Historic District Commission 05/14/26

AI-generated summary. Written by gemini-3.8-flash from the transcript below, which is the record. It may be incomplete or wrong; it does not report votes. Every item links to the moment it began.

The Medford Historic District Commission heard an educational presentation on insurance considerations for historic properties, held preliminary discussions on renovation work at 20 Hillside Avenue and a proposed carriage house at 21 Touro Avenue, and approved past meeting minutes.

0:13 Presentation on Insurance Challenges for Historic Properties — Public adjuster Josh Goldstein gave a presentation detailing replacement costs, co-insurance penalties, and building code upgrades as they impact historic property claims.
31:55 Preliminary Discussion: Renovation Work at 20 Hillside Avenue — The commission reviewed completed and planned renovations at 20 Hillside Avenue, directing the applicants to provide door and window cut sheets and photos ahead of an abutter-notified June hearing.
46:37 Preliminary Discussion: Proposed Carriage House at 21 Touro Avenue — Julius Rose presented conceptual plans to build an accessory carriage house garage with an ADU at 21 Touro Avenue, receiving guidance from commissioners on required elevation drawings and material specifications for formal review.
1:18:56 Approval of Minutes: April 9, 2026 — Approved the meeting minutes from the April 9 meeting.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: There we go. Now everybody can hear us. Hi, everybody. This is the May 14th meeting of the Medford Historic District Commission. On tonight's agenda, we're going to hear a presentation from Josh Goldstein. He's a local insurance professional. He's a public adjuster. And he's going to talk to us about the challenges facing historic property owners in the case of a loss. We're going to vote on the meeting minutes from the April meeting, and we're going to hear a preliminary discussion about some renovation work being done at 20 Hillside Ave. Like I said, so Josh, we'd love to hear from you, but, you know, regarding if you, Don't mind if you could start with what a public adjuster is. And then some of the issues that you brought into with losses on historic, on homes in a historic district.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure, I'd be happy to. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for having me. My name's Josh Goldstein. I own Seltzer and Goldstein Public Adjusters. As public adjusters, we're licensed by the state to represent and work for policyholders. We work for you against the insurance company. So if you were to have a water, a fire, a windstorm claim, our job is to represent the policyholder to make sure that we maximize the policy and get you everything you're entitled to. So when you're looking at historic homes, the claim process gets a little more interesting and intriguing, and it's not always advantageous to the policyholder. And I'll give you a couple reasons why. Number one, the first thing that happens in your insurance policy is that if you have a claim, whether it be fire, water, wind, whatever the covered peril is, the insurance policy owes you to bring it back to pre-loss condition, okay? So they owe you for the exact way the house was before the fire occurred. So when you're looking at a structure, if you're looking at a slate roof, if you're looking at historic windows, historic paint colors, historic anything that would be on the historic side, When you go out to get insurance, if you don't properly, number one, let them know that you have a historic home, the per square foot value that the insurance company is going to set is going to be significantly low. So regular houses in today's fashion are getting priced by insurance companies around $308 a square foot.

So if you had a 3,000 square foot house, you're roughly around $900,000 the insurance company is going to give you for a base policy. When we look at slate, when we look at window trims, if we look at any type of historic features, we know those type of features are going to be incredibly more money. And at that point, you could be closer to $400 or $500 a square foot to actually rebuild that house. So the first obstacle we have to face is is that does the property carry enough insurance? So are we carrying enough number one that God forbid if we had a total loss or a partial loss, in this case, if it was 500 or four to 400 a foot to fix it, and I only had 900 and the claim was 1.21 point three, I would have been three or $400,000 underinsured. So that's my first obstacle.

My second obstacle is that a lot of these policies carry something called co-insurance. So I'm not sure if anybody's familiar with co-insurance, but I'll give you the basic explanation. And I would hope that no one is because it's very boring and you don't want to be. So when you insure a property, insurance companies, and this is gonna be the magic number that you're gonna see 95% of the times, they make you insure the property to 80% the value of what the replacement cost is, okay? So if your property, to make it brand new and fix it, was insured for a million dollars, you have to carry at least 800,000 worth of insurance.

If you carry $700,000 worth of insurance, they're going to penalize you and they're going to give you a penalty for every dollar of your claim. So even if you had a $300,000 claim, if you didn't carry enough insurance, you might only get 92% of their recovery. So they would take the $300,000, they would times it by the 92. Instead of getting a check for 300, you'd get a check for 275, 280, whatever that number is. Now, on historic houses, the numbers we were just looking at quickly, if you insured it for nine, but if they established the value was 1.5, in theory, you should have carried at least one, the replacement should have only been 1.1, and now it's 1.5. That's a 30% penalty. So not only do you not have enough money to rebuild the house, You also could potentially get penalized 30% of your $900,000, where you could lose $270,000 for not insuring the property enough because in the beginning, you didn't factor in the biggest parts of the policy of the replacement cost.

The third issue that comes up, and this is more on the business owner side, the commercial side. So when you have a home in Massachusetts, you have a homeowner, your homeowner's insurance, your HO3 policy, which 99.9% of people are gonna write, is gonna give you 10% of your limit for any type of code upgrade. So, code upgrade's gonna be anything that did not, was not there at the time of the loss, that has to be there above and beyond. So, our $900,000 house example, we have $900,000 on the property, and our insurance policy gives us an additional, on top, $90,000 worth of code upgrade coverage. It's called law and ordinance or increased cost of construction. Now, in a commercial policy, the policy itself, if you do not buy additional insurance, gives you $10,000 worth of code upgrade coverage. A business owner's policy, so if you own a building with a business that you own inside, that only comes with $5,000 worth of code upgrade.

So how does the code come up with historic houses? So, you know, obviously the framing in a lot of this historic houses need to be brought up to code because you might have two by six or two by eight dimensional lumber inside of the roof system. Your windows aren't gonna be to size because they haven't been expanded and you need to make them bigger. So the insurance company is gonna owe you for that original window within your $900,000 budget.

But now you have to make that window larger. It's going to be a specialty order item. You're going to have to make it so it could be potentially if the glass is at a lower elevation, if when it breaks it doesn't hurt any children, depending on the height of the window. You're going to be looking at the E on the energy side of what is the rating of the window. So when you look at insurance, you have to really be careful and say, I bought this beautiful house. God forbid something happened. I need to insure it and really give the bells and whistles to the policy where I need the right amount of coverage. I need enough code. So on these commercial or business owner policies, some companies will give you $100,000 worth of coverage. Some will give you $255,000 worth of coverage. Typically, you're not going to get more than $255,000. And again, you're not going to need more than $255,000 unless it was you're going to need a sprinkler, you're going to need an ADA compliant building with elevators or something like that. So that's really where the problem comes in. On the single-family house, yes, code will come up, but at least you get 10%. So if you are carrying $900, $800, $1 million worth of coverage, you would at least be getting $80,000 or $100,000 worth of coverage included. But the commercial policies, I see a lot of issues a lot of the time. So the policies also, now, one other thing, that is written in a lot of these new policies that, and this would be, I would say, the number one thing that people should be wary of. So the key word that we talked about in the beginning is that the insurance company owes you for pre-loss condition to what you had, right? We call that what is the replacement cost. In insurance words, what is the cost to replace my building to today's brand new structure? Insurance agents, a lot of the time without telling you, will introduce a word called functional replacement cost. What is functional replacement costs? So what the policy does, and you get a whopping $500 savings per year, but they don't tell you why you're saving 500, right? So functional means the insurance company is going to replace something to equivalent function, but it does not have to be identical. So Woodlaff plaster could be replaced with drywall.

