sides of this coin. I mean, the conversation that we had within the whole group was sort of to reject it fairly quickly because it does go against state law that Boston is the only one that does it. And that's a relatively new thing for them. And as you report, Jean, the first time around was messy. Of course, you could argue that the first time for anything is messy. But on the other hand, I see your point two of the mayor handed it to us. So we should give it its due diligence that she expects of us. And I think the other thought that I have is that this originated from the city council and They want it, so if we're going to reject it, which I'm pretty sure that that's the direction I'm still continuing to go on my vote, is that we need to settle it once and for all with good, solid, factual backup to put it to bed.
[Jean Zotter]: Right. And I have to say, I'm leaning towards not approving it also. But I just, did we do our due diligence, I guess is the question.
[Milva McDonald]: My feeling is that we did, but if there's ambivalence, or we can look back at it. And Jean, if you're willing to look into it more. I mean, how the process went in Boston is probably going to also be subjective, just because I know there was one member who talked about even how it went in Boston this year and felt that it was messy. So there's different. thoughts that people will have about that.
[Jean Zotter]: And I don't know, there may be fiscal concerns that states and the federal government don't have, right? But like, Massachusetts, the state has been late on its state budget, multiple years in a row. And, and yet the, that is the system they have set up that the legislature, the governor, bargain and the two houses in the legislature have to come to a conference. So I just don't understand why cities and towns are different, but maybe it's the financial rating system is different or the reserves for a state are different than the city. But it might be nice to just know some of that.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. I mean, to me, there's an inherent difference between the state house, which is the legislative bodies in the state house represent communities all over the state, whereas when you have an individual city, there's just everybody's in the same city. So it's not like you're bringing different viewpoints from across the state. It's one city. You know, and the other thing is the way the ordinance is written, if I understand it correctly, and I think I'm correct on this is that so right now, if. the city council doesn't really have power to reject the mayor's budget because there's this one, then they do a one 12 budget and then within a certain amount of time, the mayor's budget is in place. So, and I know that that upsets them. So that's the other thing is, I mean, this was put forth by the city council and it's about giving them more power. So I feel like there's a certain bias in the creation of it, but, But the ordinance, I mean, the amendment would basically make it so that they could move the money, they could change it. The only thing they can't do is they can't increase the overall amount. But then they send it to the mayor and if the mayor sends it back, they can just overrule that with a two-thirds vote. So to me, that just takes a lot away from the executive, which, you know, and I know that people talk about balance of power and that they think the balance of power needs to change, but at the same time, people want a mayor council form of government. So this is what a mayor council form of government is. In every community in Massachusetts that has a mayor council government, the balance of power is the way it is in Medford, because that's what a mayor council government is. So if we want that form of government, then that's sort of where we are. Unless we want to try to buck state law and see if it makes it through.
[Jean Zotter]: And I'm the person that said we shouldn't do too many big things or it might not get passed. So I realize I'm the person that's been saying that. I also are there other ways of because we did hear from a lot of residents that they want a better balance of power so I feel like by not. This is one of the ways of balancing power is there. Is there a way to change that process that you just mentioned where, you know, say they reject the budget, like is there a way to change that? Is there a way to give them a little more, I guess, power in the process? I was also- In the budget, you're talking about the budget process specifically. Yeah, either, You know, I know we're setting up timelines because that has always been a complaint that they get the budget last minute. But is there like, you know, even like early in January having a meeting that They put their priorities on the table. I don't know, just setting up, even though they have no, like, is there a way they could just say, here are our priorities? And then the city says, here's our revenue. Our revenue is not what we thought. Like, even though they didn't put fully, they do have forecasts and they have pictures and they're just forcing them to collaborate more, I guess.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, a lot of that is going in the budget ordinance, but I think that I feel like is shifting our discussion to our actual draft document. And I think it's fine if we do that. I just want to wrap up this particular topic. So and understand the conclusion, which is that we're going to bring it back to the whole committee and see and just talk about and say that Jean is willing to research it so that we can have more information Right. I mean, and are we saying that we want to reopen it for another future vote or that we're just collecting more information? Hi, Maury.
