Historical Commission: 21 Truro Avenue Carriage House ADU Proposal - 2026-06-18

AI-generated summary. Written by gemini-3-flash-preview from the transcript below, which is the record. It may be incomplete or wrong; it does not report votes. Every item links to the moment it began.

The Commission reviewed a design proposal for a new carriage house and accessory dwelling unit at 21 Truro Avenue and discussed plans for future educational sessions with historic preservation experts.

0:55 21 Truro Avenue Certificate of Appropriateness — The Commission reviewed a proposal for a new two-story carriage house and accessory dwelling unit but deferred a final decision until the applicant provides specific designs for the balcony, egress stairs, and window dimensions.
1:01:54 Correction of April Meeting Minutes — Approved the corrected minutes from April 9 to rectify a typographical error regarding Community Preservation Act funding for 132 High Street.
1:03:31 Approval of May Meeting Minutes — Approved the May meeting minutes with a correction to the spelling of a commission member's name.
1:09:47 Administrative Update and Educational Planning — The Commission discussed organizing public educational sessions during the winter months featuring experts on historic windows, masonry, and millwork.
1:22:12 Commission Vacancies — Staff announced current vacancies on the board and encouraged volunteers to apply through the mayor's office.

[Theresa Dupont]: 6 o'clock. I think we have everybody. We're going to have. And if at any point, if not, the folks that are online, if you can let us know if the music does become a problem, feel free to interrupt and then jump in. I think we're good. I'm going to go ahead and hit record.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: All right, how you doing everybody? So we'll start in the June 18th meeting for the Historic District Commission. Tonight's agenda is the certificate of, is reviewing the certificate of appropriateness of 21 truro ev, correcting the meeting minutes from April, doing the meeting minutes for May, an administrative update, and the adjournment. We have with us Julius, and he's going to be presenting the property 21 Furrow M. I don't know what to say in front of you. I'm sorry, what was that? Did they hear me?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to keep trying to... She was just... Okay. All right. How are you doing? Good.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Do you mind doing a presentation for your project? Actually, I think Teresa's got it up there. I guess I'm just going to give the overview. All right, so we're going to work with architects and folks that will come up with something more formal than I had the last time, which is my rough draft. But basically, we'd like to build an oversized two-bar garage footprint garage house with an ADU on top. That's what's shown there in that first mock-up.

a render based on the actual layout done using the magic of generative AI to layer on the look and feel of the property. So overall, the property itself is around 16,000 square feet for the lot itself. The house is 30 by 40 and the carriage house here Looking at it here, it's about 32 feet wide and 36 feet deep. It's a smaller footprint than the house. It's actually in a place, there's some later pictures where it was a carriage house roughly in that location. We don't know the exact size of it because it went down before we bought the property. But that's a general overview of the project there. Then we can go into the overhead layout view where you can see the dimensions of existing house and where um the proposed carriage house is that's the existing driveway roughly where it is right now anyway going up to where the house will be um the the setback of the carriage house is a couple things that are i'd say it would be in flux based on interactions with uh fire safety and code in terms of um not setbacks from the property lines we know what those are those are actually pretty tight we're quite a good setback from the the side yard and in terms of the side yard and up in the back but more so Uh, there's fire safety regulations about if you're more than 50 feet from the road, you need to have sprinklers and things like that. So it says 50 feet and 4 inches. We might bring it forward a couple of feet to stay within that. So I think I'm going to sort of highlight things that I would. sort of be flexible once we actually build it, but definitely want people to be aware of what we're thinking there. But I still have to talk to the fire safety folks about that. And then also in those discussions recently with the building folks and safety, the requirement for two means of egress, because the ADU is on the second floor, I'll get into the stairwell that exists, is that The only practical place to put that second means of egress is what I put there in the red box. And we're thinking, adding a spiral staircase or something like that, modest footprint balcony, just because we need it for safety requirements. Putting in a means of egress there that aren't in the drawings more formally than rough box, but I'll show you an example staircase that we're thinking. You wouldn't see that from the road or I think from any practical look angle unless we put it on the side. I don't think you can see that from the main right away anyway, but, you know, definitely want to talk through that considerations there. So, yeah, so that's kind of the overview also adding some dormers to just get some more light into it. The existing house now has dormers on it that you saw in that 1st picture as well. So that's kind of the overview. Do you want me to just go all the way through and ask questions as you go, or do you want me to do the same questions until the end, or how do you intend this? I don't know. I like, I don't like to distract someone with antipyretics. Okay, sure. Just go through the whole thing. Okay, so here we go. So this is just showing relative size. You know, the carriage house is going to be shorter than the existing structure, which is already on like an elevated kind of dirt berm, and then the carriage house is going to be lower, so that just shows you kind of the relative Relative heights overall, um, and then I think the feedback we got some of the most notable feedback we got last time when I was here, the draft idea was including for examples of the trend. So, this, this starts to show you the, you know, the trim on the carriage house matching. You know, with the right sort of thicker kids on the revival style, they know chunkier trim around the sales on the windows carriage house, locate garage door, things like that to continue on. This is a view showing both sides. We have basically top left is.

The east elevation is north-northeast, but basically, front and back, there's only the garage doors. On the front, there's no doors on the back yet, except for, I have one, Chad might be able to see, but probably be looking at about me there with the door probably, but that's on the backside. Then we've got the two dormers on both sides. One dormer is to enable the staircase coming up. That's the four-light one there, four-window there. You'll see that shortly in the overhead. And then the other one is just to provide more light into the bedrooms, but smaller dormer. And then a side access door on the main garage floor. Yeah, the one you're circling there, that would be to get up to the ADU, a totally separated staircase, so you can't get into the garage through that door. That only takes you upstairs. And then on the top left, you see that's to get into the garage.