Siding could be replaced with vinyl if it was clapboard or cedar. So from a historic point of view, that is a huge potential issue knowing that you're going to be required by your historic community in the zoning and where you live to bring it back to pre-loss condition, but your insurance company is going to be giving you an inferior product that functionally is the same, but is not going to be allowed by the city. So, you know, you want to make sure you never have a functional replacement cost. You always have true replacement costs.

The orders of the historical committee, which is interesting, is that every insurance company treats this a little different. So if I had a home that's had a severe fire and I'm trying to repair it with what I had, if the historical commission is mandating that I do something, does that fall under code? Or does that fall under the policy limit? So some companies will say, well, if you didn't have to do it, if you could go back with something else and you're mandated, that comes out of that code number. So the key is really to look at, OK, I know I have to go back with shutters. I know I need a selective paint color. I know I need these certain things. Did I give myself enough insurance? And then if I do have to expand my windows, if I do need a new roof structure, if I do have slate, or I had something that was an equivalent that's very expensive, am I carrying enough insurance in all the buckets of the policy?

So that was a lot. So I figured I'd open it up to a couple questions, see if anybody had any questions that I could help them with, and then I'll see if there's anything else I could try to go over.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have a couple questions. So the appraisal cost of the home, is there a way of getting a private appraisal? Who does that, that you can appraise a historic home to

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you could talk to some local contractors. I mean, if you put together a price, so normal houses, new construction are going to be $300 a foot. That's new construction builds. If you went with a number closer to four or 450, You're going to have enough insurance. I mean, that's going to carry you enough that you can get creative along the way. I would never recommend somebody getting six or seven hundred dollars a foot because you're going to be paying three times the amount of insurance.

There's also some extra things in the policy that you can do called guaranteed replacement cost. Guaranteed replacement cost gives you an additional either 25%, 50% or unlimited insurance above and beyond your actual policy limit. So if you do have a historic home, you could insure it for 900,000 or a million, but for three, four or $500, you could buy a guaranteed replacement cost or an additional 50%. So God forbid, my million dollars would increase to 1.5 million. That's a better way to do so. And a lot of those get rid of co-insurance.

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. So that 300 per square foot, that's just an industry standard. And the 450 per square foot, that's more of like a a professional recommendation?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, professional recommendation. I mean, 400 you could do to, um, you just want to carry more than the normal person. Cause you know, you're going to need more time. It's going to be more expensive.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So my understanding, so what am I understanding is that the complication for commercial properties on the code upgrade is that the commercial properties that if you have a tremendous loss and you're doing a tremendous rebuild the commercial property is going to have a lot more code upgrades that are necessary for ADA compliance and you know because it's a store it's a public place so they're going to have to meet all these other requirements and And from what I'm understanding is, unfortunately, the code upgrade budget in the insurance is less for a commercial property in a commercial policy than it is for a residential.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the standard that is included is significantly less. So you could carry a million dollars on a property, and if you don't advise your agent, if your agent's not good, the standard they're gonna give you could only be five or 10, where homeowners would come with 100,000.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the homeowners comes always with 10%. I mean, some carriers who are not Massachusetts carriers, like if you have a house in New Hampshire, and you buy another house here, very minimally, you'll see there's no 10%, but 97 to 98% will have 10% of the homeowners. Wow.

[Theresa Dupont]: And that code coverage at 5,000 in a commercial setting is if it's a home business?

[SPEAKER_04]: If it's a business or a commercial property, yep. So there's really three types of properties. There's a commercial property, which means you own a building and you do not occupy a business. There's a business owners where you could insure the building and your business inside. And then there's a homeowner.

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. We do have a question from a member of the public, but we should recognize any committee members who may have questions first.

[Lauretta James]: Hi, Teresa. Nice to hear you. Yeah. The speaker, I saw my chat was disabled. If you could put your contact information in the chat, that would be really helpful. I thought your presentation was excellent, and I work in real estate, and I'm also on the energy committee for the city. So I really, you did a great job explaining this, and I've just gone through, a huge project with my insurance company on replacement costs and asking them a million questions. So actually, I had a question about code, you know, the new energy code upgrades for being green.

when you have an older home and you don't have these upgrades and now they're required, do you have an estimate, a center and adjuster of what that costs? Because it's quite a bit of work. And I'm wondering if that 10% covers that. I mean, I'm really concerned because I have a somewhat historic home and I know all about the functional replacement that I'd have to buy extra coverage for my white oak plank floors and large windows, and I might not have enough actually. So they'll just rebuild to somewhat modern standards, but the code upgrades concern me.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it's tough to just throw out a number, like it's really the square footage, right? So, and you have to, the interesting part of the code too, is you have to remember that the code is only the upgrade of what did not exist. So if you had, let's just use an example. If you had bat insulation in 50% of the house, and let's say you had $12,000 worth of insulation, but to re-insulate your whole house would be $50,000, okay?

You have to subtract the 12 that was there, so the part of the code would only be that 38,000. So, we have to know what you actually have at the time of the loss, because you have to quantify what was there, and then you subtract that from the total. The difference would be the code amount for every trade. So, electrical, plumbing, everything going forward. Now, reconfiguring space is a huge part of this as well, because in the insurance, well, in the state building code, there's in CMR 780, in Appendix J, There is a repair and then there becomes a level 1, level 2, level 3 alteration. If you're not reconfiguring space, the repair part will allow you to go back sometimes not to stretch because you're not going through that level 1, level 2, level 3. So these are certain things to be aware of and look at because you could be adding a bedroom, which is now triggering a code change, which the inspector is going to make you do additional items when on a normal case, if you had a fire and you're going back with exactly what you have, you wouldn't have to go to that level of repair because Appendix J states that other than public safety or life safety, you don't have to upgrade some of those items.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the unfortunate part about doing 450 claims a year is that I deal with insurance companies who hire all of these engineers who bore me all the time. But insurance companies look to save money. So I have to meet these engineers all the time. And then they'll explain to me where it says in the code what to do. And then there has to be a back and forth. The key is, and to answer your question, is that if you took the installation cost of your whole house and subtracted what you have there currently, that's going to give you an idea per trade of if you add all those up what you should carry in code.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. I mean, so I mean, how many like I could help you, but if you on a rough just to help you itself on a rough if your house was around four thousand, three thousand square feet. typically carrying, you know, $100,000 or $75,000 worth of code should be enough money because the existing claim is going to pay for the lock because they're only owing you the difference. The difference is the most important part. If your insurance company just said, oh, all your installation goes under code, you'd exhaust the policy limit and you wouldn't get anything. You really have to know what was there inside. Like the electrical

