The Medford Historic District Commission discussed options to incorporate historic protections into the proposed Medford Square rezoning and reviewed an informal siding proposal for the 16 Whitman Road carriage house project. Consideration of the December meeting minutes was postponed to March.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: All right. All right. So we're going to get started. The agenda tonight is discussion of the Medford Square rezoning, 16 Whitman Road, the Carriage House project, an update regarding it, and then reviewing the meeting minutes from December. Doug, I believe you're going to present something for us on the Medford Square rezoning.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah, I'm going to be very brief because I don't think we can get into a lot of detail. I just want to kind of set the table for what I think needs to happen over the next 12 months, maybe even shorter. Sorry.
[Theresa Dupont]: Doug, could you just introduce yourself for the cadence of the meeting?
[Doug Carr]: We all know who you are. Sure. Doug Carr. I'm the chair of the Community Development Board. I still am on the Medford Historical Commission, but that may be changing as there's turnover on that board. Um, so I wanted to just kind of set the table a little bit for what's happening. Um, you may have heard that this, you know, the city council, uh, zoning map for re rezoning Medford square from all the way from route 93 to, uh, Winthrop street and Winthrop circle is on the table. Again, it's back, uh, after the election. And, uh, unfortunately there's not a lot in there for protection of historic properties, uh, which message, whereas you know, has many. And so I want to send you guys just kind of a couple of maps, a couple of what's being proposed and some of the resources map and start to begin a conversation for different ways through zoning and maybe through historic districts where we can allow redevelopment to occur but protect the buildings we care about. Just in a broad general sense, that's what I think the goal is in front of us as a city over the next, I mean, it could be the next two or three months. The council could get this done quite quickly if there's consensus. But right now, there's not any historic protections for historic properties in this proposal. So I am raising my hand as someone who wears many hats in Medford saying, you got to do something more than just rezone. You need to think about what's here that's important for the square. Think of St. Joe's Church and the Bigelow building and even more modern buildings like the recent but the public library, like what, are we doing anything there? You know, because not everything is historic building, but St. Joe's Church, you know, there's five or six churches along that, you know, within the study area that need to be thought about, but also the school, you know, high school, you know, you guys know, and I think sharing the resources list that we have for all the survey work that Ryan and others have overseen over the last 10 years, would be a good place to start. And then I think we just need to kind of sit down together separate meeting, not tonight, obviously, and just think, okay, what are the options here? What could we, what are the different tools? Zoning tool, historic district tool to get what we want in out of this once in a lifetime rezoning effort from Meckler Square. That's the big picture. And I can also turn it over to Ryan, because I'm sure he has additional thoughts as somebody who knows far more about historic resources than I do in Meckler given his, encyclopedia of knowledge of the city. Ryan?
[Theresa Dupont]: If Ryan, you could kind of introduce yourself just for, again, we all know you, but for other folks.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Hi all, Ryan Hayward, Medford Historical Commission. Well, coming up on 20 year veteran of historic preservation in the city of Medford, holy moly. So, uh, yeah, just, you know, Medford square has sort of been the, uh, civic heart for the last, you know, 200 years. And it has some really important architectural and, uh, civic buildings that, uh, we should do some protection of them. And, uh, you know, I think with the rezoning happening here.
[Doug Carr]: Uh-oh.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Ryan, you froze. Related process and get it done.
[Doug Carr]: You froze for about 10 seconds there, Ryan. I think we missed the last two sentences.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: I just advocated for getting it done.
[Doug Carr]: Fair enough. So we don't want to get into any details here, but we want to just kind of understand where you guys are. What are your thoughts? There's been some discussion in the past that hasn't gone very far. But this is the time to think about action, because things are going to move this year for sure in Bedford Square. And Upper Boulder as well.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So we've had discussions about increasing and making more historic districts. It is something we had a vote on, we're interested in doing. I don't think that it would work to have one large all-encompassing district. I think it would be individual properties, like was voiced in that email that came out.
[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, I think there's a couple of different opportunities here. I kind of share your concerns about a full blanket district because not every building is the same in terms of its architectural value or historical value. But this is a very initial conversation. We're not planning anything right now. But those are my thoughts. I want to just recognize the members of the board. Thank you, Roberta, for being here. But Charlotte or James, do you guys have any thoughts about about this endeavor?