So yeah, you can also see the trim, so you included sort of the The similar four-inch lap sidings that the main house has and the rough trim sizes and the double stack trees and legs are pulled out there to be similar and important to us. Do you want to keep going? So this is just the interior. So the garage, bottom floor on the left, you can see the staircase going up, which is why we need that larger dormer to enable that because of the I think it's the roof is 12 by 12, so it's a 45-degree range, I think. So we need a lot of space to be able to support that stairwell without getting into the main part of the floor plan. Then there's the ADU layout on the top there. So we'd be needing to add a door on the top edge of the material transfer at the top, somewhere up there. We'd have to relay that out when we Not sure exactly what we do, but there will be a door facing out onto the balcony for that needs to be addressed. But that's roughly what the interior will look like. We're not exactly sure what the interior will end up looking like fully. But it's a full standalone apartment that we're trying to build there.

And I think the only other thing to say about the floor plan there is that still in working discussions with Scott and the building department about What makes up the 900 square foot allowed by right limit for an 80 you and the walls and occupancy versus sort of a occupiable versus habitable space. That's kind of an open question. So this footprint here is like 890 some square feet. But if, for instance, Scott comes back and they say all possible space within the roof line, even if there's a wall there, counts as the 900, then we might end up needing to just shrink the whole footprint of the whole garage. This is what we would like to be able to do, something approximating this, but I don't think anything on the exterior will change dramatically. It would just be the building gets a little smaller or we have to do something that meets what they think is defined as the limit of the 900 square feet.

Um, so that's that's that. Keep going down. That's just calling. I got, Hey, there's 91 square feet in that habitable space for me walls. And then, so here's some of the, um, that sheet information. So they're top left to see a picture of an existing, uh, window on the, on the main house now. So picking, you know, windows that are similar to that, those have all been replaced. There's not a single original window on the house, except for what I think flanks and is above our front door. Um, all of these are, A mixture, there's a variety of brands in the house. They're all plastic with fake six over six. So basically we'd be looking at emulate that, you know, with the trim and a sill. You can see the examples there and historic silver babies. I think it's an exact piece and, you know, using PVC to be able to fill that out and six over six windows, double army. So next, uh, similar designs to what the main house has in terms of a classic traditional door, but we'll use a steel door for security purposes on the garage probably, versus wood or something like that, or maybe fiberglass. Here's a few examples of garage doors that we find that fit the carriage house feel, but are still roll-ups versus true floor. We want that for the practical convenience. but have the look and feel of something that we, you know, fits the character style. All right, next one. And then, yeah, in terms of the trims of yours. You can see the picture of freeze boards on the main house there on the top right. And then that's what's been modeled in, as you see in the top left, into that kind of a layout. We use a similar sort of stacked freeze board, 10 over 6, kind of style, with what we can get in terms of modern materials. And then a smooth, foreign, trivial flat board, like a hardy board, or something like that. That's what we'd be looking to use there.

So yeah, so that's kind of it. Those, I think the other thing I sent over just has some more pictures used on the street. But the 1st, 1 is the most sort of realistic looking 1. if you want to look at those, because I, I grabbed 2 Google Street Views of what it looks like. If anyone wants to see what that. That looks like for the street. So there's the. As is, the open driveway, going for back, and that's where the white SUV is, is where the original carriage house was at some point amongst different versions of the buildings that have been there over the last 170 years. So then if you scroll down, you'll see my original drop-in stand-in mock-up.

Try to get the perspective right, which is always fun and tricky, and I can keep going down. That's the one with the sort of rendering, you know, Bangor with similar color. We put the match color in as much as we can. If you keep going down, this is just another, you know, the other one was less foliage. This is more foliage, but I don't have as pretty of a rendering as this because I don't know how to hide it behind the tree or anything like that. So I just plopped it in there.

So I have to go in there just for more pictures around all sides of the house as it stands now. More pictures from looking at where the driveway is and what will be there. What, the bird shed? It's there now. Some other part of the yard. And then here's the old picture of what was the carriage house there at least 30 plus, 40 years ago. I think that's it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Excellent. So we'll go around the virtual room here and get people's thoughts. We'll start with James.

[Peter Miller]: Yeah, I think the look of it is appropriate. I think that looks fine. Question I have for you is, how will that affect the existing trees?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: So the one that you can see there, One of the trees we've already been talking to, we've had a couple trees, big, big trees come down in our yard. On the other side, you can't see that one there right by the cursor. That's a massive one that we've already had in cable. And we've talked to a couple folks that are suggesting we're just looking at taking that down anyway over time, because some of those, they're cabled because we don't want them to collapse onto the house. And so that one there is likely to just need to come down to make space for the garage in terms of it's going to overlap with that footprint. That other one on the front left there, I think that one would stay.

We might have to maneuver the driveway around it. That's more of a healthier, stable tree. We like the shape from it, but definitely that one at the back is likely going to need to come down. But I think those are the major tree related considerations.

[Peter Miller]: Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that's it right now. If I have any other thing, I'll raise my hand.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: basically small footprint you know five by five landings sort of stuff spirals but yeah let's look at that yeah I can share if you want it what is it actually is it it won't be visible if it's not visible we don't need to okay it would be discussing straight at the back and so I don't think at either angle you're gonna really guys mind if I shut it down yeah it's it's it's very fun Yeah, so I think, you know, from a vantage point standpoint, I don't think you'd be able to see it from either angle. You've got the other house blocking looking back.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: And you're still waiting for approval on whether they're going to accept a spiral safe case as a second means of egress?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I think they definitely would count that as one. I was looking to see if we can get to the point where we can just have one critical mean of egress. The answer for that is Almost definitely not. That's not a good idea. So that's the challenge of the second floor. If it was a ground floor apartment, then you could just put a door out your way. So it's likely we're going to need something like that, like a modest footprint balcony, either a balcony that only supports, just you can get out the door and get down the staircase, or maybe a little bigger so someone could put a table and chairs in a stairwell. But again, yeah, you wouldn't see it from the main street. Is it viewable from the other street?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: That's a good question. We could bring up. You know what? Let's look at let's look at him and see it quite possible.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's no through between the houses and see the back there, but we have to drop the little yellow man under the on the Maple Street over there. There we go, that's what I want. Or. Yeah. Yeah, so if you go down the street that way, probably between these two or the other two is where you could maybe get off. I don't know if you're going to get the look. I know you'll look. It is. It's going to be a pretty far look. That looks like it's looking. I don't, yeah.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's actually, no, I don't think it is. I think that might be our mudroom. So the building would be, oh yeah, here's the big tree. So that would be somewhere here. And so you would have a balcony with a spiral coming up. So you know, very staring down effort. All right, so we probably should look at, if you don't mind pulling that picture, just some examples.