[Jean Zotter]: Hi, Maury. Hi, Maury. I mean, maybe we should open it for a future vote.
[Maury Carroll]: Hi, everyone.
[Jean Zotter]: Sorry I'm late. I had another meeting. That's OK. I'm glad you're here because I have to leave in a few minutes.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, maybe we don't have to say that. Maybe we can just see if the committee is willing to reopen it for more information. And then let when the information is received, there can be a decision on whether people want to.
[Jean Zotter]: I mean, you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Research on this, like maybe I don't know. Yeah, it will be interesting to see if there was, but okay.
[Milva McDonald]: So this is, so Maury and I went to talk to the chief financial officer and the chief of staff, and it was a good meeting. So the first item, Jean, is something similar to what you were saying, although it's not in January. Oh, sorry. For the blind among us. There is that good. Thank you.
[Unidentified]: Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: So, so, you know, basically what we had done was we had a bunch of, we had timelines that we thought seemed reasonable, but we wanted to make sure that they were. that they were actually doable and talk to people who actually do the job so that we knew for sure that we weren't proposing something that wasn't feasible. So this annual budget meeting is along the lines of what we've been talking about. It requires a joint meeting of all the branches of government before the commencement of the budget process to review the financial condition of the city, revenue and expenditure forecasts, and other relevant information. And what we had, well, we had talked about the window, right? So no later, it's, you have to like, July 1st is the beginning of the fiscal year, so. So no later than 60 days is, yeah, so it's between March and May. And I believe it was, one of the things that we heard when we talked to Nina and the CFO is, that there's a date in the budget ordinance, which is not finalized yet, but it's in the works, to supply numbers to the school committee and that this date could sort of run into that. Like, for instance, they were saying, well, so the two potential ways to fix that potential problem is to just make it no later than 60 days before the beginning of the fiscal year or making the no earlier than a little later. I mean, yeah, a little later. So changing that to 100 days.
[Maury Carroll]: 100 days, right, exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: So what are people's thoughts? I'd like to give them a window, so. I mean, you know, They can have it as early as they want if we say no later than, but so, you know, it's not like it doesn't preclude them from having it earlier if they wanted to or if they were able to.
[Jean Zotter]: I like giving them the flexibility to say no later than. Just saying no later than. So if they want to meet earlier, they can. you know, it's the charter.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, but, Gene, my thoughts on that was when we talked about a window and so forth, and was that you don't want them to hold this meeting in November or December when they're only five or six months into the fiscal year, that they don't have any really hard numbers. You know, that's kind of where we came up there. I see. So correct me if I'm wrong. And our discussion with them is that they kind of like the 100 day thing of shortening a little bit. I mean, I kind of like I like the window myself want to hold their feet to the fire and come back in November when they are any time they want. As long as it's 60 days prior to the beginning of the fiscal year that they hold the meeting and they don't have any hardcore numbers. They haven't gone through any tough times during the year, only six months into the program or four or five months into the program, yet they've met the obligation of having the meeting. I want to make sure they have a meeting that they're able to say, okay, this is where we're at for this year that we're in. That was my only thought process on the window.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, I mean, and one of the I my thought is that another reason that the window came up is because there has been so much talk about, you know, starting the budget process earlier. And one of the things that we've learned is that that you can't really have it much before March because there's just not, you know, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be useful because there's really not information, you know, there's not reliable information. So that, so I feel like that, that putting in the window was kind of a response to that. But I mean, the charter is the charter and it's, It's not, it's enshrined, right? Theoretically, we're gonna put a regular charter review in, but leaving it general and putting in flexibility, there's something to be said for that. Jean?