We do have some newer members. No commercial property in Medford is currently under historic district protections. It would be a new entity. The things that are under historic district are all residential at this point.
[Peter Miller]: I think it would make sense to explore things. I mean, certainly as we said, Medford Center has a lot of historic buildings, both commercial and residential in the area that was listed from 93 down to the circle. I guess we'd have to talk about if we did do that, how does that impact any future growth? Um, and, uh, you know, in that area, especially commercially, because there's there are some buildings, I think that that should be protected or should be saved. And then there's other buildings where it's like, okay, if we. Decided to have them down and build something new in order to kind of regenerate the, uh, Medford Square, whether it be resident, more residential, whether it be more commercial or something like that. What is, um.
Yeah, do we do we cherry pick buildings? Do we do we just. blanket it. I guess I'm asking these questions only because I'm new to the process. But I think that would be a good idea. It kind of surprises me that there isn't something already for some of the buildings. They seem like, for Medford's history in general, they're pretty important.
[Theresa Dupont]: Darlett, do you have any thoughts?
[Patricia Brady]: Not really, I'm following with James. James has to say, and I agree with him. You know, there's some things that need to be done to bring us all together. So thank you, James.
[Theresa Dupont]: Do you want to take Roberta's comment? Sure. As a member of the public, Roberta, who's also, if you want to introduce yourself, Roberta, you are another person that wears many hats for the City of Bedford.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. So Roberta Cameron and the hats that I wear include chair of the Community Preservation Committee, and I serve on the Affordable Housing Trust Board as well. And I wanted to offer some additional perspective. Besides the commercial properties in Medford Square, I think we could look uniquely at the institutional properties in Medford Square many of which have either received city funds in the past to preserve their historic features, or we can anticipate that they may request city funds in the future through the Community Preservation Act program to protect their historic features. And I would ask for, I have in the past asked for consideration of putting these institutional buildings under local historic district designation to protect the investment that we've made of city funds. And that I think also coincides with this current interest in rezoning in Medford Square, because it would specifically protect some of the most significant buildings. These include the Grace Episcopal Church, the Unitarian Church and the building next to the Unitarian Church, the Isaac Hall House, the Armory, and the Chevalier Theater. I can't think if I'm missing any of the buildings that we've already funded. We've talked about putting funds into City Hall. We've entertained an application before which didn't end up moving forward for the Catholic church. So there are a number of, some of the buildings that I think we would have the greatest interest in protecting zoning wise are also buildings that we have an interest in protecting because of our investment of public funds into those buildings. And the concern about the potential for limiting future growth opportunities is not the same for these institutional buildings as it is for commercial buildings. So while we're weighing these ideas about whether to create local historic districts in Medford Square, I'd like to think of the institutional buildings as their own stream of thought, you know, line to pursue and the commercial buildings potentially as a separate set of buildings to consider so that we can separate those two ideas as we consider the prospect.
[Theresa Dupont]: That makes sense to me. Thank you, Roberta. Chairperson Carr.
[Doug Carr]: Not in this case, but yes. I agree with Roberta. I think we really need to explore all the tools that are available to us over the next few months because we don't have a lot of time because the city council wants to move fast and they're going to move. The consensus seems to be from the meeting I just had over the last couple hours ago that they There seems to be a consensus building that the three parcels behind City Hall that was put out as an RFP are going to be broken off from all the rest of Method Square so that they can kind of be fast-tracked, because there doesn't appear to be a lot of divisiveness or questions about those. And those could be – it's kind of low-hanging fruit, and there are blank parking lots right now, and those are relatively easy and painless to rezone and get them going, because You could get 300 or 400 apartments plus retail, plus other potential uses in those within a couple of years if they can just get them going while we wrestle with some of the other issues about parking and about historic properties and about all the other stuff. The square is a mosaic of hundreds of years of architecture. So we want to try to figure out, is it a zoning tool? I love the idea about exclusive protection. I want to understand if that's overlay for, you know, because we want to, a lot of these buildings, we want to allow them to be reinvented and re-imagined, but still protect some of their, their basic architecture, like St. Joe's, the building, you know, the school itself could be preserved as apartments if it came, if it became a non-school, but the whole, you know, the whole gym and all those modern buildings behind it perhaps could be torn down and redesigned sympathetically. And we want to allow the tools to do both like, you know, you know, that mix of new development created, but also respect for what's there now. So, you know, I, I think this, this, uh, historic district commission, I want to be a player. I want you to be a stakeholder. I want you to be part of the conversation. And I think there's an educational component for myself as well, uh, both on the, on the city board and the historic district commission. to understand what the tools are and leverage them to make sure we get what we want. And that's what I'm asking. The big picture is, let's get involved. And ultimately, something will come out of this that will, I think, land in your laps about whether it's single-use historic district or some kind of larger district. I don't know. I don't have a strong feeling right now. I want to understand what they would look like in different forms. along with other tools to see what the right approach is.