[Theresa Dupont]: I realize there wasn't a sharing screen, so I felt some way, this is kind of the, where this tree is that I'm hovering over, that'll be kind of the bird's eye, or the dead-on look of the balcony. So it is a bit viewable from the, you're standing in between these two houses. And I think I made you a photo, so you should be able to share, although I think I have to stop sharing, so you'll be able to pop in there.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: There we go. Talked to the same architect who's helped with the drawings, and they have, I think, something like this. I think they have this one at their house. It's a simple steel staircase. The challenge of doing anything other than that, this footprint grows, right? Either you're going to have a wooden staircase coming down and spreading over the full back or a good portion of it. So it's something approximating that, I think. Yeah, there's a better view.

And the balcony, if it's small enough, it would either be cantilevered, right? If it's tight enough, or if it wasn't, then we'd have to have just some posts running for that. It's up to the brand.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: You pull it with your floor choice and then you run in the other way. So you're probably going to end up having posts coming down. Probably posts, just for the weight. Yeah. Okay. James, did you have any comments on the, um, on the spiral staircase on the back?

[Peter Miller]: Actually, you asked the question as to whether or not they were going to accept that as a means of egress. When I say historically, I mean not 100 years ago, but as of the last few decades, I don't usually see that accepted, but they could make an exception for it since it's your second means. But I would check on that. And the other thing I was going to say is the porch. or if there was gonna be a little balcony or something like that. Again, just so you didn't have to kind of overdo that or overwhelm the back of this with it. Some of the other houses back there have small porches. Somebody might just be able to put a chair out there. Maybe it's screened in. Maybe that's where you put the pots with your herbs in it or something like that, because you're right off the kitchen. It wouldn't necessarily have to be anything big.

just in terms of scale. But yeah, that's the one thing I would definitely check with the building department and with the fire department to make sure they'll accept the staircase. Because I've had to build big wooden staircases and they just, they kind of take over.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I think it would either be something like that, you know, something trying to keep it tight. So the entire thing would be steel. So the balcony part is steel. I think you would have this, and then you would have a balcony sort of like mini, not a porch, but a little balcony landing. And then this would attach to one side of it, you know. Okay. So, and if they, if they, if the, you know, for fire safety egress reasons, that's not tenable or needs to be a slightly bigger one, you know, or something, um, then we wouldn't, might just need to go towards some sort of staircase on that. I don't know if there's suggestions on what you've seen there, but it's, uh, it might need to take up a good, it wouldn't take up, I don't think the full 32 foot width necessarily, but you might have to have the landing and drop down and circle back or.

balcony. I think we'd have to get graded, but it would be probably just a basic staircase. Yeah, trying to avoid that just because, you know, ice and having a tenant in there taking the staircase and slipping down or something like that.

[Roberta Cameron]: In terms of compatibility with the historic look of the, I prefer the wrought iron spiral staircase, or the wrought iron look of that steel. Yeah, yeah. The, if If you have to design a wooden staircase, I want to see what that looks like, because I feel like that's going to have more of a visual impact.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: We're going to need to see what the balcony is going to look like with the balustrade and all that. Okay. All right, Hasina, would you like to give your input on this?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: I had pretty similar comments like James. Yeah, if you could save the trees, that'd be great. And firstly, great presentation. I really like how you put in the AI and gotten the views for us. So it's very easy for us to visualize it. No other comments. I'm just a little hesitant to comment on the height because I know it's just a dropped in image and it's not like really the same location it's going to be. But is it going to be as tall as the house?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to be drawing some of the drawings there. I'm going to have to share that. It's harder to see and I agree it's the perspective one from the street is harder to see. The clock plans show actual heights, rough heights back ups, because the house itself is elevated a good chunk. You can see the drawing there. Yeah. You can see there's a three and a half feet difference there. So yeah, we're definitely, no matter what, going to have it be sort of subservient to the house from, you know, it's at least shorter. Is it exactly three and a half feet shorter? Is it something in that ballpark? Because, you know, the height of the lot, the lot isn't completely flat, right? It kind of slopes down, so we're going to have to move some earth and figure out exactly what the level of it, but the main house is elevated compared to where the driveway is.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is helpful. Sorry, I missed this. This is good. No more comments.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I guess practically, if you scroll up or down, showing the picture with the house actually, And so that the garage is basically, it's like a one and a half story, you know, for the AU, and you can see the main house as the main floor, second floor, and then we also have an attic and it's elevated. So the attic is fairly short, but it's definitely got two and a half stories versus one and a half for the garage.

[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, I'm hit and asked to unmute, so you should be getting a notification on your screen, Charlotte.

[Roberta Cameron]: OK. Yeah. A few comments. First, I really appreciate that in the rendering that you provided, unlike this image, you have imitated the details of the house. And that's definitely something that I'd like to see. I don't have architectural words. But the way that the rendering is, like the shape is articulated with ornamentation that resembles the house. And that's definitely something that I'd want to see. In the application, you were very vague about the materials of the windows, and I'd want to be very specific about the materials of the windows. I think that the windows that are existing in the house are not appropriate for a historic house.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: No, I mean, they were swapped out by Tufts when they owned it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I think that's all we've got. uh, some mentions of, I think some of them down there, you know, there's like a Anderson, I think 400 series, there was a Marvin in there. Basically we haven't settled. Cause then I'm just like, I think that's the other thing that'd be helpful here to be, you know, with this certificate is the flexibility and okay, it can be something like this, like this, it's either going to be fiberglass probably, um, or, you know, put up wood on the inside and fiberglass on the outside for durability. But, um, yeah, I think, I think in the writeup,

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I, that was a, I'm not going to take your time on that. Like I'll go right back to you, but I've had, that was a question I had to, I just wanted to say simulated divided light.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Um, because the ones who house, they look like, um, they look like grids between the glass with no, like, and I prefer to see, you know, it's something that everyone would have to discuss, but SDLs on that. And then with the manufacturer, uh, you know, we'd all discuss it, but I'm, I'm open to, you know, saying six over six STLs and, you know, whether it be Anderson or Peller. Yeah.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: If you go to the drone, all the PowerPoint, all the pictures. So like when we redid our kitchen, we moved in, we added things with STLs because they're in there, some nicer Marvin windows. So got put into there, just keep scrolling down. So you see the patio on the back, you know, I think, you know, there, right? So original's there on the left, but then door was, well, there was a door. And then there's basically, we added door, you know, we added two windows and they were nicer Marvins with STLs and higher quality. So it would be something like that. But yeah.