[Jean Zotter]: That makes sense to me, Maury. What you said is that you wanna give a window that's where the numbers are firmer. I wonder if there could be something that says nothing precludes earlier meetings to share budget forecasts. I just know like when I worked in state government and you're halfway in, they knew if revenue was down much earlier than, you know, so there'd often be nine C cuts or things because they didn't have the revenue. So it's just, is there a way that people can all be on the same page if they, I don't know, I don't know if this isn't how city works, but I know that state government, they often know when their tax revenue is much lower than anticipated.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't think that this would preclude any meetings. I feel like this only says that the mayor has to call an annual budget meeting in this window or before. Okay. I don't know. That's my reading of it. It doesn't say that they can't call other meetings. That doesn't say that to me, but Eunice.
[Eunice Browne]: Oh, I mean, that's kind of what I was getting at in our last meeting and some other conversations where I suggested something in January and I've also suggested that. we put something in there and perhaps it goes in a different place under the school committee and the legislative and executive, all three, where the three branches of government get together at some regular interval and just talk about how things are going. You know, as I said before, that some of the issues within the school system, you know, might not have come to a head if. I mean, obviously anything that's going on in the schools, the mayor knows because she's at the school committee meetings as part of her role, but it leaves the city council in the dark. So I think if all three branches of government had a regular schedule of collaboration, they might not do a deep dive into the budget, but at least they'll have a clue about what's going on so that budget stuff is not as much of a big surprise. And then they can do the deep dive into the budget, you know, during this March through May meeting that we're talking about.
[Milva McDonald]: But when you say talking, when you're talking about these regular required meetings, you're talking about them in relationship to the budget.
[Eunice Browne]: Um, A meeting in January could possibly be more of a deeper dive into a budget, but I think there has to be better collaboration amongst the three branches regardless.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, I think, I believe that in, we're going to look at articles two and three tomorrow, but I believe there were some things in there about the city council and the mayor being able to you know, compel attendance at meetings.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, well, I mean, that actually came up last night, to some degree, so.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, so we'll look at that. But beyond the budget, I guess I can't think of any reason why the city council and the school committee have to meet. Because that's the only... The city council approves the budget, but they don't really have anything else to do with the business of the school committee. Right? Am I missing something?
[Eunice Browne]: No, you're not. You're not missing something. You know, as has been said many times, it's the city council where it's the people's forum, where people come to, you know, feel heard. And that's why I'm suggesting, you know, that there be more collaboration amongst the three branches. And part of that can be with the budget. So.
[Maury Carroll]: I think, Eunice, if I'm hearing you right, it's more kind of like, the three bodies getting together in an informal type session where it's the state of the city address between themselves and what kind of condition they're in and what their needs are to stop me maybe laying the groundwork out for the upcoming budget of, we're going to need this, we're going to need that, and how do we work together to formulate that? I think that's a perfect world. I'm not so sure you're going to see that here, but I agree with that.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, hopefully this annual budget meeting would be in that direction. Jean?
[Jean Zotter]: I don't know if there's open meeting things. If the bodies meet, they have to just keep that in mind. Yeah. Which sometimes makes it harder for them to work together when they're on a stage. I was curious whether other cities have anything in their budget part of the charter that, because I think some of it is, some of the stress around the budget has been that people were caught off guard when revenue was so low and there were significant cuts and they had no time to plan from the city council or school committee side. Is there, do any cities ask for forecast updates? Like maybe the city or the CFO, and maybe this already happens, but is there a way to? What kind of forecasts? Just like where they are with revenue, just sharing on a quarterly basis how expenditures and revenue are going.
[Milva McDonald]: But like orderly reports.
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah, I'm making this up here. I don't know if I'm just wondering if any other cities.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know, but I haven't studied carefully the budget ordinance, but I do believe there was something in there about orderly reports. Yes, Eunice, you've looked at it probably more carefully than I.
[Eunice Browne]: Got it right in front of me. 1 of the 1 of the biggest complaints over the last couple of years that the city council has put forth is that they're not getting something called the warrant articles. The warrant articles apparently are like the monthly bills and so. They don't know what money's going out for what? So. They've put something in here where quarterly financial reports and meetings. The finance director will provide a written report regarding the city's finances to the council on a quarterly basis, no later than 60 days. After the end of each quarter, the report shall contain the following. Previous quarters accounts payable warrants by month, year to date budget to actuals, where available updates on state certifications, revenue forecasts, spending forecasts, and any other information the finance director deems relevant. So there's your forecasts, Jean.