This is not something that's going to take two or three years, it's going to take two or three months. There's a sense of urgency here. The council wants to have something done for Medford Square, I think by the middle of the year. We need to accelerate our evaluation, look at the work that's been done over the last 10, 15 years and survey work, and put together some kind of a plan that we can then hopefully put in front of the council and the community development board and achieve consensus. That's the big picture.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I think something that's important to me is that also is that the property owners of these properties are also on board with making them a historic district. And I think that may slow the process down to encourage them to want to be part of this. That was something we did with the South Street District. We had a lot of public meetings and there were people in the district that were going to be part of the district that wanted them. We let them out of it.
and they weren't polymystic. So, that's something that I think would be important through this process as well. So, the three-month, I really think that's, I don't want to say impossible, but I kind of see that as being very difficult, almost impossibly difficult.
[Doug Carr]: Here's the difference. I agree with you. It would take a lot longer than three months to figure this out, obviously. But I think if we could figure out what the plan should be in the next three months, even if you don't execute it, like which path are we taking? If we could figure that out in the next three months, like, you know, what is the, is it a zoning path? Is it a district path? Is it like, there's, as Roberta mentioned, I think the institutional thing is a great idea. I think there are other incentives for development that could be part of that. We need people who are zoning experts to really help us get to where we want to be. And we have a consultant, obviously, who's been around for a couple of years. But I don't feel that historic preservation is at the top of their knowledge base or concerns right now. And we need that. We need their expertise to get the ends that we want to achieve.
[Theresa Dupont]: A question I have, Innes Associates is the zoning consultant. Do you know for a fact if they have anybody on their side that is a historic preservation minded? Do they have any consultants? Because I guess my first thought, and Joe, correct me if you think differently, is If we had all the time in the world, we would bring on a consultant to help us guide us through this. Because again, this is kind of uncharted waters for us. And that's what we did on the South Street project. And that was just residential. We're talking about commercial. So this has a deeper impact, I would feel. So it would be nice if we could, and I'm happy to explore on my end, because I help pay their bills and everything for the PDF's office, so I can find out too. It would be nice if Innis did have that as a piece of their portfolio that they could offer to us as consultants. If not, I think we'll have to explore finding one, which obviously takes money and time, which I think we could get the money.
easily enough, but time is.
[Doug Carr]: The time is the problem. The time is the real crunch right now because, you know, they're not going to want to, I would imagine if, you know, and I want to, Roberta chime in here, but if it is, maybe they can consult, you know, we can, anyway, let me defer to Roberta. She has an idea. She was in this world more than I do.
[Roberta Cameron]: Thank you. If I may through the chair, um, the, um, the, with respect to developing a, uh, local historic district for the institutional properties, I feel as though that could be appropriate to spend CPA admin funds to support that because we, most of those institutional properties we have already used CPA funds to protect or to preserve them. I would not be so confident as to suggest using CPA funds for the commercial properties in the square because I'm not sure that, with maybe one exception, that most of them ever have or would use CPA funds to preserve their buildings. And I also feel as though there may be other alternatives that INNIS can offer for protecting the commercial buildings. So I would strongly encourage continuing to work with INNIS on the commercial side to find a zoning solution for historic preservation of the commercial properties.
But on the other hand, if you did want to explore local historic district for, for the commercial properties, that might be something that the city might be able to match funding to, um, combined to put out and look for a consultant for that project. Yeah.
[Theresa Dupont]: Our commission, we don't have a ton of money, but we have a few thousand dollars that we could throw towards the project. We could fundraise within City Hall, I feel like, if we needed to hire another consultant. But I like your suggestion of trying to find a zoning solution with our current zoning consultant as we're looking at this project. Doug, as the chair of the Community Development Board, A question for you, do you feel like you would want a representative from the historic district commission to come to the next meeting where you're talking about Medford square zoning at this point? Um, what do you, what are you envisioning?