[SPEAKER_04]: Electrical has to be brought up to code, but you had fully working electrical, so they owe you for everything there. But if you're adding a light fixture, adding a smoke detector, adding a GFI, we're only adding those seven items to the existing things we have. So we have an ice cream sundae. We're only putting a little whipped cream and cherry on the top. They still owe us for the ice cream sundae. Oh, great answer. Yeah, it's how you manipulate the policy because the insurance companies obviously want to put it all on the thing and be like, oh, you have $100,000 worth of coverage and $200,000 of code, so we're not going to pay you. Right. The key is to have a professional make sure that everything gets done correctly.

[Lauretta James]: Right. And I've seen actually someone in Medford that lost their whole house and went through a hack. with, you know, he had to have an adjuster come in and help him and it took forever. But it's a whole different, had to go and complete rebuild. So it was quite a stressful project for that person, a colleague of mine. So thank you. Yeah, it's my pleasure. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So I just had two other questions. One, in any of the, just so we know going forward, if we have a house, God forbid, that has a loss, have you been involved with any meetings, any historic district meetings where, you know, they were trying to put something back and negotiate anything? And do you have any advice? you know, that you've seen the town handle it very well and that we could learn something from?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, so I get involved with a lot of them. I think like what you're doing now is the best thing because you can't change the limits of insurance after a loss, right? Everybody says, I wish I had more insurance. So number one, correctly giving yourself enough insurance is the biggest part. Number two is looking at your house and understanding, God forbid, if there was a situation, what would I be forced to do? What is optional? Because optional is not required. It's only what is 100% required. And that is the code. If it's optional, you don't have to do it, then you don't have to insure for it. So and the other thing is like a lot of insurance companies are going away from insuring historic homes, due to the fact that they know, like we just talked about, the price per square foot could be an extra $150 a foot. So they're saying in their mind, why would we insure a risk that we know is going to be expensive? So, you know, that's the one thing just to be careful of is if someone's giving you a price and it's a very cheap insurance price, just make sure you don't have those words in it.

As to answer your question fully, the best thing that you guys can do post loss is really document and give them a letter and really explain what is required by the commission because- That's a great idea. is the policy states. So you have it's increased cost of it's increased cost of construction, and it's it's law and ordinance. So what is the ordinance by the city mandating this happen? If you spell it out with simple, then it's going to become either code or it's going to become that part of the policy.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: That's a great idea. That's great. And then my second question, you were leading into it. I'd like to, because we've heard a lot from other historic districts, commissions about insurance companies dropping coverage and making the coverage hard. So we would like to speak to like a salesman for the insurance company themselves. You know, I don't know if I'm using the right word for it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I work with an insurance agent who specializes in historic homes and he'd be happy to come in and explain what he's seeing to you and give you some carriers that will give you competitive pricing.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. That, that, and like, um, what we could do to make it better for the, um, Like, if we could send him, like, you know, our paperwork of, like, what we're doing, and if he could, if you give us his contact information, it'd be great. And we'll give him our information, and if he could, like, look through that and see, like, oh, if you had this or this, you know, we could provide insurance for the people in Medford better, or, you know, this is something successful that another town's doing. We're very interested in speaking with him about that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think creating a manual to give to people when they buy a house to be like, if you have a normal insurance agent, if you go with this insurance, whoever you go with, make sure you have A, B, and C. And then D, E, and F on preventive measures will potentially get down the premium costs and make your house more incentive to insure, knowing that this has happened. So yeah, I think that's a great idea.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: Excellent. Yes, if I may. Say, in a historic home, You have an unreplaceable feature like maybe a floor to ceiling, mahogany mantle, 150-year-old wood, hand carves. How would you go about ensuring that? Obviously, it's irreplaceable.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you would do the best possible to think about like if I went to Anderson McQuaid, if I went to this lumber yard, if I got the mahogany again, if I had to hire someone today at today's labor and today's material, what would that price be? You would think about it in that capacity. On a global scale, if you have like the rosettes, the custom trim, if you have a lot of the custom features in the home that aren't going to be in other places, the simpler way to do would just be to add an extra $25 or $50 per square foot to the total value of your house, because then you know, you're going to be encompassing that true professional feel. It's very labor intensive to try to bid every item. So I think aggregately, you could just add $1 amount to help but they would owe you for a replacement cost, like kind and quality of today's standards.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: Right, that would be pretty hard to do in some cases. Would an idea be if you almost insured, say it was a mantle just for one thing, insured almost like jewelry off to the side and trying to get a number on it that it's really worth, because no matter what, You do, you can't really replace it and say you sold your house later, it's gonna be worth less without this feature that, you know, is a huge problem.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's really an interesting question. So unfortunately, you cannot schedule any part of your house. It's just gonna be a global limit. The key would be to put like a guaranteed replacement cost on it, because some guaranteed replacement costs are actually no limit. So like I just did a fire in Hingham, very, very beautiful house that burnt out of the ground. It was not historic, but it was a house that they had 2.7 worth of insurance, 2.7 million. I settled it for 5.5 million. Like it was true replacement costs. It was a beautiful house, coffered ceilings, pillars everywhere. That was the cost to rebuild it. So that's what the insurance company paid us. So the best thing you could do is no that you got paid for and then you could either rebuild it or you could sell it as is and think about something in that capacity. But the insuring value of the whole has to be a whole you can't you can't insure it individually.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: So would you recommend then with features like that in a historic home that you document them and take photographs and

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I think taking just going around the house once a year taking pictures of personal property just in you want to take far away pictures. So you go into a room, you take a picture of each room, you save them, God forbid something happens, but special details like that, then you would take 567 pictures and document it because the best thing about a phone is they're backed up everywhere. And God forbid something happens. You have the evidence to show the insurance company.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Well, that was excellent. I thank you very much for coming and presenting that to us. This was great. And I'll reach out to you later on, maybe this evening or something, if you could give me the contact information of that other insurance person so we can talk to them about the carriers that they have and potentially they might want to come in and present and see if we can go from there with it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sounds excellent. Is there one hand being raised before I sign off?

[Roberta Cameron]: Hi, my apologies for just joining, but I took a while thinking about this question, and I think it's worth raising. So the local historic district regulations apply to the exterior of the house and not to all of the interior. Does the insurance policy make a distinction between which parts of the house are protected and which parts are not protected under the city's regulations?