[Jean Zotter]: Yeah, OK.
[Eunice Browne]: That sounds good to me. That sounds good. Yeah. So going into the ordinance, which is due to pass momentarily.
[Milva McDonald]: And the difference between whatever ordinance gets passed and the charter is that the, you know, a charter by nature should be more general because it's a lot harder to change and it doesn't tend to, charters don't tend to go into those kinds of details.
[Jean Zotter]: Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: So, I mean, you know, Because whatever process is outlined in the charter, it's there until you change the charter again.
[Jean Zotter]: In Medford's case. Yeah, right. It's the truth. OK. Well, it's good to know that's in the ordinance, I think. Yeah. OK.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and what we heard from the CFO and the chief of staff is that, you know, they're both. I mean, it's an example of the I feel is the collaboration that we've been talking about that they've worked with the city council to come up with. to agree on this ordinance and that they're, even though they don't, it's not passed yet, they're actually trying to do it this year anyway, just because they actually, you know, they want to see if it works well also. So I think that...
[Eunice Browne]: They've already started it. I mean, the council came up with their priorities and it forwarded them to the mayor. The first set of budget meetings is Wednesday, April 17th, with the second set being, I believe, May 1st. There will probably be one or two others after that.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and they haven't, I don't think they have this annual budget meeting that we're proposing, and this wasn't actually in all the, well, I mean, of the three charters that we got from the Collins Center, I think this was only in Melrose. Is that what you remember? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, but, you know, I think it's a good idea. And do we remember what the timeframe was in Melrose? I think it was, they didn't have a window, they just said no later than. Yeah, they just said no later than. Yeah, and the reason for making it May was just because it's the charter and it's, you know, so enshrined. And if there happened to be a year where just for whatever reason, it was just difficult to get the budget process going before that, I don't know, like maybe a pandemic or something, I don't know. But that we just wanted to, that flexibility, wanted to build in that flexibility.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I think going back to the original point, I think doing the window of 100 days to 60 days, as Maury said, that forces them to do something within a period of time where they actually have concrete, relevant information, rather than going through the motions and checking the box and saying, oh, yeah, we did that last November. Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, this is all going to get run by the whole committee too. And we can keep these timeframes in yellow because when we send it to the committee, I mean, those are the parts that we want them to pay special attention to are the timeframes. So we can keep them in yellow and then people can ask, well, why did you pick those numbers? And we'll be able to tell them.
[Eunice Browne]: Right, you know, the feedback from, you know, Nina and Bob Dickinson, I think is really good because that gives us. You know, I mean, it's 1 thing looking at, you know, charters of other communities and things, but the key always is to remember, is it going to work in Mount in Medford? You know, Medford and now we know.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and I think the reason they. They said, I believe they said the date for providing some sort of. financial information to the school committee was like March 1st, something like that.
[Maury Carroll]: It was right around, and they were- It was right around the beginning of March and so forth, so they needed like an extra month of time to put the numbers together and so forth, because their budget takes up so much of the entire budget, if I correct.
[Milva McDonald]: Right, exactly. Yeah, that's right. So they thought that, you know, if Keeping this particular meeting sort of after the time when the school committee would get those numbers would be more useful.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: So that's why we started the window.
[Maury Carroll]: And they were great, by the way. They were so cordial and so helpful and so obliging to what we're, Milford handled 90% of it. And I was there to be there. I don't know about that. You were there to look pretty, Maury.
[Milva McDonald]: No, Maury was participant. Okay. So we're good. We're comfortable with this. And like I said, you know, I mean, there may be other things that people, other members of the committee think of when we talk about it, but I'll just leave it in yellow. I think it makes sense.
[Eunice Browne]: I had made a comment at the very, very, yeah. You know, under the title, you know, is this provide, you know, applying to school committee as well? You know, or are they gonna do their own, are we talking about an article four?