[Doug Carr]: And then we'll see what we can, how we can, our next meeting, um, is going to have, uh, in his talking to us in kind of. walking us through the background, answering our questions about zoning. And I'm sure this topic will be part of it because we've, we've, that's been, we put together a list of our concerns and that was one of them, not the, not the only one, but there was one of them. So, you know, that, um, but then following that is the combined community development board meeting and the city council in chambers, like it was back in January. And I think that might be the place where if, you know, representatives from historic district commission and the historic commission could say, you know, we're starting to meet and discuss this. We're looking at ideas, just again, to reinforce that, that it's not one person that's thinking about that. There's a fleet of people in Medford, including some of the planning folks, you and some of your colleagues, I know, are concerned about this issue as well. It was kind of ignored for the Salem Street corridor. There was nothing there. There was no protections for any building along that corridor, one mile from 93 to Baldwin. And there are resources along there that were just ignored. And we don't want that to be repeated. We've insisted that not be repeated. So this is an opportunity. I don't want to slow us down, but I want to focus our efforts and get the plan, you know, With a couple of moves, this plan could be passed, I think, this spring. But it just can't be passed. Its current form is, to me, just unacceptable, because there's nothing there of any protection of any kind. And that's just, for Medford Square, it's almost like it ignores 400 years of history.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: We need more. So when's your next meeting? Our next meeting?
[Doug Carr]: Yes, the next community development board meeting is the 18th, next Wednesday. And the combined joint meeting with the city council is the following Wednesday, the 25th of February. If you can't make one, it'd be great to have somebody representing the other, you know, and just speak in broad terms about your concerns.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'll definitely be joining. I'll definitely join via Zoom. James and Charles, if you could as well, it'd be great. If not, I can't present what I've gathered from the meeting. Thank you.
[Theresa Dupont]: And then I don't want to, yeah, just one other quick point too. Medford is just the next thing that we're looking, next district that we're looking to rezone as a city. And then we'll get like West Medford next. And then so, I think that this is going to be a continuing conversation, right?
[Doug Carr]: Yeah. I think Boston Ave, zone around Tufts is the next one after this one, according to the schedule that I saw, which I think, Theresa, that Danielle has a copy of the draft. It's an evolving list. I think West Miffin might be after that, but I'm not sure. But that would probably be in the fall, if I had to guess. But they're going to come one after another. This is the biggest one, obviously, but the template here is important to establish a better template than we had. I agree.
[Theresa Dupont]: Medford Square is like the gem of our historic fabric of our city, but that doesn't mean that there isn't stuff over on Boston Ave, West Medford.
[Doug Carr]: Yeah. I don't want to get a meeting that was under a bit of duress. So I don't have any other comments or questions unless there's someone here to.
[Theresa Dupont]: All right. So we'll show up at the 18th and the 25th.
[Peter Miller]: Is it the 25th or the 26th?
[Doug Carr]: I wrote down the 25th.
[Theresa Dupont]: Are they Wednesdays, Doug?
[Doug Carr]: They are Wednesday. It's the 25th. OK.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you for that, Claire.
[Doug Carr]: Let me find out the agenda. I think that if you had a choice, probably the better one would be for the 25th. But let me find out. I'll get back to Teresa on that.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Would you mind, are there some materials that you could provide us with, like the map ahead of time, so we could bring ourselves up to speed a little bit on it? I haven't been following it at all. The map of the 93, where the boundaries are of this area, so I can drive it and look at these properties as well prior to this meeting?
[Doug Carr]: Absolutely. There's a full presentation map, there's one that has just historic resources on it, which is a good one, and then there's a current zoning map, which is a definition like that that shows that quite a bit of it's being up-zoned quite a bit along a lot of the corridor. Certainly, East Bedford, some of those buildings could be quite tall, but that's mostly parking lots now.