[SPEAKER_04]: They're not, there's just one limit for the whole structure itself, but that's a great thing for people to be educated on, because if they set their code budget, they should be knowing they should only set it for the exterior and not be setting it for the interior. Thank you. Yep, it's my pleasure.

[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome, perfect. Well, thank I want to thank everybody again for the opportunity. It was great to meet everyone. If anyone has any questions at all, I could put my email address on there and I'm happy to answer any any follow up questions.

[Theresa Dupont]: Well, that was helpful. Yeah, it was. I almost wonder if you do just like a little mini series, not every meeting, but maybe every other meeting where we bring in some sort of historic preservation expert to help just educate homeowners of historic properties. That was really helpful.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So we'll. we'll postpone but let's put the meeting minutes to like the end and uh we'll get sure bring you guys up next up so if you don't mind introducing your name your address and then what you guys are proposing to do yeah at 20 hillside yeah um and actually before you do that roberta how how you uh how were you able to hear um mr mcdonough whenever he spoke because he's in the gallery right now did he come through pretty clear yeah

[Theresa Dupont]: I just want to make sure that they can hear us. The microphone's like all the way up here, so. But yeah, sorry. Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm Laura McSweeney, and I'm with 35 Hillside Out, and we recently purchased 20 Hillside Out.

[Theresa Dupont]: And just to explain why they're here, there was some, they had pulled a permit, and some work was done that would be under the purview of this commission. So we invited them to come and speak on the project a little bit, um, explain what has been done so far and what you're intending to do, um, additionally. And I know we, you and I had a conversation, but for the, for the commission's benefit, if you can elaborate a little bit more on the work that has been done and any future planned work there.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: Um, Well, we bought the house originally. We planned on using fixing it up. in using it as a rental. It's on our street. But the amount of work the house needed on the inside was a little more than we had planned. So now we're going to sell it, you know. So, I mean, we love old houses and, you know, we've lived at 35 Hillside. I'm sure you're familiar with that since the 80s. we've been there quite a while and um so we've always loved this house driving by so we're just trying to trying to bring it back we're doing more than i originally planned you know obviously for a rental and for sale so what what you noticed was that um and like we replaced the windows um the the the windows that were there were just um falling apart, and we tried to do some work on them. So what we did with the windows was we got new modern windows with the true divided white, so with the wood for sashes, so they work. And we mimic, if you look at the pictures of the original and look at the windows now, the sashes are the same. So we kind of went a little over budget doing that, but we thought it was important. And a lot of the top features of the exterior of the house, there was a lot of rot up there, which we've replaced and we've replaced it the best we could with what it looked like before.

[Theresa Dupont]: And... Yeah, and I can attest to that. What I am pulling up is, since this had been recently for sale, there's a nice little real estate listing that we can reference to and we'll I should have grabbed some pictures while I was there the other day, but I can certainly grab those for this. It's a great house. It's got super bones. This would be a good example of the windows to look at. So this has a storm window over it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: So I can, again, attest that the windows that have the new windows that are in are- I know how, because our house still has the original windows. We can't afford, the sashes are crazy to try. But I also feel, and I know, I'm not trying to change the rules, but as far as windows, and I know you, you know, you kind of have a problem on them being replaced. But that bit of a storm, too, I think, brings the house back to what it was and what it should look like, rather than have an aluminum storm window on the house.

And the only other exterior feature we needed to, we didn't need to, we were adding a door on the right side of the house where that back window was. On the side, right there, yeah. Right there. And you know, we don't have to have it. If it's a problem, we can fix it. move the door out, you know. We're looking now a little belated. We're not trying to do anything. We had to modernize the house to a degree inside. Everything is left pretty much everything, and we wanted to keep the pantries that were in the kitchen. So, and then to create a new kitchen that left us very little elbow room to do that. And I think we've really done a beautiful job so far. So I'm finished.

[SPEAKER_05]: The pantries are just, I know you guys, you all probably live in the X area, but we lived in an old house, like Bill mentioned, the mantels in the house, we love it, and we wanted to keep the interior, the integrity of the interior. I mean, I don't think I said something that's so important, and that makes it so beautiful. Of course. We didn't want to, like, rip away, rip down, I mean, make it open concept, rip down the fireplace, do anything like that. We wanted to keep it a beautiful, old, you know, preserving, it's renovated to the, so it's livable for people.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: There's not many like that. I mean, we've been going, since we're going to do this, we've been going to a lot of open houses. You know, even the house on, what's that? grocery, an old house in the corner. Yeah. You know, there's not many of these old girls around.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So I just have a couple of questions. So the windows, the new Marvin windows, so they're aluminum exterior? Wood clad, inside. So it's simulated divided light from them, and is the modern pattern the same as what was there? It's the exact same.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: If you look at even this right here, it's not a complicated pattern. It's only six. I think that might be a specific one. And then there's some eight over twos. Yeah. The third floor was like six over six. Same thing. Okay. And we kept on the right side of the house. There's two and right side. There's a hallway window. That's all like five inch. Diamonds, those windows we said. Yeah, and there's more. So the windows, the diamond windows. We kept them. The original windows? Yeah. Okay.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: And then on the third floor, on the opposite side of the house, there's the, yeah, there's some beautiful windows that are small, all diamond shaped, and we kept those.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Is, did the heating system in the house get changed? Yeah. Okay. That was, so that, that's what triggered, that's what triggered the process on the windows. Yeah. Okay.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay. Is the, and I'm assuming they were done as a replacement window. So what was the, so the exterior, so the exterior remained the same. You popped the sash out and you put a box unit running from, um, we,

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: use a lot of the old term we just scraped it down. Yeah. Okay. Inside note. Okay. We use a lot of it.

[Theresa Dupont]: So administratively the process for any property that's in a district is we do need to notify butters so that they have an opportunity to share their thoughts. So we would have you come back to our June meeting, just so that we can properly do that legal process of notifying neighbors. Of course. But, you know, were there any other questions? I just wanted to clarify. Did you have any questions?

[Peter Miller]: Yeah. The only question I had is the windows that you replaced, were they original to the house or were they replacement at some time?

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. Hasita, did you have any questions as well? Nope. Okay. So do you go out and shout with everybody in the district? So we'll send a mailing to people within 100 feet of the property. So that would also include some folks on the backside who are not in the district. But, you know, It's actually it would be a butters and a butters to a butters, I think at this point. So that's actually less than 100 feet. So the immediate neighbors, the immediate neighbors to those neighbors on the backside, front side and left and right. And that's probably like seven or eight houses.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: And they don't they don't have to show up. They just have to have the ability to show up. Yeah. It's a legal process. And we would need. So anything that was changed on the front of the house will mean the the paperwork for that, so like the cut sheet for the windows. Because that needs to be documented so they can review it for the meeting.