[Milva McDonald]: No, they wouldn't do their own budget stuff in article four. The school committee budget process is probably one of those, another one, I mean, so much of what the school committee does is outlined in state law, right?
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I believe they actually have to have a budget hearing as well. which is something a little bit different. I was on the school committee budget meeting at five o'clock and they alluded to that, that they've already got their schedule.
[Maury Carroll]: Do you suggest that maybe there's something to go in here with a directive to the school committee? Go ahead, yeah.
[Eunice Browne]: I think wherever anything can be ambiguous, Or, you know, we need to make clear what does or does not apply to the school committee. Is this, you know, the budget for the entire city or is this the city council piece of the budget or is this?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, the budget, this is talking about the city budget of which the school committee is budget is a part, right? So, I mean, Yes, there's separate it is a it is a quote unquote separate budget, but it's it's a it's one part of the city budget and this is about the city, but.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay, so so that's how I see it. We we refer to the school committee, you know.
[Milva McDonald]: specifically so as we move through I think I just want to keep that in mind that you know this says it shall include this this it does actually you know when this mayor submits the budget it shall include the school department so it does it does it does have that specificity in it okay so that's excuse me as you know last night was another late night um
[Eunice Browne]: Okay, so yeah, so this is what it's saying is, you know, it basically needs to be numbers and a narrative. And that goes for everybody.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. And this says it shall be submitted by June 1st? Yeah. So, you know, it could be submitted earlier, but June 1st is the deadline.
[Eunice Browne]: I think the budget ordinance says May 31st.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, so it's one day different. Yeah. Are we okay? And I didn't put, Jean, go ahead.
[Jean Zotter]: No, I just have to I have to go. I'm so sorry.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, I'm sorry, Jean. So you'll be seeing this again with the whole committee. Okay.
[Jean Zotter]: Thanks for coming. The whole meeting. No worries. Thanks.
[Milva McDonald]: Take care.
[Jean Zotter]: Good to see you, Maury. Bye.
[Milva McDonald]: We're still all okay with the 30 days. Should I put this in yellow too? Since it's... No, it's in 30 days before the beginning of the... If we're putting all the timelines in yellow to sort of highlight them to the whole committee? Yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: The whole committee, sure.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, so I'll just... Okay, and then do we get, basically, this was another, you know, I feel like we could take this out of yellow because, well, you know, we did talk to Nina and the CFO about this a little bit, right?
[Maury Carroll]: And they said- Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Maury, go ahead. No, they were just saying how they know what's in there and they were, when Nina said we went through the publications, they were advised basically to go through the Boston Heralds.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. That counts as a local news publication.
[Eunice Browne]: And that's the reason, as I was looking through this today, that's the reason I called the city clerk today.
[Milva McDonald]: Because, Eunice? Did Eunice just get cut off?
[Maury Carroll]: Odysseus. Eunice, we missed you. Go ahead.
[Eunice Browne]: What?
[Milva McDonald]: We stopped hearing you after you said, that's the reason I went to the city clerk today.
[Eunice Browne]: Oh, OK. Yeah, so he publicizes things in what's called the Medford Transcript slash Somerville Journal.
[Unidentified]: Right.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. And it's those little classified ads. Occasionally, he will use the Globe or the Herald, which is significantly more expensive, he told me. Yeah, that makes sense. If there's a time crunch or something like that. But I said to him, what do other communities do? Who is this a requirement from? He couldn't really, there was no clarity on, you know, is this, you know, it's not coming from the charter or we would know that, but it's not, he didn't know if it was coming from state law as well. Gotta be state law.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, if they're doing it because they have to, it's gotta be state law, because it's not in our current charter.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, and I just said, you know, I mean, with the fact that, most local publications have gone the way of the dinosaur, they're left with the Globe and the Herald. But there doesn't seem to be anything coming from up above to get rid of this, because newspapers are vanishing.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. But at least we know that it's not a problem. They can deal with this one way or another. So that's good anyway. Maury, on this section, I wrote, we still have questions on this. Can you say what you understood about this when we talked about Nina?
