AI-generated transcript of Medford City Council Committee Of The Whole 04-26-22

[Adam Hurtubise]: Vice President Bears. Councilor carry yellow. Councilor Collins, present Councilor Knight, present Councilor Scarpelli.

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Tseng, did say he was going to be late.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay. President morale.

[Nicole Morell]: meeting is called to order. There will be a meeting of the Metric City Council Committee of the whole on Tuesday, April 26, 2022 at 6pm. The purpose of the meeting on paper 22.012 is to review proposed updates to the Metric City Council rules. For further information, aids and accommodations contact the city clerk at 781-393-2425. Sincerely yours, Nicole Morell, Council President. So this is a reconvening of a meeting to review a number of suggestions that the rules and ordinances subcommittee made. We reported out a number that we all agreed upon two weeks ago. and voted those in, and now this is just the remaining items that were of contention, which is the potential to move to biweekly or a different schedule of regular meetings, as well as, I believe, language around virtual attendance. Thank you. So I'm actually gonna pass it off to Vice President Bears, unless any other councilors wanna speak first, who's the chair of that subcommittee and who promised some updated language for the council to review.

[Zac Bears]: Sure, just give me one minute, actually, my apologies.

[Nicole Morell]: surveyors is getting set up to screen share.

[Unidentified]: The council was delivered a hard copy of the suggested language changes to review as well.

[Zac Bears]: Mr. Clerk, if you could make me a co-host.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Absolutely. Thank you.

[Zac Bears]: Sorry, give me just one more second here.

[Unidentified]: Councilor Beres is just getting set up. Councilor Beres.

[Zac Bears]: So at the end of our meeting on April 12th, there was a motion to request that I provide draft language regarding virtual participation, online posting of meeting materials and moving to bi-weekly regular meetings. I have sent that around last week through the clerk and I will share that here. So this would, replace, and some of it comes from also from paper 22-010, some of this language. But essentially it would replace the rule two meetings with this updated language. This first sentence, regular meetings of the city council shall be held every two weeks on Tuesday evening at 7 p.m. beginning on the first Tuesday in January. So that would be the move to bi-weekly. Then it says meetings of the committee of the whole shall be scheduled by the council president. Meetings of subcommittees shall be scheduled by the subcommittee chairperson. Scheduling preference for meetings of committees and subcommittees shall be Tuesday and Wednesday evenings beginning at 6 p.m. And then maintains the current language regarding emergency meetings. Some minor updates to this following sentence to reflect that we have subcommittees and to reference the council rules that are regarding participation of petitioners, residents, and members of the public. then it adds a paragraph here. All meetings of the City Council shall include an option for virtual participation through a video conferencing platform. Members, residents, petitioners, and interested parties shall be provided with the necessary information to access this platform and participate virtually. However, members shall make every reasonable attempt to attend meetings in person. Then we, following that, added a sentence that materials provided to the members of the city council shall be posted on the city website at the same time as meeting agendas, except those materials deemed private or otherwise requiring review by the city solicitor. And then it maintains the rest of the section regarding records and regarding that the city council may at any meeting by majority vote discontinue a future meeting. And then I added at the end, this is just a suggestion for me, that these updates would become effective on September 1st. So we would continue under the current meeting regime until September 1st of this year.

[Andrew Castagnetti]: Can I ask a question about that?

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Knight.

[Adam Knight]: What's the point of that? If we're gonna change it, let's just change it. You know what I mean? I don't understand why they implement the delay know, four or five months I guess what would be the thought process behind that notification to the public.

[Zac Bears]: My thought process was yes one kind of giving time for transition for notification of the public to understand that we're moving to a new schedule. do have upcoming, a number of meetings that have already been scheduled, budget season, the summer schedule, this would give us time to kind of close out this first half of the year under the current rules and then start up again in the fall under a new set of rules. That was just my thinking. I'm certainly open to suggestions or alternatives.

[Adam Knight]: I mean, the common where you'd see it, it would be like 90 days after passage, it becomes effective, right? So where are we now? Yeah, so it'd be about the same thing anyway, right? I think roughly, yeah. If it passed tonight, 90 days would bring us right around the end of August.