[Roberta Cameron]: And the other thing, I think I noticed that in the picture of the original carriage house, the windows had an odder, yeah, that's five.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: And we're going with wider, larger windows, I think too. Not for the egress, just for windows and higher raised up, but yeah. Good catch. Yeah, so we weren't looking to replicate it more of say there was a carriage house there and if you look at all the old block plans you see there was a different building there was like a the house went through an L and then maybe not a true L but a different building and then they built the carriage house so we don't have any idea what any of those were you know um so we're kind of making a newer take needs what we're trying to do, but add windows so there's more light. Because I think all that was up there previously was just storage, right? It was storage above a barn, basically.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Charlotte? Looks like we have a little bit of technical difficulty. It'll be fine. Just take a second.

[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, Charlotte, if you wanted to have any comments, should be able to unmute. If you want to give us a thumbs up, if you're good and you have no comments.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we'll just, all right, we'll keep going. So I just had a couple of things on the, in the description. So the way I understand this, you're still working through the design now with the building department of the square footage and what that's going to determine. So for the approval, we need to know whether there's two dormers or one dormer.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I think that, yeah, so I guess what I would say is probably the dormer, the dormers would stay as like having physically two dormers, but maybe the size of the building goes down to the worst case you can imagine goes to 30 by 30, right? So it's just exactly 900 square feet, which is the limit. When I talked to Mike in the building department, He wasn't sure how they would reach the total of the 900, like how it's calculated. And then I talked to Scott and it was some back and forth. So I don't have a clear answer on that. So I guess what I would say is I'd imagine that this is the upper end. And if they say we need to, it's everything to the edge of the roof line, right where the second floor is, then we'd probably just have to shrink the building a little bit. Okay. But that's kind of uncertain and I don't know how many back and forth we're going to have to do it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: No, I know. You've done excellent. This is very well done. Looks great to me. For the approval, it has to be this is what it is and then it's approved.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay. I thought there was more latitude and similar to the windows.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if we're shrinking it down, the proportions are going to change.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's different than the wind. Sure, sure. So I guess maybe a question I would ask would be, if they came back and said, oh, no, you do need to change the power getting to the 900, it's now going to be 1,100 on this ADU, so then we would change it. Is it possible to get approval for this. And then if it does change, um, and if the building department said, you know, no, the footprint is going to have to be smaller in the building, then I'd come back, but get an approval for kind of the design as is right.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: This is, this is the first for me with something brand new. Um, yeah.

[Theresa Dupont]: I think we could write up the, um, so essentially for you to have a building permit issued to you, there needs to be a letter from, from Joe. as the chairperson saying, we've lost this, go forth. I think we could put conditions in that letter that say, as to the design that was presented to us on June 18th, totaling 891 square feet, should that change, then you'd have to come back to us. So, because you've done all this work, you're here, if the design doesn't change. You could go. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I think that would be a helpful thing for me to understand, what's good about it, or are there any conditions that you want to say, OK, yeah, if we say the windows that have SDLs, that's good. If it's a fire escape, like this one in fire says that's good, then everything is basically good, good, good. But if this changes or this changes, then we're going to go back.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Because the rail elevation is viewable from the other street, we need to see the door. We need to see the platform. OK, so you'd want to see that anyway. Yeah, because if it's viewable from the street, It's in our jurisdiction, we have to, it has to be approved.

[Peter Miller]: I was going to say, considering the number of things, especially if the actual footprint and everything is going to change, does it make sense to just wait and see? And once you have approval on all the other things in terms of what size it's going to be, what the proportions have to change, do you need the door, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then we just take a look at it from there. I mean, I think there's been enough guidance as far as like stylistically what we would want it to look like. So anything else like the porch and things like that, I think that would, with one more round with us, I think that would be relatively quick, because we've seen it. We know what your intention is with it. We're trying to get more with that.

It might just be easier to do that rather than having a letter hanging out there that says, yeah, you can do it, but. I don't know. That's my thought on it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay. So I guess to summarize then the things that are sort of the footprint would be a big one. And then a visual of our design that updates and shows the porch.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And I think we can do a round. So what are you thinking for the porch? Like what are you thinking for railing systems?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I frankly, it just kind of came up recently enough that I guess would welcome input on what you've seen around, right? Because some of it won't be visible from the street, like the, I guess, porch. We got a fence there, but then everything above the fence will be visible, which will be some part of the support to the base of the porch, right? So don't quite know, right? And we can imagine making it quite low profile, right, to where even from the street, would we need to go to the lengths of having similar architectural or aesthetic features? It's the back of the house. Yeah.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Let's go around and get everyone's opinion with the understanding that it's the back of the house.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: James, what are your opinions on what you'd want to see to give direction on that?

[Peter Miller]: Well, I think there are some handrails and balustrades on the existing house. And I think if you at least had something that was similar to that, I mean, because it is something that's brand new, and honestly, some of the original fabric of the existing house has been changed, as you've mentioned, with windows and things like that. I mean, I don't know if it's going to be possible to say, OK, you've got to replicate something from 1850 or something on it. But I think something that would look similar to that, to the handrails and things that are on the house, just remember, I mean, you'll have to have guardrails around any sort of balcony, and then guardrail and handrail down whatever stairs you have, unless you've got a spiral staircase. And the spiral staircase, I'd be curious. I very rarely see, unless it's a real custom stair, someone really dropped some coin on doing it, I very rarely see ones that look historic, that are a modern stair. It's more like what you showed earlier. That's not to say they're not out there. But I think with something like that, if it was a simple stair, if it was just clean in that respect, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I don't think I'd walk back and say, why doesn't this look like, again, it's made out of cast iron or something like that. But that's kind of my thought, if you can match that. And I wouldn't go so far as to put the cable rail systems or something like that on there, although I like those very much. But I don't think that would be appropriate on this.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: What about the decking material? because this is a new build. People's opinion on composite decking for it. What are people's opinion on that, James?