[Maury Carroll]: It's kind of ambiguous because the 45 days goes to like June 1st through July 15th. You have the fiscal year, you're already five days. This is what I heard, Melba. I don't know what you did. And we're 15 days into the next, fiscal year. So I mean, I'm confused by all this language.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, we were trying to, we were trying to, so if the deadline for submitting the budget, I mean, yeah, for submitting the budget is June 1st, then 45 days later would be July 15th, which is after the deadline, right, the deadline of June 30th. So Yeah, so we weren't really sure what to do about this. And this number came from another charter, right?
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly. Yep.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. I want to, I actually want to kind of look back and see if all three of the charters had the same language, the same language. Yeah.
[Eunice Browne]: This is article what?
[Maury Carroll]: Article six. Well, what this is saying, or how I interpret it, if they have it until May 31st or June 1st to submit the budget, and then this goes back 45 days after the budget is in there, and the fiscal year starts on July 1st, There's a time frame. I'm not the smartest person in the world, but there's a time frame in there that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I know. That's wrong somewhere.
[Milva McDonald]: Melrose says 45. Oh, thank you, Eunice. You're looking.
[Maury Carroll]: Melrose says 45.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, they all do, I think.
[Eunice Browne]: Pittsburgh says 45. are friends in Weymouth.
[Maury Carroll]: They say 45 also. All three comparison charters that we've been kind of building eyes on and taking the good points and the bad points and learning things from them, I believe they all say 45 days.
[Eunice Browne]: Weymouth says 90.
[Maury Carroll]: Wow, well, that's even later.
[Eunice Browne]: That throws a wrench into things.
[Milva McDonald]: So, I feel like, you know, we're going to have to ask, I mean, there's got to be a reason that people are saying 45 is.
[Maury Carroll]: Exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: That's what they're saying. And we should maybe, maybe the Collins Center can help us understand that.
[Maury Carroll]: That might be a good question for them, though. Yeah. When they do it, they should be able to say,
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, the other thing that I don't understand about this language, though, it doesn't, it says adoption of the budget.
[Maury Carroll]: There have been years that the budget in this city has been adopted 15 minutes before the stroke of midnight for July 1st. That's what I don't understand. What if it didn't come down until June 28th that it gets adopted? Now you're into what, June? You'd be into August if the 45 days following the date the budget is filed with the city clerk in amending. So this is saying 45 days following the date the budget is filed. Well, but above it, adoption of the budget, the city council shall adopt the operating budget with or without amendments, not more than 45 days following the date the budget is filed. So to me, what that is saying is they can file, how do we leave it? 30 days before the end of the fiscal year, the mayor has to submit the budget to the city clerk and the council at the same time.
[Milva McDonald]: So if the mayor submits it on June 1st.
[Maury Carroll]: So you're July 15th.
[Milva McDonald]: here at July 15th, which is after June 30th.
[Maury Carroll]: Right, exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. So what I'm wondering is whether this is, I mean, you know, there's, if the city council doesn't vote on the budget or doesn't accept the budget and they can't agree on the budget, then they go into that 112, is that what it is, 112 budget? Yeah, 112, it almost happened a few years ago. And I don't remember what state law says about how many days that it has to be before the mayor's budget is automatically adopted, right? But I'm just wondering if this is about that and if this changes the window of time that there can be a 1 to 12 budget.
[Maury Carroll]: Well, I think you might be exactly right, because as I pointed out the other day, that I always thought that if the budget wasn't adopted within two weeks or 15 days of the start of the next fiscal year, then the budget submitted was the one that would have to be accepted, which I call that 45-day rule.
[Milva McDonald]: But I don't know what, I can't remember, I think it might be longer than 45 days in state law. I think it might be more like nine.
[Maury Carroll]: I don't know, I don't have any idea.
[Milva McDonald]: And what, yeah, so I'm just wondering if that's what this is about and if this actually shortens the window for that. So, I mean, that's the only thing I can think of, but we'll ask that.