[Theresa Dupont]: Awesome. If you want to send those materials over to me, I'll make sure I get to all the members. And I should be able to attend both meetings personally, but we'll have representatives there for the 25th as well. Thank you so much, Doug and Ryan and Roberta. Everybody's comments. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time. Good night. We got one more thing to talk about as a committee, but we got everybody here.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: If you don't mind, Ryan, you were going to present to us, update us on the 16 Whitman Road, the carriage house project.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yeah, the, the clients are going to move forward with their project and they just had a question on whether or not the commission would entertain board and batten siding. So when we did some interior, It became apparent that the outside sheathing is actually the original board and batten finish on this barn and although we don't plan to expose that to the weather anymore. clients are interested in recreating that historic finish on the outside of their building. We just wanted to see because it's a dramatic departure from what's there now, which is shingles on that and the shingles are over clapboards. There's three progressive layers to this building, all of which pass the layers of history of this and we weren't sure which one, which one the historic district would want as the final finish. The existing house is shingles long-term. The plan is to go back to clapboards, which would be the historic finish for that building. But the barn is a different animal because it's being treated as an ADU and garage. We're just getting initial feedback from you guys so that we can start to prepare construction drawings so that we can then come formally before you guys for a final review.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So in the Boyd & Batten signing for the garage, how are you planning on doing that? Like wood? Or are you going to do hardy wood?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yeah, it'll be a wood finish in that instance. Okay. It'll be a wide pine with just a narrow pine strip between them covering the lap joint.
[Theresa Dupont]: Okay. And then the clapboard, is that just like a five inch lap or?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: No, it'd be completely gone. So the building, Teresa, can I share my screen?
[Theresa Dupont]: Yeah, I just made your co-host so you could do that. Let's see if I can. I'm just trying to be prepared. Because right now we're considering three different treatment options, right?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: All right, yeah, hold on, let's see. So I have my, this would be the board and batten design. This is not my building, this is just what it looks like. So it'll still have corner boards, it'll still have all the trim around the windows, just the siding will be vertical as opposed to horizontal. And in terms of what the building looks like now, this is the carriage house.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to walk up to the screen and get really yeah. Oh, that's better.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yeah, so there's a building basically exists like this. Now there's a couple of. skylights in the roof, and there's some shingles where we're showing clapboards. This is what I had previously presented to the board, just as a schematic design. But we want to consider going to the vertical siding. So just imagine, instead of the lines going this way, that they'd be going up and down.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Are the board and bed, are you going to keep it consistent? Are you going to have a uniform
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: spacing or is are you going to random or no there'll there'll be a uniform spacing all the way across and they'll uh i will adjust them to just like you would clapboards so you can adjust them so that they hit it in line with some of these features okay great So that's the bulk of it. In order to meet code, the project is going to require some pretty extensive reconstruction of this building, but they are committed to preserving it. They're thankful that it is still standing. It is going to come forward and move off of both property lines that it's currently on. So there'll be some breathing room. uh for the neighbors and um yeah it's uh it's looking to be and it's going to add a effectively what is a completely invisible housing unit to uh and some invisible density to this neighborhood so that is something they're looking forward to one silly quick question ryan i probably know it in the back of my head because we've talked about this project quite a few times
[Theresa Dupont]: The movement of the building will that remove it from the public view?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: No, not at all. It's coming forward to meet the life safety code setbacks that are required by egress for the second means of egress out of the emergency windows that are in the back of this building. They look just like regular windows, but it just allows them to egress. And in the event of any sort of catastrophe, the fire department has space without the need to interfere with fences or crossing over the boundary lines.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you for that clarification.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yep.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Do you it's not important, but do you have a sketch of what it's going to look like with the board?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: I don't yet. I can certainly do that and send it over to you guys and have you guys take a look at it between now and next month because I'm going to be moving our construction drawings. So that's like. uh, not absolutely critical. There's lots of stuff to detail on the inside of this building. Um, and, um, you know, there's some structural details that need to happen. Um, but, uh, you know, if you guys want to see it, I'm between now and next month, you guys, it's not, it's not necessary for me to see it.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I can, I can visualize it. Plus I've, you know, um, that was the original siding from what's been said. Um, so that's fine. It just, uh, James, do you have any opinions on it?