[Theresa Dupont]: And then to the point for this back window here that has, so the window has been removed and discarded and is it completely framed out for a door or is it already, there's already a door in? There's a door in. Okay. How would you want to handle

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: that element what is the kind of overstep there kind of i was under the impression that it was the front of the house and this was the back side so the way it goes is it's what's viewable from the street trees and pointed that out yes i mean it's you have you'll have to present it so you have to present it as uh you know take a picture of a of that side and then show the door that you put in and present that as this is the door we'd like to put in. Then we would discuss at that point whether that would, so then we'd have to hear the concerns of the neighbors and then we would discuss whether that would be a problem or not. In the past, I've sat on more than two projects where windows have been moved into us.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_07]: Similar to the front. It's just we didn't want a lot of view of the neighbors there. So it's just like a quarter dash up top. I see it now.

[Peter Miller]: It might be helpful to provide photos of some of the exterior doors with the storm door open so that we can see what the original one is and then what the new door would be.

[Theresa Dupont]: You can send them over to me and I can just throw them into the simples, just so we have some vintage holes as we're talking about it. Yeah, of course.

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. Cut sheet of windows, cut sheet of new door, and photos. Okay. And when is the next meeting? Next May, I feel like June 9th is sticking in my head.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: It's the second Thursday. We meet on the second Thursday of every month.

[Theresa Dupont]: 11, June 11. And again, we meet over Zoom. So if you have travel plans or something like that for that date, we do meet over Zoom. So make that a little bit more convenient.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: We'd like you to attend, but we just don't know. I mean, obviously, we're down the street, so you can just come. Yeah, we've had it where people haven't attended, and we've discussed the project without them there.

[Theresa Dupont]: We would love for you to be able to advocate for your project. Yeah, we prefer the GM. Boy, if we're in soon. Yeah. I think I have one of your email addresses at some point. I'll kick you an email tomorrow just so we can get that e-connection going. I'll need to put this mailer out two weeks beforehand. So I'll have plenty of time for that. OK. Any other mail will go, I'll handle that couple weeks and yeah, I would probably put that out sometime next week, but I'll connect with you on that. Just to give me a heads up in case people don't respond. It comes to the meeting. Right? People can always submit us written comments as well. If they're unable to attend, but it's an opportunity for people to. voice their support, voice their concerns. If you have any neighbors who would be willing to come in support of this, feel free to have them come or send some sort of written comments that they're in support of this in lieu of being here to speak.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: If there's no other questions, we can move on to the next issue. All right.

[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you very much. Like I said, I'll email you and we'll get this moving forward.

[SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Looks like we have a public comment from Julius Rose.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't about the prior topic. I just wanted to, I wasn't sure the rest of the agenda and I was hoping to have a chat about Teresa. You and I met briefly about 21 Turo and looking at building a character house with an ADU. So I wasn't sure when best to try to fit that in and just get a little bit of feedback and talk through the process.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Can I share my screen? Is that possible? I have to send a request, I guess.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay, great. Let me make sure I get the right screen here. Let me know if you can see it. We can. Great. So, yeah, basically where we live at 21 Toro Avenue, the King House, 1839. I can actually go over the pictures for familiarity.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, South Street District, I guess the newest or the third district in Medford. So, here's the main house, 1839-ish is sort of what it's assessed to be. I was reading through the documentation. We're talking about doing a new build, really nothing to touch the original house. We may later talk about, come back and think about exploring, expanding the mudroom a little bit, because it's a little small and not insulated or anything, and looking to make it actually useful. But that's not the primary thing today. We're looking to put in a garage carriage house here, basically where you can see the shed is now. There used to actually be a barn Going back, looking at the old plot lines, I have a picture here I'll show in a second of what actually used to be there. There was a 1.5 story carriage house barn up until, I don't know, 30 years ago or so that's no longer there. So, yeah, looking to build something here, just a couple shots of the existing driveway and the space we have there. Here's the actual shot from our neighbors. They gave a picture of their daughter when she was back in high school. You can see what was there a long time ago.

No longer there at all. You can't really even see the big tree that's behind there now. That used to be a pretty good size building there. What we had scoped out is this. You got the main house here, existing driveway and looking to snug in a carriage house there at the back left side of the yard. about 36 feet deep, 32 feet wide, so like a two-door oversized garage with extra depth. Here's kind of the look from the street. These are all sort of roughed out, roughed out with a friend who's an architect to kind of lay that out and just show the kind of the general look and feel of what we're kind of imagining here. But in general, yeah, looking to kind of match the the nature of the existing house so similar sort of reveal clapboard siding hardy board or you know lp or something similar to that um you know doors and windows that that match kind of the the look and feel of the the existing house which everything in this house has been replaced over time when we bought it we bought it we bought it from tufts they had it as like a you know faculty housing property and so it It had kind of the bare minimum done, but all the windows are drop-in replacements, all plastic and pretty worn. They're typically all six over sixes, so we'd be looking at doing something similar. What we put in the back, and where we have done work on our house, we put in some nicer marbons and other things as we've gone along. That's kind of the high-level overview. So this is my first time embarking on this process and coming through this. So looking for kind of feedback and what the right next step. I'm assuming we'd come back next month with something responsive to any feedback, maybe notification of abutters that I heard on the last topic. But yeah, that's kind of what we're looking at.