[Peter Miller]: I don't have a problem with that. I've used that on some older buildings, on some historic buildings. I think as long as you kind of hide the ends of it with trim and things like that, no one's going to see it until they're standing on it. So I don't think that would be a problem. And I mean, let's face it, you do need something that's going to be durable. And I don't think it lends, I don't really think it takes anything away from the character we're going for. So I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have a problem with a composite deck, but if you can carry the same trim that you're using on the house, that'd be really good. And with the stairs, I agree with James. I've never seen a spiral being approved as a means of egress, but it's worth a try. If the spiral is not being approved as a means of egress, we would definitely want to take a look at what kind of stairs you would be going on.

And the material of the stairs, I think, is more important to me than, like, if you would like to go with spiral or the dog leg or whichever, if it's been visible, I would be more cautious about what material I'm using. I would definitely not go for vinyl, because that's going to kill the historic vibe, even though it's cheaper, I think. Other than that, I don't have many comments.

[Roberta Cameron]: I would want to see it be comparable to the level of detail that the other sides of the building have. Since it's a new build, I don't think there's a style that's more or less appropriate, but I would just want to see it also agree that it should have have materials that would be acceptable and be a style that's fitting to the rest of the design of the building.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So I agree. I'm in agreement with composite decking, if that's what you choose to do. Composite or wood, either would be fine. As for the railings, you know, And I'm pretty flexible on what that looks like.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I'm interested in seeing what you come up with. I think the best thing, I mean, would be most helpful for me if there's sort of things that you've seen improved. Like, for instance, our handrails and stuff on our existing porch. They were just done at some point and they're just white painted two by four, right? Yeah, I know that. And so, yeah, trying to figure out what's stylistically kind of a good balance, especially given that it's on the back, and you're looking past a house into the following yard, what would be a good balance there?

[Peter Miller]: It does make it difficult because, with modern code, especially what, you know, like the structural forces that like the guard rails have to accept a lateral force and things like that. It is hard because a lot of times you have to build something that's very chunky. Yeah. They're not attractive, you know, and again, I've, I've had to do it myself and it's, you know, I, I, I wish there were without spending a lot of money on, uh, things that are, uh, Again, almost like custom steel or something. If you're going with something like wood, you tend to have to really beef it up. And it doesn't look historic. I don't care how you trick it out with wet trim and stuff. It doesn't look great.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I mean, I guess if there are suggestions around that, because I mean, I guess what I would want to avoid is coming back and being like, That's a horrible suggestion, Julius. That's the worst thing we've ever seen, right? And so if there's, like, sort of, you know, guidelines around that, because if we're going to, yeah, have to have supports from the ground up to the balcony, right, either it's going to be a steel post or, you know, I don't know, 6x6 or 8x8 or something like that. And would we just paint that white okay? Because at a distance, it's going to be hard to pinpoint, right? With binoculars, you're going to be staring at it.

We've got similar sort of exact trim like the rest of the garage, maybe to try to add something that kind of match matches aesthetically. and then figure out what the railing is.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're also going to look at, I mean, it's the rear of the home. It's the rear of the structure. So this isn't like the focal point. And it's viewed between two houses over a shed and something else. So we're going to be very realistic and reasonable with it. I know Sita said that she doesn't want to see vinyl, but there is intact vinyl. It's historic. It's really nice looking. That might be something you might want to look at. I can't, you know, it's, it's going to be ever except that or not. Um, you know, that can, that can somewhat work with what James is saying. Like you'd come up with your six by six gear platform.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Um, so there's other manufacturers as well, but this is just the one that's on my tongue right now. So you'll want you to look at a mounting system. So it's a, it's these brackets that will bolt them to the deck to keep that when you get to the top, which is the part you're going to be looking at. So you're going to look at a six by six going up, and then it will step down in size so it'll look better.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: You could add a little something more for us to look at with that. Got it. All right, so I'm seeing sort of add the balcony and the materials and things that we're looking at there. I'll probably, depending on what fire,

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Firehouse. This particular company can be painted. So it's a PVC that can be painted to match the structure. It doesn't have that. It doesn't have that gloss look that stands out and says, hey, I'm plastic. Got it. Okay. And it's aluminum reinforced on the inside. That's what keeps that slender profile. It has an aluminum reinforcing on the through the top and bottom ramp. But we're not, by any means, specing in text, which is an example.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: So update the drawings to add the balcony, the supports for it, guardrails, handrails.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: staircase and then you'll be speaking with the building to see if they're actually going to be okay with the with the um the spiral spiral yeah so i think i depending on how that goes may have both options but try to get a clear answer on can that work for you know means of egress yeah on the yeah on the write-up um we'll get you know we'll we're going to say simulated divided light in the write up.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. And then on the plans, does it say the size of the windows? I think they should be in there.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So we're just going to put the window sizes in, because then that will determine what the spacing of the muttons would be. And then whatever brand it is, it would all be pretty relatively close. Yeah. And then we're going to get on the application. We'll have to know whether the drone is going to be on both sides or not. That's too open.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Oh, did I put that in there? Yeah. I think that's probably legacy and then we update the drone.