[Peter Miller]: I think that because it was, as you just said, because it was the original siding, if they wanted to go back with something like that, I think it would still honor and be true to the original nature of the building. And I also don't think that if it's different than what the house has, if the house is still going to have shingles and this has the board and batten, I don't think everything has to match. I think historically it's going to have the site itself as a whole will have a nice flavor. And the fact that it's different, it's like, well, sure, that could have been built at different times. It could have been built that way because it's a different function than the house. So I don't have a problem with it, especially since through doing some investigation, you found that it actually had that originally. So that'd be kind of nice to bring that back.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yeah, it's sort of interesting. Based on its size, it is possible, although the dormer sort of obliterated any potential evidence of it, it may have been an English barn, but they stopped building those right around the time that this building sort of came into existence. It is certainly one of the oldest carriage houses still extant in Medford, so it's got that going for it.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Charlotte, what are your thoughts?
[Patricia Brady]: I'm agreeing with what's going on in front of me. A lot of it is beyond me, but very interesting, following it right through.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I have no problem with the board and I think it's going to look great. I like that a lot.
[Theresa Dupont]: Is the decision as to what the final treatment is it like a cost decision or a design decision? So you said you're doing construction drawings, so I'm just curious.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: I mean, they want to price out this project. They're pretty confident it's going to be in the high, probably the high threes, maybe around $400,000. So they just, you know, they just want to be cognizant if they have to cut back to, you know, the Gordon Batten finish is probably going to be the more expensive finish at this point, because we are going to try to go with a true one-inch siding as opposed to something that's simply off the shelf at three quarters, which is the norm.
That's going to be a little bit more expensive than the pre-cut claps and shingles, although they're up there in cost.
[Theresa Dupont]: This sounds like we have a preference of the board in Batten, I guess.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Yeah, I think that's great.
[Patricia Brady]: I think so. I think that's the way to go.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: All right, great. I can put together some final renderings for next time so that you guys get to see it. And we'll have something a little bit more complete.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Excellent. The original siding, when you move that forward, I moved a garage. I moved a barn. Unfortunately, it was 20 years ago. And when we moved it, the siding had been put on with it all settled and everything. So when you move this and the siding that's on it now, there's no way the duds can even... be able to stand.
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: The structural engineer came out, and he was looking for a sill, and he's like, oh, there is no sill. He goes, if there was one, it's gone. And the building has sort of just sort of been eaten, slowly dissolving into the ground, I would say, for lack of a better term. We have to put a foundation underneath it once more and build it sort of back up to what it was originally. And then from there, the engineer was like, yeah, we're going to very delicately move this building forward. And there's nothing on the ground level to support it. So it's all going to be done basically from the second story flying over. It'll be an interesting thing to watch.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: It is a very interesting thing to watch. I've done it once and I very much enjoyed it. I'd love to do it again.
[Patricia Brady]: Is there a timetable when this is going to take place?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: If we get our construction drawings and all the approvals by next month, maybe 30 days for permit to be in the ground by May, and then I could imagine it being between three and four months of construction. So wrapping up by the end of the year, hopefully. That's contingent on the ground thawing and the snow disappearing. all those other unpredictable things that keep happening to us. So, you know, I would say at the latest, you know, they'll be, you know, if all goes according to plan, late fall, early winter by next year being done or this year being done.
[Theresa Dupont]: So we should anticipate a certificate of appropriateness application to consider for this for next month because I don't think we've officially reviewed it. We've had these informal presentations, but that'll be the... Yeah, there'll be definitely something of substance there. Perfect. Okay.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: Excellent. Excellent. All right. Well, if that's all, Ryan, we can move on to the next topic, which is just approving the meeting minutes from December.
[Theresa Dupont]: Which I didn't get a chance to circulate those, so we'll have to bump that to our March meeting. And for that, I apologize, everybody. I need to be better about meeting minutes. I was hoping to get them out on Monday, but it's been under the weather. So I apologize. I'll get those out for next meeting. Did Ryan already leave?
[Vice Chair Ryan Hayward]: Or are you just, okay. No, I just, thanks all.
[Theresa Dupont]: Thank you, Ryan. I think that that's it that we have.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: So if someone wants to make a motion to adjourn.
[Peter Miller]: Motion to adjourn.
[MCM00001828_SPEAKER_03]: I'll make a motion to adjourn. Excellent. So we'll have a vote to adjourn. James? Yes. Charlotte? Yes. And I vote yes as well. So meeting's adjourned and we'll be, we'll see you on the, we'll hopefully see you on the 12th of March or Wednesday, May 25th. You're right. Stay warm everybody. Yes. Take care.
[Patricia Brady]: All right.
[Peter Miller]: Thank you.