[Unidentified]: It might be right, yeah, exactly, it's a good question, yep.
[Milva McDonald]: And if that is right, Does that mean that this is desirable because because it would be less time for the 1-12 budget. The 1-12 budget is not a good thing for the city.
[Maury Carroll]: Not at all.
[Milva McDonald]: No, definitely not.
[Maury Carroll]: I'd like to hear what the call and center has to say on this. Yeah. They're going to obviously have a reason that this is here and why it's been adopted in this way. Right, exactly.
[Milva McDonald]: I'm going to ask them about section 6-4. I mean, they're coming to our meeting tomorrow and our following meeting in April. So if we're productive enough tomorrow, we'll be talking about this at our full committee meeting in April. I'm hoping we get there. Section 6-4, the adoption of budget. Okay. So I guess what we'll just do is leave it there for now in yellow. Does that sound right?
[Maury Carroll]: It does to me.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Okay. More clarity. And then this stuff we didn't, this is just a posting required availability of the operating budget. There was nothing really. The capital improvement program, I remember our question was, does every year make, you know, Does every year make sense? Because some cities had every year and some had every three years. I think we may have looked at one that had five years.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, had five years. After our conversation yesterday, I think it's clear after the input of how much time goes into it that every year is unreasonable. Five years is unreasonable. It's too far down the road. That window of three years seem to be for the people in the know that do this, that's a reasonable time period.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Eunice Browne]: Do you agree, Eunice? Yeah, I think so. I think that that makes sense because I think every year is definitely too much to be tied up in. Capital stuff is big stuff. It's not the day-to-day. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: They said it's a lot of work to put it together.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, and I know that there was some, you know, contentiousness when they went through this budget ordinance about, you know, the different pieces that. You know, the finance staff was going to be responsible for and and what the city council was. looking for, and I think that Nina and the finance director were pretty clear that some of this was going to be pretty hard for them to, especially under the circumstances that they have at the moment with the staffing and software and things like that. So I think three years is the right sweet spot. Awesome.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, so the rest there was not much, but you had a question on the independent audit units, right?
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. I, I heard Zach mentioned something about the audit last night on the council meeting. I don't know if you heard it.
[Milva McDonald]: I didn't stay for the whole thing.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay. I don't and I don't remember. Which of the 6 and at what point in the 6 and a half hour meeting. You know, this occurred, but he mentioned something about the audit and I went looking for it today and it is online. Finance page, and it seemed to me that the audit comes under the auspices of the finance office, which is logical, which comes under the auspices of the mayor, whereas this talks about city council shall provide an outside audit, and the city council, you know, The report of the audit, you know, shall be filed in final form with the city council. The city council shall conduct a competitive procurement process. So, you know, my question, as I said, is, you know, should the audit be, you know, originating from and under the auspices of the city council or under, you know, the auspices of the mayor, which is what it seems to be like right now, so I'm a little bit confused.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, I don't know who does the audit now.
[Maury Carroll]: Well, there hasn't been one done for years because of the mayor's office for years upon years. I like the idea of the city council having control of two things, the city clerk and the audit, you know? And the reason being is, okay, the mayor's They're in too much working with all these departments. I'd rather have the city council, as an independent, bringing in an auditor for all the in-house stuff, instead of the mayor, who has control of all the in-house stuff, not pointing any fingers at any mayor at all, just to keep it on the up and up. That's been my philosophy for years.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, I mean, there definitely has an audit has been done every year. I'm sure of that.
[Maury Carroll]: It's been an in-house audit.
[Milva McDonald]: I thought there was an outside audit done every year.
[Maury Carroll]: No, I don't think it's been done in years.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, anyway, so Maury, I agree with Maury. I think that, I think it's, this is something that city council, that, you know, could be under the purview of the city council. And we also have a line in here that says, at least every three years, the city council should conduct a competitive procurement process to retain these auditing services, which I think, could potentially prevent them from just automatically using the same firm every year. It doesn't mean they can't use the same firm, but they're gonna have to sort of analyze that.