[Zac Bears]: Right, and my thinking was just that instead of having it be 90 days, let's just start it at the beginning of a month. And so, you know, we're not starting it at August 25th or August 16, but to start say September onward, we'll be under this new meeting schedule.

[Unidentified]: Thank you, Madam President.

[Richard Caraviello]: In going over these, I don't have a problem with the bulk of them, I agree with a lot of them there. As I've said in the past, I don't agree with the twice a month meetings. When I ran for election, and everybody else in this room ran for election, not one person said that on any of the debates or anything we had, that this council was going to change. to a twice a month meeting. This is what the people are paying us for is to meet every week, not meet twice a week and sit here until 10, 11 o'clock at night and start making bad decisions at 11 o'clock. Our average meeting runs till nine o'clock or later. So if we're going to start doubling up on meetings, we're going to be sitting here at 11 o'clock, And people that have jobs in the morning and say, I got to get up in the morning, I want to get out of here. And that's when bad decisions are made, when we're here longer than we're supposed to be. And that's one of the biggest reasons that this council should not go to twice a month, because there's just too much stuff happening. Yes, granted, do we have some short meetings? I give you that, but yeah. The public is asking for more for their tax dollars, not less. So I'd like to amend this, that the city council take a 50% cut in pay for everyone who votes this, because as I say, I ran as a full-time Councilor, not as a twice a month Councilor. And again, this is not what the people asked for, and this is not what the people were told they were voting for when they voted for us in November. So again, And if this does pass tonight, I don't want this, these rules shouldn't take effect until the end of this term, because hey, this is how we were elected. We were elected to be here every week, not twice a month. So again, and I say, I wanna put down the form of motion that the city council salary be cut 50% to reflect this meeting twice a month.

[George Scarpelli]: I'll second that. Madam President, if you can.

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Scarpelli and then Councilor Collins.

[George Scarpelli]: Thank you. I think that the debate between councils to look into this change, it's something that we respect and I know we'll agree to disagree on many items. I think that most of these changes I agree on, but I think that when we move to bi-weekly meetings, again, I'm gonna reiterate, We have the only forum that constituents can come here and express a concern or an issue that comes across their daily lives in the city of Medford, and we're eliminating that. In such a contentious climate lately, to have something that could be easily addressed at the podium, and then have to fester for weeks before a constituent can speak. I just think it just adds to that contention. And I think that it's important that we understand that the major piece that was mentioned over and over again last meeting was that it allows this council to have more subcommittee meetings on those odd Tuesdays. That I just don't, that doesn't make sense at all. We know we all work hard. We understand that. But when we were elected, that's what we were elected for. We were elected to answer the phone at 10 o'clock at night. We were elected to answer the phone at six in the morning. We're also elected to be here every Tuesday night in these seats so people can come to that podium. No one has talked about changing anything with subcommittees on a Monday, or a Wednesday, or a Thursday, or Friday, or committees of the holes that we've had on Saturday mornings that worked very, very well. So to ask for this change, I think it's a drastic negative change for this body. Negative, drastic change that truly doesn't need to be had. When we look at what we do, and I agree with everything we said, we're doing so many positive things in subcommittee and we're moving so much along and it's such a benefit and we're moving in a great direction. But to say that eliminating two public meetings a month, so we can then entertain more subcommittee meetings, that's not true.

[Adam Knight]: It's a point of information that subcommittee meetings are public and public meetings as well.

[George Scarpelli]: Subcommittee meetings are to address counts at night. I agree it's a public meeting, but that podium at one point to two points during the evening on a Tuesday night every Tuesday night, the people have the ability to come up on speak any about any issue concern they have. And on a Tuesday night that we now gonna revert to a subcommittee meeting, they do not have that option council night. And that's what I'm saying. And we can have those meetings in any other night. We can have subcommittee meetings before committee meetings on Tuesdays. We've done that. We're doing a committee of the whole meeting right now before a regular meeting. So to say that we could do so much more by taking away is wrong. That's misleading. And I find it disheartening that we were actually even considered doing that. So again, I'm gonna concur with Councilor Caraviello. Because I think maybe we have had some very good movement meetings and, and there are also some meetings that were short, and we tend to forget those long dragged out meetings that we've had. And now he's right, we're going to combine those meetings, I will tell you all publicly, if we move to two nights. and the meeting goes to 11 o'clock and we have through the agenda, I will not, I will honestly tell you, I will get up, I will get up and I will leave because any decision I will make, I'm up at 5.30 in the morning, any decision we're gonna be sitting there to discuss or deliberate something's very, very concerning to the constituents, the city of Medford after 11 o'clock, will not, will not. be looked at at the light that it deserves to be looked at. So I will not entertain it. I will tell you right now, I will leave at 11 o'clock if we do make that move, and that's not a threat. I'm just letting you know. I'm being proactive and honest and upfront.