[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, I'll speak on the administrative process too. Like you said, there would be a butter notification that would be in response to a certificate of appropriateness. So there's an application. I believe you and I are e-connected with email, so I can send that over to you. It's pretty much a late lift, just explaining what the nature of the project is. Um, you already have it right there. Excellent.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I took a stab at it, you know, fitting what I could. I wasn't sure. I mean, there's not a space for a ton of detail. I guess you could add more sheets if you wanted more, but that's kind of kind of, you know, look and feel similar roof. slope and pitch, similar general feel, but hearing more about any thoughts on recommendations or desires around, since it's an all new build, it's going to be sort of try to be representative and fit. And I don't know if there's desires to try to match significantly or differentiate because it is all new to some degree. So yeah, I guess, yeah, what would be, what are the next steps between You know, I got this mostly filled out. Is there more you'd like to see here? Some of these things in my mind are a little chicken and egg. I don't know when we'd start because we'd have to get the 1st and I, I met with Mike in the building office to just get a sense. Also. This is informed by setbacks that he talked about what we have to have from the side versus the rear probably have to go talk to the fire folks because it's going to be possibly more than 50 feet off the street. And then we might need sprinklers and, you know, all the alarm sort of thing. So I'm trying to run all that down and I, I'm not super clear yet on. What steps in the process make this the most efficient, right? And then also, you know, how much to present here to get signed off, that if we do have to make sort of subtle tweaks, how do we ensure, yeah, kind of what's within kind of scope of, oh, if we go with an Anderson versus Marvin and it's similar look and feel, what's acceptable? when you kind of get out of bounds on what was, you know, signed off on the certificate, all the sort of, I guess I'd call kind of practical realities when you're going to build something and start to trade costs and whatnot.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Excellent. Can you go back to the plot plan? Yeah, he's running that. So 21 True, is it a corner lot? Where's the frontage? Oh, that's a driveway, obviously, right? Yeah.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I can bring that up for you if you want. I can bring up Google Maps.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to bring... My question is going to be, because this structure doesn't exist now, is it going to, from any right of way, is it going to obstruct the view of the existing historic structure?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: No, it's, um, this is kind of like, uh, this is the front of the house. It's going to be off to the left side. So if you're standing at the front of the house, the carriage house will be. would be at the back. So this is the whole street runs along here. We got neighbors on both sides. So, yeah, it wouldn't block the house.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I see. Perfect. Okay, so there's a neighbor on the right of that. That's a house right there. Okay, perfect. So this isn't going to obstruct the view. And is there a neighbor behind or is that a street? Is this a through lot that goes street to street? Yeah, there's a no, you get a neighbor. Okay.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'll get it. I'll get it for you right here. So this is. So, this is where the house is now and then we got the neighbors on both sides and we got maple. So we back up to a bunch of other houses here.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay, perfect. And is so the. the carriage house is going to be used for what purpose? It's a garage or is it a rental? ADU? What's this going to be?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Garage. I got two young boys and I like working on mechanical things. So garage for car storage and then projects inside and then ADU on top, which could end up being a rental to shop around or it could be for family.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Okay. So, okay. So that, so you're, so that, so it's definitely gonna have to have a fire rating on the walls and setbacks and whatnot. So, so really we're looking at like in your existing house, is that the siding that's showing, is that vinyl siding or is that, what is that?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay, and you're looking to do like a cementitious siding like hardy board or probably probably like it's probably like a smooth hardy or or you know a similar LP something like something with a similar reveal, but but yeah, not as a Little lower maintenance ideally then then going wood on on this thing okay, and for the for the window treatment, I know that you're not a dead stage yet, but I

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: What I would, what I'd like to see is, you know, like not a picture framing the window. I don't know how to. It looks like that white flat molding, you mean? So at the bottom, where there'd be a sill, we'd prefer to see a sill.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'd prefer to see a sill. Obviously, I can only speak for myself. Everyone on the board would have to give their opinion of the sill. And on the sides where it, On the sides where it would have to meet a fire rating, that's something you'd have to speak about. And then we would need to know if you're going to have to have just a flat board as a sill in that spot or how that would be handled.

Sorry, I'm not following, I guess what you mean there in terms of understanding that so that so, like, the trim around the window, it has to be done in in cement in a cement plank. I don't I don't believe they offer that as a still profile. So, I would want to know on those sides if there's a rating on that. You know, what how that still is going to be handled if it's going to be accepted to be in water or PVC by the building department, you know, going forward with it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay. Yeah, I think and so I think all of the windows we would install, I guess we're going to have doors, which will have, you know, want to have. you know, uh, glass, glass, you know, any glass on the doors versus being more solid, like our, our front, you know, our main doors. But I think the only windows are likely to be for the apartment above. Um, okay.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Are they close to the law line or do you want to go back to the, yeah, all we were thinking so far was, you know, something kind of face in the front. I'd let a minimum.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: That you got something on the back that the open question would be, do we, the existing house has dormers also front and back? Like, do we, do we add a dormer or not? We're not, we're not sure. So, but the only windows would be up, but that, that, that. 2nd story or 1 and a half story as they call it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: So, um, does that change the requirements in general because I know, like, on our well, I'd like, yeah.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: My personal preference would be to have a sill on that and I don't think you'd have an issue putting a sill on that because it's not on the side where it has a fire reading. So you'd be able to put a PVC sill there that would be similar to the existing house and it shouldn't be a problem. I guess one other question would be the garage doors, what are you thinking with that?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm still certainly looking. It's, you know, something that looks like it would have matched a carriage house, but still be able to do the roll up. So I've been looking at it. You know, there's a handful of... looking at different options from different companies, but something that's not just going to be the traditional panel like this one here, but something that has texture that might be simulated wood, might be a composite, could be steel, but is stamped to mimic wood-like construction.

[Peter Miller]: Do you have any idea from any of the insurance maps or anything you may have seen as to how big the original carriage house was, and are you locating this garage? I mean, do you have any from digging around or anything? Do you know exactly where it was sited, or is it more or less where it was sited?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: It's more or less where it was sited, like you can see from the picture. You know, if you look here, kind of just perspective-wise, I think probably the other one was further in, but also I'm looking at a bunch of the old, you know, going back to the 1830s and the various, records they have of what was here. It's gone through a bunch of iterations. There was the main house that we have now. At one time, there was maybe an L that even connected the carriage house to the main house. And then there was the carriage house separate from the main house. So it went through a lot of evolutions, and I don't have it available here. But yeah, quite a lot of geometry over time over a few different maps showing as the thing was added to, taken apart, and split up. Even in our house in the basement, there's a big water pipe that goes straight out towards where the carriage house was that we fished out, and it just kept going. But it's empty and cut off now.

It's, yeah, ballpark-sided. We're looking to kind of push it a little further back, although we might want to bring it closer if, from the fire perspective, if we want to get it within 50 feet of the sidewalk and the, you know, to avoid having to also do all the sprinklers and the, you know, the alarm wiring and everything.

[Peter Miller]: I'm just curious how how big was that structure compared to the house? Because from the plan you've got there, the garage is the same size, if not even a little bigger, but just eyeballing it from the house itself. And is that going to overwhelm the house or anything like that?

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: The house is 30 by 40. And then with the porch, it's 36 by 40. So it's still physically larger. than the carriage house. Carriage house is 32 by 36. And then it's also narrower from the front. So 32 wide, the house is 40 wide. So I think it's got the presence. And then if you look here, you can kind of see the relative scale. Um, it's taller. It's also the house is also on a mound, you know, it's kind of like built up in the center of the yard. So you go up, I'll show you the pictures again. So it's, um, uh, that's why I sort of purposely made it deeper than wider on the, on the garage side to, to make it a little more subservient to the, the main house. Um, let's see. Yeah, you can see here, you can see, or you step up here, you step up here and from the side, it's like, uh, You got five steps up to the porch on the front. The lot slopes up a little bit there towards the back. We're going to have to move the shed to do some things there.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Probably to push it to another part of the yard and I'll maybe the other back corner Not moved to shed before Yeah, if I could go back in my time machine I would have put it in the other part of the yard now So it goes yeah, but um, yeah, they like you said the the picture here you can get a sense of the scale it's a little hard because it's just the one shot but it's You know, it's, you know, the driveway was over here and it kind of, it looks like this is set closer to the road than what we're looking at. So we might end up getting, you know, wanting to bring it closer to be like that too. And for the fire reasons, but also just in general, but it might be a cost driver too if we have to spend a good amount of money on sprinklers and fire just to satisfy that requirement.