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay, because regardless of whether you go spiral or you were going to have that big door.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that one needs to be there. The other 1 is technically optional, but if you want more, that's more. In a cave.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay, if it helps with the building department, it seems like all of us like it there. Yeah, if that helps them to say, yes. Wait, for which part? For the two dormers.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: If that helps you out. I think it really comes down to, frankly, it's going to 900. What gets you to 900? Is it habitable, occupiable, full floor plan, roof outline?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: And then the transoms over the garage, it has to be that they're going to be there.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Oh, so yeah. Okay. So you want us to be clear? Yeah, go down to the garage, the door section. I think I put some examples, some, some with whatever, but they all have transoms somewhere.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the top 1 didn't have it. Okay. Because we're also looking at whether. there's options where you can do just all full doors and then put a transom above, right? So it's this actual window separate from the garage that doesn't move versus these roll up and over. So, all right, I'll sort of finalize that.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if we can finalize the choice on that. Do I? Because that's not like a, you know, that's not like a Marvin pellet, you know, where there's just a little difference. A little transom either or not. Yeah, just pick out which door you want. Does anyone have any on the doors? Does anyone have a strong dislike of any of those? I'll reshare so I would have the same thing again.

[Roberta Cameron]: I feel like every time I look at it, I have a different preference, right?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Some of these, it's kind of like find some options and some are $2,500 is over $7,000. And so as the project gets more and more finalized, I'm going to be leaning back towards the lower cost end as everything steps up.

[Roberta Cameron]: So if I understand that the horizontal lines across them is because the doors are panels.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: James, do you have a strong dislike feeling about any of those three?

[Peter Miller]: I don't dislike any of them necessarily. I suppose option A, and again, just kind of looking at these, option A is probably my least favorite, but I don't hate it. I do like option B, and I do like option C. I think if they're articulated the way they show in the pictures, they do have the look of two doors that open to the side rather than rolling up.

[Roberta Cameron]: If the two doors don't open to the side, then the handles in the middle one don't make any sense. They look like universal door handles, which are fitting to historic architecture, but the middle one. Those don't actually, if they're not upwards, I don't know why they look like that.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: But you have a preference for this type of a pull. I like all three. That one, the bottom one, it reminds me of every garage that I've seen in the neighborhood that just really fits in. If it had a petition, the middle panel, if it had one divider there, it would be like every garage door that you look at driving around. Do you have a strong dislike of any of those?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say I really like the option A and I'm not a huge fan of C. I'm sorry. But I feel like option C is kind of much modern compared to option A and B. I kind of feel option A suits well. Again, I don't know if it's out of price range. You guys have to check the prices.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: but I would lean towards A. So overall, how do you deal as a commission with the subjective sort of things here where there's notably different opinions? Is that just ends up taking it out of the vote? Take a vote. Okay. Shakes out of the vote, whether or not that aesthetic may, do you vote piece by piece or just for the whole project? After you work through it, basically as a committee kind of. It all depends upon how it's going. Okay. Okay.

[Roberta Cameron]: If I could add just a little bit more like specific feedback about the doors, um, the more I think, so just noticing the difference in the, in the windows, the, you know, it's got four over two there versus three over two versus just one, um, set of four windows and more. is probably better. Like, the middle one has better windows. Although the sixth window is also nice. But the handles, I don't like the handle at all, and the middle one just doesn't seem appropriate for...yeah. But those are all probably just accessories that can be, you know, like if you're choosing between these different features in a door, then Um, yeah, like I would lean toward, um, with like two, two rows of windows rather than one. And I'd lean toward older looking, um, handles.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so you would be able to pick one and then show it in the presentation with it. Okay. I think that was all I have.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: All right. So balcony, all the balcony details to include staircase type and how that's all going to look and the materials, SDL for the windows, try to narrow it down on a door. I'm trying to ride the balance, again, for a cost and sort of availability of, sure, maybe I'll make down to two and just say, and then if there is fundamental features that you all really like or dislike, I'll want to say, OK, none of this is allowed. There's no turning handles like this. But try to get that sorted. I guess what were window sizes? I think that was one thing that's on there. Yeah. Yeah. It's named the dimensions.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yep. Um, does that still keep that? Oh, you know, it's pick a stock size.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to let you egress through a window into a balcony?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. They're going to let you do that? They actually might, I would think, if you could go out there, and then you get a means. But I think if we had a balcony, I'd want a door to it anyway. Yeah.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Balcony door. Yeah, any other things that are missing? So yeah, so that's complete and sort of portable package. What else?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I didn't see anything else that I needed. Did anyone else see anything that they needed to see to make it a votable package? James?

[Theresa Dupont]: I might have a question and I'm not a member, but I'm just, it's just a question What is the heating and are you going to put like heat pumps up or anything like that?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, probably heat pumps, but imagine probably, probably out the back and below the fence line. You're going to run the, the, um, I'd probably run that line inside. That would be ideal. If everything gets run inside through some chase, then out the back and they're sitting in the back corner against the fence or something like that.

[Theresa Dupont]: So you really wouldn't see the mechanics unless we're in the back below the fence line. So is that the way? Okay. Just wanted to ask. Thank you.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: But I'll talk to the architect, the designer to say, is like, is that practical?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: It's practical. Just as this has nothing to do with, Like, I've done it twice in both times. I've had issues where someone puts a screw through a pipe and then spent the thousands to fix it. If it's inside and there's a noise there. Yeah. So put it on the side that can't be seen. If you're going to run the lines up, run it on the side that we're not looking at. OK.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any other questions? I guess in terms of coming back and sending an updated set, is it, you know, come back in a month or is there sort of, if I get ducks in a row, it's hard to imagine it's actually happening that quickly, but you don't vote except for when you meet, correct? So there's no like intervening, send an update. It has to be. July 9th is the next time. July 9th. Do you have public hearings?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I want to make sure it's not fifth because sometimes they get things wrong. Yeah, 14 days.

[Theresa Dupont]: Stupid holiday. There's no such thing as a stupid holiday, but it is destructive. There's two holidays within that time. So why is the 19th?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Well, there were working days, too. You're saying for calendar days.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: The 14 calendar. People didn't think even on holidays or a weekend. We're good. If I get it out first thing on Monday, which I can easily, we're good for the 9th.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Oh, so I guess that is a good question. What do they send? Are they send everything? Or are they send just a, hey, there's something being built, and if you care, you should show up.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: They have to be able to look on the, they have to be able to look at the full plans. That's correct. They have to be able to view it. So it has to be a complete package for them to view for 14 days.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: or do they just need to be able to be told that there's something happening at this neighborhood and you can show up in real time?