[Richard Caraviello]: One information, Councilor Stephanie, 11 o'clock is even way too late. That's even late.

[George Scarpelli]: 10 the max, we should be out of here. We know we've had meetings that have that have lasted longer than that council. So what I'm saying is, there are so many, there are so many cons to this, this initiative that I can't see where the only pro that was given that that last meeting was that more subcommittees will allow us to do more work. That's wrong. That's wrong. We all know that we can do more subcommittees on other days. And yes, we have families, and yes, we do have lives, and yes, we have full-time jobs, but we were elected to do this. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Collins.

[Kit Collins]: Thank you very much, President Morell. I'm going to largely reiterate the points that I made last time and I just like to say upfront I really appreciate all of the discussion that we've been able to have around this. I see this as you know an issue where you know as with many other issues or hope that we can in a friendly and respectful way. I agree to disagree I I'm, I'm in favor of trying this change I'm in favor of going to bi weekly meetings. Like I said last time I'll just reiterate. I, I'm really eager to see more room in our weekly schedule for subcommittees and I know I don't want to ignore. You know the important point that councillor Scarpelli just made that point as well taken, I think, for me, I think that there's a value to having council meetings be predictably on Tuesdays and Wednesdays for city staff for the you know that percentage of constituents that are very involved, I think it's important to have a couple days a week where they know okay if I want to be involved, it's going to be on those days. That's just where I'm coming from and thinking that there's a value to keeping with a consistent schedule for what days of the week that we hold meetings. you know, thinking back on conversations that I had with residents before I took office, you know, since I've been in office, you know, I know that some people take great value of being able to address our body in person on Tuesday nights. I also know that, you know, there's more conversations for me that come to mind with residents saying, why aren't we seeing faster action on this? Why aren't we getting to this issue? When are you going to take that up? I've had conversations with residents saying, you know, when am I going to be able to participate in a meeting about you know, name any ordinance and I feel, you know, a little, I guess a little chagrined, a little embarrassed every time I have to say, you know, hopefully sometime in June or that meeting is three weeks from now, that subcommittee is three weeks from now because we have so much queued up. You know, I think for me, it's a matter of what function of, you know, our work as a council are we emphasizing. For me, you know, I wanna see how much we, how much work product we can accumulate by the end of this term. And of course, none of this work happens in a vacuum. I hope that, you know, for myself, I know this is going to encourage me to double down on reminding everybody that I'm in contact with of all of the other ways to get in contact with me, all of the other opportunities they have for giving feedback to their Councilors, because obviously that's incredibly important. We want to make that accessible to all of our constituents. But at the same time, you know, that's where my calculus comes down. I want us to free up more time for doing that work in subcommittees to have more policies, more ordinances to show for our work at the end of the term. And I just say that by way of explanation for why I'm going to vote in favor of this. And before I stop talking, I just wanna say, I would like to see some more discussion about the one meeting per month in July and August. I've heard from several residents who feel that we'd be better served by more meetings over the summer. So I'd like to, consider maybe adding a second meeting, if not in both July and August, then maybe one or the other. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Collins. Before I go to Councilor Caraviello, Mr. Clerk, Councilor Tseng has arrived, if you can mark him as present.