Yeah, per our neighbor's patent bill, Hanson across the road, this is their daughter. They gave me this picture when we talked about it. It said it just sort of collapsed over time back, I don't know, in the 90s or 80s or 90s.

[Theresa Dupont]: So we've kind of given some treatment options that we may like to see some materials. So if you could plug that into an official plan, and then we'll bring it to our next meeting and then be able to make a determination on the appropriateness.

[Peter Miller]: If it's appropriate to ask, just elevations of the structure as to really what that's going to look like as opposed to, and contrast that to, you know, we can look at photographs of the existing house, of course. If you have someone who can do some renderings of it or something, that'd be great. And then it's great to see that you do have different cut sheets and things of different products and like that. So as long as we have a pretty decent idea as to what that's going to look like, what you're going to be looking at when you save from the street.

[Theresa Dupont]: To Julius's earlier question about, let's say we bless that it's the Marvin windows and then this style of door and then he goes to order it and now suddenly it's on back order. So God knows when would we would make him come back and then give a final design. If he had to change that after the fact, is that something you guys would want to see come back or the leniency of small changes that I think we can leave it as.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: We'll go around with a question on that, but I would be okay with just saying, you know, this is the window size. It's this, you know, six over one or whatever, whatever is chosen. And if he can get a better deal from a different brand, that's fine. And I'm okay with, and we'll go around, cause I'm just giving my opinion. I'm okay with, you know, I guess on the, on the siding, I would, I, because there are some cement sidings that have, it looks, you know, it looks like you painted cardboard, you know, I guess I would want to know which, which one that, which one's being used. Yeah.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Yeah. I think like, I think that's where our, our house is a mixture of very smooth from when we had to replace siding to painted over siding that looks weathered. So I think, I think I'd be keen to go as smooth because I haven't liked the look of some of the ones that try to pretend to be wood with grain and just have a nice, Nice. So like kind of the, I think the harder you can get it in a smooth, you can get most of these and just smooth. And, um, it's either ingrained with the color or you, or you paint it with, with some durable paint, but, but have something that yeah. Best represents what, even if it's even, um, something like that.

[Peter Miller]: Yeah, I think us knowing what the physical characteristics of siding, windows, doors, things like that as to what they're going to look like is really what our concern is. If you use Marvin or Pella or whatever, I think that's kind of up to you as far as what you want to do. But we would want to know, is it a four over four window? Is it a six panel door? Is it those kinds of things as far as what the appearance is.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. So is it more about, yeah, that kind of like from the street, the aesthetics of it's a six over six versus, you know, there's no muntins in there and that wouldn't have fit in at the time. And less about the, well, is it vinyl, is the muntin vinyl or is the window actual wood or is it PVC? As long as it's, you know, Like, I guess, are there strong preferences or suggestions around that, or is it kind of like from 20 feet back from the street, and you couldn't really tell if it's vinyl or wood, but it's a high-enough quality one, you know, from Marvin or Pella or something that, as long as it's got the general design style and aesthetic, that's more the focus? I'm just trying to get a... Yeah.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: It's just going to harmoniously blend with your property. Obviously, my personal preference would be an aluminum exterior. I think that gives a crisp line that would look most like a wood window or whatever. You know, it would be up to you to look at the window that you have the windows you have on your existing house and then present to us the window that you're proposing on the new structure and then explain how that harmoniously. balances and I'm very easily convinced.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay, good to know. I'd honestly say I don't want to be probably too harmonious with the quality of the windows that are on our house from when we moved in because they're pretty poor replacements that were put in before we got here. I'd be hoping for something that'll last a little longer and won't be breaking up.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Maybe an overall you might want to do an overall thought of, you know, when you hit mega bucks and you want to do all the windows, what, what you would do, you know, down the road.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay. So I guess to just summarize, I'm hearing like, you know, key, key attributes are be able to bring the cut sheets for the siding and the, maybe, maybe most ideally say, looking at these, these families from these three vendors of siding, of windows, of doors, and the styles for those. Did I hear also one in, like, I guess it gets pretty complicated to start modeling this with the actual window versus sort of like, oh, it's got a six over six in here and not just, you know, as designed here. How much further in these sorts of drawings are you looking to get, or is this kind of As long as we have the heights right, we get a good measurement on the top of this house. And then this stack up, I think, is actually more accurate than this one, because I haven't surveyed the main house. I only have what I could probably get out and measure with a tape measure and just kind of go floor by floor until I bring a surveyor out. So I guess what, from a drawing standpoint, would you want to see? Or is this kind of close, but some tweaks?

[Peter Miller]: Well, with the elevation, for me personally, for the elevations, I mean, I want to see what the, like, trim around the doors would look like. And it doesn't have to be, you know, dead on or anything, but if you're going to have a, you know, if you're going to have a 12-inch board around that or something, or 8-inch or something, I'd like to see that represented on that. You wouldn't have that rendering that I've sent.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Hey, Seema has her hand raised. I believe she has a question.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt. I do have a quick request. So I was wondering when, can you go back to the sheet where you have the plan? Yes. So in this plan, would you be able to show us where your abutting neighbors are and then probably when if you can like if you stand on the road and take a photograph multiple photographs towards your site and if you can plop in on on like the Google Maps itself you can plop the little human and then you can click those views yeah If you can sketch out or put the existing proposal onto the location so we can see from where exactly this one is going to pop in, that's going to be really helpful.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Just take a screenshot and then put the elevation right where you're expecting the structure to go.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay. So just kind of do my best version of, look, there's me.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, so that way it's easier for us to visualize. I personally wouldn't want you to put like the materials and everything, but from the street view, if you can just show me a perspective of how big the structure is going to look and how close it is to the neighbors and the trees. I know right now the screenshot is like pure winter and you do not see any of the bushiness of the trees. But once you take the summer view or the spring view, the structure might be hidden behind a tree. So a little bit of those seasonal changes that if we can see and how it looks with respect to the existing house and with respect to the neighboring house.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: OK. Also, I just want to say I agree with how the design, more than the company or the manufacturer, you would go for windows and doors. We just don't want it to stand out like it's brand new, even though it's brand new.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so it sounds like the siding, the windows, the doors, and then, like you said, the trim around the door is sort of like how heavy it is, right? Like, is it 8 or is it 12? Because obviously, yeah, like the Greek Revival has these very large, at least above the columns. Um, okay. Um, and then, then I heard the, uh, just making sure that this is, you know, as accurate as can be in terms of the relative heights. Um, so we can try to get a better measurement on that in the house and then add the trim, the relevant trim around these. Sounds like the, the action for, for these drawings and then get something akin to this and sort of plot in. The relative size, I guess, is the best we can about what would go in there.