[Theresa Dupont]: And then find out there. It's always a good practice to be able to put it out earlier if you can, but we just have to notify folks that there is a meeting for them to come and learn at that point. Okay.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. So I would probably, I would be making it a target to try to show up at that date with everything wrapped up.

[Theresa Dupont]: Do you think you feel good about July 9th? I don't want to put too much pressure on you. I think so.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to think so, but I'm also trying to not just have her get pushed out another two months. And so I'm going to talk to FIRE and try to pin down Scott.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Because he was, I think Mike downstairs was referring to Scott on the 900 square feet. Sure. And Scott said, don't just bring your plan. It's pretty straightforward.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay. Okay. All right, because yeah, that was the other one, the finalizing the floor plan, because it affects anything about the size. So, okay, great. I appreciate it. Thanks, sir. Any other parting comments or?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: No, you did an excellent presentation. Thank you very much for having that so easy to review and very well prepared. We really appreciate that.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Our next panelist will be a breeze. Thank you. Awesome.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: All right, I'm going to stop sharing. All right, so on the meeting minutes that we approved, yeah, that's totally my fault, but I have a difficulty on my computer with the opening those attachments. Yeah, the attachments for whatever reason. So I didn't see the other side. There was a mistake on it. 9th? 11th?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So it was page 2, 132 High Street St. Joseph's School and Church. They did not receive CPA funds. And how I had it written, it was a typo that needed the PA that they would have. So we're just going to correct that. And I'm assuming everyone but me saw this page and That was the only question I had. Yeah.

[Theresa Dupont]: I'll still pull it up. So we're all looking at it here. So these are the corrected minutes. And so I highlighted that they were corrected and I highlighted the correction. Great.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So we should re-accept those minutes. Yep. So can we get a, can someone make a motion to re-accept the minutes with that correction?

[Theresa Dupont]: And then I'll vote for B. Let me give this a few minutes from that stage. I know, Teresa, you better. There we go. which I did the best that I could. That was very technically intense presentation we had for Mr. Goldstein, but I think I did a decent job at summarizing the really highlighted bullet points of what his thoughts are. I'll stand by. Scrolling too fast or too slow.

[Theresa Dupont]: It was in the packet. It did go in a bit late. For that, I apologize. I don't think I got it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it wasn't. I printed off this morning. When was it in there? It went in this afternoon. I'm so sorry. That's not a problem.

[Theresa Dupont]: Oh, brain, never mind. It will boot. We could always bump these out a bunch if folks want more time. I'm very worried about it. I'm going to slow read it just in case there's one thing.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Hey Teresa, I'm sorry I've never noticed this earlier, but ready is part of my first name. If it has to change, yeah, my last name is just one. One word. I can make that.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'm assuming that's it. That's it. If everyone's, if anyone, I'm done reading it, but I'm sure I'm probably the last one. So if anyone wants to make a motion to accept it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Sorry. You're first in it. And James, would you like to second that?

[Theresa Dupont]: I put down administrative updates as just a placeholder on agendas if there's anything that we want to talk about administratively. At this point, I don't really have anything. We had mentioned So I'm lying. I do have one thing. We had mentioned at our meeting last month about how useful it was to have Mr. Goldstein come in and give industry expertise. And we kind of mentioned that maybe we could try doing that going forward. I don't know if we want to have that as a discussion point at our next meeting, but I think that would be something really great for us to put some, you know, a timeline on, like maybe quarterly we can bring in somebody who's a preservation expert, an insurance person, a broker, whatever it is.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I've been thinking, that's excellent. So I was thinking if it's okay with everybody and we could probably do it towards the winter time when there's not a lot going on. Well, hopefully there is a lot going on, you never know. But we could reach out to some window manufacturers, like some simulated divided window manufacturers. to get their input on, you know, classic, um, windows. Um, yeah. And then I was thinking like in tax that railing company, um, I've done some projects in, uh, Melrose and had them fabricate front entries out of, out of the cellular PVC. It looks just like what gets painted and then it goes on. It's an absolutely amazing architectural details that they can, they can get in that. They take the blocks, they glue them together, and then they have a CNC machine. I'm not, it's beyond my level of carpentry, and it's fantastic what they can do, and they can duplicate moldings with it. It's great. We might want to maybe have some representative from them come in and speak with us. Textural millwork people? If anyone has it, like maybe we could have someone from Anderson McQuaid come in and speak with us about you know, proportioning trim, that might be something interesting.

[Roberta Cameron]: I'm definitely keen to learn about all this. Yeah. You know, we just had in the Community Preservation Committee last week, a request for a grant to replace failing wooden gutters. And I'd really like to learn about what materials are appropriate. This building will isn't in an LHD, so it's not going to come to this board. It won't have the expertise of the members of this board to review it. So it's on the CBC to know whether it meets the Secretary of Interior standards. So that's what motivates me to join this board so I can get that education and learn what's appropriate for situations like that.

[Peter Miller]: If there are specific materials or topics that you want to discuss, like say Windows, let me know. Like I said, there's a gentleman who I work with, he's one of my partners, who is, this is his bread and butter. Right now, and I don't mean to sound, however it's gonna sound, dropping names, but we are working on the old State House, and I believe the old South Beating House as well. So he's one of these guys where it's like, Yeah, if George Washington slept there, he actually could do that project, where I would not. So if there are specific topics, whether it's different types of molding, stone repair, you name it, I'm certain we could find either manufacturers who could come in and talk about it, or we could find contractors who could come in and talk about the process of how they do that kind of thing. And I can tell you with manufacturers, We have a lot of what are called lunch and learns, and they come in and they'll either talk about their product specifically, or they will talk about, at a pretty technical level, kind of a broad overview of it that is then AIA certified, because it isn't hawking their product. But it would be, like I said, stone repair, bricks, How do you repair a rubble foundation? What do you do with, you name it, they would be able to do that. So if you wanted to break it down like that, I could start to line some people up to come in and talk with us.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I think you froze. Yes. So you said you have someone, a specialist that you accompany that does window sizing in you know, like putting modern windows into older homes or restoring, like give a window presentation. Do you have someone that can do that?