[Maury Carroll]: They're gonna have to put it out to bid. Basically.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. Which, you know, which I think is it makes sense.
[Eunice Browne]: I think having things under the city council, you know, it talks a bit about that balance of power that Jean was talking about earlier and it provides, you know, some checks and balances and, you know, like Maury says, not to point fingers, um, you know, or pass dispersions on anybody. But I think always having a fresh set of eyes where the money is concerned, um, is never a bad thing.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, definitely.
[Maury Carroll]: I agree.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, so I think that this is in pretty good shape and I feel like, you know, we do have that. Is it okay if I resolve this comment, Eunice? Do you feel like we resolved it?
[Maury Carroll]: Say yes.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Okay. Yes, boss. We still have that one, we're leaving 45 days in, but we still, we just have that one question, which we're going to get answered just to find out if maybe we're understanding it correctly. And I'll send out, we can resolve this, I think. I'll send out minutes and then we'll bring the budget amendment issue to the April 18th meeting. Yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: So thank you. I think we did a good job in this. There's a lot in this. There's been a lot of input, a lot of thought. And let the rest of the committee take a look at it and see how they feel. And we go from there.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, that's great.
[Maury Carroll]: You did a good job on this. Nice job, you guys.
[Milva McDonald]: Thanks, everybody. I want to see if there's any members of the public that want to share, have comments. want to speak on any of these issues? Okay. So, while we're ahead of schedule, but... I'll take it. So tomorrow night we are doing what? We're doing two and three? That's what's on the agenda. Articles two and three and seven. And the Collins Center is hopefully going to, they were putting together a memo and I don't know. Anyway, they're going to be there.
[Maury Carroll]: Do they have, Nova, do they already have all the stuff that we've worked on as committees? Are we doing it with our body first before they get their hands on it?
[Milva McDonald]: They don't have everything. They do have articles two and three, but I don't know how much, I don't know how much time they take. I mean, in the end, they're going to look at the document and some of it, maybe they'll even draft, we don't know yet. You know, so the sections we haven't looked at yet. But they'll look at it and they'll, you know, I mean, I feel like they're pretty helpful, even on the preamble, just little things like changing, you know, the state of Massachusetts to the Commonwealth, just little things like that, that, like making sure we use the right language and things like that.
[Eunice Browne]: So they'll help us with that. 2, 3, and 7 tomorrow. On the 18th, we'll do 4 and 8 and any cleanup that we have from 2, 3, and 7 left over. That's the whole. 2, 3, 4, and 6 is still hanging out there in midair.
[Maury Carroll]: Now, if we have time tomorrow, we can clean up the questions and have the whole committee move forward with it.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, no, this is six. What we haven't worked on is one, five, nine, and 10, right?
[Maury Carroll]: So we'll talk about that tomorrow and see how people- Let's put a committee together to see how much it entails and what we can, see if we can't bang out two or three of them all together or something like that.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, we'll see what kind of availability people have for any more subcommittees tomorrow.
[Maury Carroll]: Sounds good.
[Milva McDonald]: All right. Thank you. We're in good shape. All right. Take care. Someone move to adjourn?
[Maury Carroll]: I'll make a motion to adjourn.
[Milva McDonald]: Second. Great. All in favor?
[Maury Carroll]: We're all in favor, too, Nova.
[Milva McDonald]: Oh, wait. You know what? I feel bad because we made this motion, but we didn't accept the minutes, Maury, because Gene couldn't vote on them. I mean, she didn't want to make the motion because she missed the last meeting. So before we adjourn, can we look at the minutes from last?
[Maury Carroll]: Absolutely. Yeah. I had a chance to review them, go over them. I thought everything was in working order and everything we've done. So I'll make a motion to approve.
[Milva McDonald]: Second. All in favor?
[Unidentified]: Aye.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, great. So that means I can send them to the city and have them posted. Yes. Okay. Awesome. And we already made the motion to adjourn, so we're good on that. So I will see you all tomorrow.
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