[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. Do you want me to screen share this? Yeah, go ahead. Julie, I'm going to go. I'm going to boost the screen sharing capabilities because I just want to share something and then member Mackie is going to.

[Peter Miller]: All right, this was for another property from, I think it was a year or so ago.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: And the owner, I guess they wanted to... I was just going to say, I don't think it's coming through on the screen share yet.

[Peter Miller]: Okay, this was another property, another carriage house, and the owner wanted to put in a larger garage door and replace the original doors. So they had given us a couple of photographs, and this was actually something that I did in a PDF editor. where we were kind of going back and forth as to the type of doors, the type of transom window, that kind of thing. We had discussed it in a meeting just like this, but then kind of getting across what we wanted them to show us. I did something like this where I just based off of the photograph, I tried to eyeball the size of the trim, the type of door, that kind of thing. So if you could add at least kind of that level of detail if you're going to have quarter boards, if you're going to have trim around windows, around the doors, that kind of thing. It would be nice to see that. And then if you really fancy, if you're able to transpose that onto a photograph with the house, great. But otherwise, we could kind of look at the two of them side by side and say, yeah, this would look nice. This would look appropriate with it.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: OK. Now, that's helpful to have that example there. kind of like best effort approximation of the look and feel. Yeah, exactly. Okay, great. I think I have everything I need, I guess, is what you saw generally in at least the application that I wrote up there, just kind of generally describe it, but then the kind of the rubber meets the road on the supporting drawings and things of the details, right? So in terms of timeliness of getting that to you ahead of next month's meeting so that it can also be socialized with the Butters, is there like a suggested desired time frame for that? And then which email address should I send it to?

[Theresa Dupont]: It should be sent to me, tdupont at Medford. I think I gave you my card, but yeah, tdupont at Medford-ma.gov. we'd be meeting on June 11th. So it would be ideal to have that a week ahead of time so that everybody has the weekend and a couple extra days to review it. So if we could have that in by end of day, June 4th, do you think that that would be attainable on your end?

[Theresa Dupont]: We can stay in communication if you need like an extra day or so, but I think that would be a good target to have everything to us by June 4th or June 11th.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: OK. OK, great. All right. Sounds good. No, I appreciate you letting me jump in and take extra time.

[Theresa Dupont]: Sure. Of course. Excited about this project. And I was going to ask you if that was you on Google Street View. So thank you for confirming that one for me.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. That was me post-knee surgery actually talking to Bill, who gave me the picture of his daughter yelling across the road while the Google mapper came through. So. So funny.

[Theresa Dupont]: Oh, that's funny. But yeah, send me an email, and I'm happy to coach you through this. But I think we've got some good direction for you.

[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you. Thank you. I think we only have one other order of business, yeah?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, do we want to get? Let's read the meeting minutes and vote on that.

[Theresa Dupont]: So I can pull them up for a screen share. capable of doing that. See, Roberta, it's not just the CPC meetings where I struggle with technology. Oh, you are muted.

[Theresa Dupont]: I just have to talk myself through it first. All right, meeting minutes coming up as a screen share. They were in the Dropbox meeting packet. which I acknowledge, Roberta, I did not send to you for that. I apologize, but we're looking at it now. So this is from our last meeting, which was April 9th. It was a shorter meeting, kind of touched on the Medford Square rezoning, as well as doing some prep work for our next presentation with Mr. Goldstein.

[Roberta Cameron]: I would love to actually get a copy of the minutes and see the discussion about the Medford Square rezoning when you have a chance.

[Theresa Dupont]: Of course. I'll send the meeting minutes from the previous meeting, too, because that was the more substantive conversation about rezoning. But yeah, I'll share all that with you.

[Theresa Dupont]: Whenever somebody is ready, I think you're looking for a motion to accept the minutes.

[Theresa Dupont]: Oh, OK. Yeah. It was blessed by City Council, so just need to do some appointment paperwork. Okay, and I vote yes, so it's accepted.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Does anyone have anything else they want to discuss at this meeting?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: I do. Teresa, I was unable to attend the first few minutes, almost like 20 minutes. Would you be able to send over the presentation? Yes. Thank you.

[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, of course. It was actually a really good one, so I'm excited to share that with as many people as I want to.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would love to have that as well. I was like, I had toddler crisis, so I couldn't join earlier.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: I just have one parting question. Does any of the post-district sort of certificate of appropriateness being received, do permits still go through the historic commission as well, or is the district sort of supersede and then that no longer has to happen, or does it still do both? I'm just curious.

[Theresa Dupont]: So, there's 2 different commissions in the city of Medford. There's us where we only have jurisdiction over those houses. They're inside of districts on the other side. We also have the historical commission and they do review any building permit for property. That's 75 plus years. Obviously, your house qualifies. However, since this is a new build, I. You would need to still have them review your building permit. But I do not believe, since there's no demolition, that you would have any additional reviews from them. So they'll just review it administratively at the building permit level. But since you're not doing any demolition, you should be in the clear there.

[CAS00002479_SPEAKER_06]: OK. Great, sounds good. And yeah, one, sorry, one more too. When I do circle background and we do want to take on the mudroom adjustment, obviously then we're touching the main original house. I don't know how original, frankly, the mudroom is. It's sort of a hodgepodge of a structure bolted onto the side of the house. I imagine the same things kind of apply or given that it is part of the house, you know, you kind of take a little bit of a different look there. It's got the same sort of window challenges. Uh, it's on, you know, just some stones on the corners. Uh, we'd probably just be looking to grow that into a more useful size, but nothing dramatic. It's just kind of got a weird turn in it and it's not all that great of a structure. Um, just kind of any general guidance around that in terms of how to approach that when the time comes.

[Theresa Dupont]: I think similar. Similar to your build on the carriage house, you know, treatments, elevations, drawings, what have you. So it'd be very similar on our end. But just as a heads up, since you'd be potentially adjusting, that may have some more involvement on the historical commission side, because now you're getting into that structure. But for us, it would be very similar to the carriage house.

[Theresa Dupont]: The microphone would be seen from the street, right? It's on the left-hand side of the house.

[Theresa Dupont]: Oh. To Mr. Mackey's point, are our jurisdictions anything that's viewable from the public way? So if this was on the backside of your house, then, yeah, it would be moot at that point. But yeah, I believe you, sir, it was on the left. Oh, OK. Yeah.

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: If there's nothing else, someone wants to make a motion to adjourn the meeting?

[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: All right, we'll take a vote on that, James. Yes. Hasida. And I vote yes as well. So the meeting's adjourned.

[Theresa Dupont]: Awesome. Thank you all so much. This was a great meeting. Thank you, Julie.