[Peter Miller]: He certainly can. And I mean, not only putting modern windows in, but if somebody really wanted to go the distance and put a, you know, like a true mahogany, you know, with the weights and pulleys and stuff like that, we've designed that kind of stuff too.

[Roberta Cameron]: What I'd really like to learn is the whole gamut from repair the existing windows to anything that you might replace the existing windows up to replicating them with exactly what was originally there. and everything in between. I'd like to, I'd like to understand better what all of those options are so that I can better recommend which is the appropriate choice for, for the situations that we're presented with.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Hasina, would you be okay with, with someone coming in to give a presentation like that, like towards like December, January, February?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Great. So James, yeah, if you don't mind asking him if like January, February, March, sometime like that would, if he wouldn't mind, that would be fantastic.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'll reach out to some people as well. And then we can, you know, we can have a collection of people. And I think we should focus on like, you know, what we, look, how do I say it smilingly, like the, you know, windows, siding, masonry, just like what you were saying is fantastic. And then, you know, look at those different topics. And I think that will help us out going into the summer, the busy season.

[Roberta Cameron]: For each topic, what are the range of options that somebody is going to consider so that we can understand which of those options best meets the Secretary of Interior standards?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Great, yes, let's we'll we'll kind of work on that a little bit. Reaching out to some people and come together and then we can put something together for the winter. Would it be helpful?

[Peter Miller]: I was going to say with something like this. I know that the presentations that we usually get and and sometimes Scott will give. I mean, you're looking, you're looking at an hour. generally speaking, somewhere between 40 minutes and an hour. Is there any way to, whether it's a pre-recorded thing or whether if you want to do a live session where people can dial into it and listen to it or just us, is it something you would want to do in addition to the regular meeting? Because I wouldn't want to gum up our meetings where we might you know, we have business to take care of, but if it's like a training, is that something we would do as kind of a separate piece? I'm just thinking in terms of scheduling, how would that work? What do you think?

[Theresa Dupont]: I think we, I mean, we meet once a month. We could meet more often. We could still have our regular meeting and then just a random Thursday night or Wednesday night or whatever have that and is welcome in the entire public to it. So it's not necessarily a meeting. It's just more of an educational.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I think that's fair for a presenter because I don't, we don't, I've not that I know, but I mean, it sounds like budgets are not going to happen. So like this would be a free meeting. So we'd have to, you know, so we wouldn't want to bump them because you know, they're doing us a favor by presenting. So if we scheduled them for an off Thursday, like no, I, you know, the second Thursday, but like the third Thursday, you know, during the time, it's not like winter time is good for me. Cause I'm not crazy busy. And, you know, of course, you know, it's Cedar and James and whatever works for you guys when you're not busy and Roberta, when you're not busy.

[Roberta Cameron]: Um, Thursday is the one day that I am busy. We can, we can, we can figure it out.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Um, let let's work on, let's, let's work on getting some of these, people together, yeah. And then we can pick a days that work out.

[Theresa Dupont]: That sounds like we should keep it separate from the official commission meeting. I think so.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on that, Haseena? Do you think they should be separate from the regular meetings?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: It can be separate, but if we do not have anything to review on a Thursday, on a usual monthly Thursday, I think we can just overlap it so we're not like spending another Thursday on it. But if we really have applications, if we really need the one whole hour for exclusive meetings and reviewing applications, then our learning session can be on a different Thursday. But I would like to keep it consolidated if possible.

[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah. Okay, absolutely. We could always make it where it's not a requirement for the commission to attend. Um, so if you're busy on a Thursday, we would, yeah, we would want to, we'd want to watch it, but yeah. I think we would advertise it. Just wanted to clarify. We would advertise it in a way where it's not like a required necessarily meeting for us. It's more about, but yes, you're right. We see that we want to, we want to be there too.

Yeah. Excellent. Would it be helpful if I put out like a very, very light survey and it's not, it would be like three questions. Like, who are you? Roberta. What do you want to know? What would be helpful for you to expand your, your understanding of? Um, do you have somebody in mind so I could send out like a light survey so that way I'm gathering all of that in one spot. Um, it's just a thought to kind of organize the information. We'll get big on it.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let's all think about it. We could then do a survey next month. Yeah, if we come back and, you know, we find it's helpful. And should we invite the, should we, yeah, we have to invite, it's a public meeting, so everyone's invited. Yeah, I think that's beneficial to everyone in the historicist. They might be thinking about doing a chimney remodel or whatever and want to know what's involved with it, you know, talking to us. I mean, that's a fantastic thing to have.

[Roberta Cameron]: Yeah. Is there, Is there any chance of holding this extra meeting, learning session on a day that's not a Thursday?

[Theresa Dupont]: I've got no problem with that. Yeah. Okay. Maybe we can even try to hold it at the library and that way we can invite, you know, but yeah, it doesn't have to be on a Thursday.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay, great. I'll start reaching out to some of the people that I've been. All your connections.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Excellent. Um, so does anyone else have anything they want to discuss? So should we, if no one does, we can make a, someone can make a motion to end the meeting and vote on that.

[Theresa Dupont]: Real quick, I'll jump in. Um, we, uh, the mayor's office just put out a press release this morning, uh, calling for more volunteers to boards and commissions. So we currently have two vacancies on our board. Um, actually just one, then you'll get appointed. We'll have one. So just putting it out there. If you have any friends, anybody who's listening right now who wants to join our commission here, we're seeking another member. I just wanted to point that out. Now I'm done, I promise.

[Roberta Cameron]: Were you able to get advice on the gutter and the crown molding of the Osgoode house?

[Theresa Dupont]: We kind of came up with an idea together because she went back to, this is for a CPC thing, But yes, okay. So we found a solution that's fiberglass and all one piece.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm done, I promise. Does James, do you make a motion to end the meeting?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Seva? Yes. I vote yes as well. Have a great month everybody.