[Richard Caraviello]: Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Council Collins for your. You know, I don't have a problem meeting more if you know if we need to be more in the summer. I don't, you know, that's not a, that's not an issue for me. And as we've seen in the past, our summer meetings are generally light, because department heads on here a lot of people on here, a lot of stuff doesn't get done some but we need to have a second meeting. end of summer, I certainly have no problem with that. I was the one that added, when I first came on this council, we only met once in September and I was the one that, during my presidency, I was the one that added the extra meetings in September. So that's something I did. I can say, I'm not looking to meet less, again. But when Councilor Scarapelli made it, this is the forum where people come to speak. So you're gonna have people sitting in this audience come in here at seven o'clock and sitting here until 10, 11 o'clock at night. And people sitting on Zoom, gonna be sitting there and they're gonna lose interest. They're gonna say, I can't sit here until 10 o'clock at night. I gotta go to work in the morning. Again, all this is is another form of censure. If we want to turn into the school committee, don't look over there at him. We're not going to be the school committee here. We're going to hear the people and we're not going to censure. We're not going to censure people in this community. This is a form of censure. It is.

[Zac Bears]: People want to be... I have the floor. Point of information, Madam President. Thank you, Madam President. I don't think that's appropriate. I don't think that's a fair.

[Richard Caraviello]: People sitting here all night is a form of censure. People have got to go to work.

[Zac Bears]: People sitting here for 15 minutes because we congratulate two people and then adjourn a meeting is a form of censure itself. I think you're going to see more engaged members of the public because we don't have more people here in a single night.

[Richard Caraviello]: Where are we going to see more members of the public here at 10 o'clock at night? OK? People go to work in the morning. I'm aware. All right, again, this body was elected to meet every Tuesday, and this is where the people come on the Tuesday nights, not every other week. All it is, is we want to hold people back from speaking. Yeah, I know.

[George Scarpelli]: Well, there goes that Council Collins. Well, what you said earlier, is that we could respect each other to degree to disagree I agree. But you made two points that I wanted to make bring forth that that people that when you knocked on their doors explain that, you know, having, having a an issue come to the forefront. Well, you're taking that away from other people that want that every single Tuesday night that's one. The second thing you said it's embarrassing that we had when a constituent asked you when an issue is going to be brought up, and we talked about, it's tough when you have to say oh in a few weeks, hopefully, I agree I don't disagree with you. If that's the case, then let's work with our council president. Like I said in the past, she has done an amazing job with putting out posts and when we're meeting and in organizing those meetings. But I have yet to see a subcommittee on a Thursday. I have yet to see a subcommittee on a Monday. I have yet to see a subcommittee on a Friday and I've yet to see a subcommittee on a Saturday. I could see if we exhausted those avenues And then we need to say if we're doing that much on those days, then let us look at moving those Tuesdays and making that an option. Or maybe three meetings a month and then doing one for subcommittees. Maybe that. But we're making a drastic move. We're making a drastic change. that maybe the way Councilor Cabral presented was wrong. The phone calls I got were that other bodies in this community that were elected Constituents used to have the right to be able to express themselves about our government making decisions that affected them, whether we believe in that movement or not, or whether we believe in the constituents ideas or ideologies is irrelevant. This is a public forum. The only public forum we have left in our city government that someone could come to this podium every single Tuesday and express any concerns they have about the way they live in this city of Medford. So if they feel, and I got the same phone calls and they use those same words, if they feel that that's a form of censorship, who am I to say that you shouldn't feel that way? We're taking away two open meeting times that they can speak here if this is voted this evening. And again, I'm gonna say it again, for the only purpose that was stated, we do so much great work with subcommittees that we need to eliminate. No, we could do great work by adding, add those days. And listen, believe me, I have two full-time jobs. I have two children. I have a home I take care of. I'd like to have a social life, but this is our job. This is what we were elected for. This is why 13,000 people came out to vote last time. to make that decision. Now, realistically, if people came out and said that Council Scarpelli last November wants to change the meetings to two days a week, I don't think I would get as many votes as I did that day. And that's what has been expressed to me by constituents. So, you know, maybe the presentation's wrong and it's getting contentious and we don't want that, because I truly believe in Councilor Collins. You're right, we all have the ability to agree to disagree. I understand that. But the expression or the frustration that comes out is that you all voted for it, you all presented that, the five of the councilors had expressed that they liked the idea to go to two meetings, so you didn't get the phone calls, you didn't get the emails. I know I did, and from what I was heard, is that Councilor Caraviello got emails and phone calls, many. So this is all we're doing, is expressing what they've told us, how they feel. And to be honest with you, I don't disagree. We're here, we were elected to work. If the work is gonna take us five days a week, that's what we're elected to do. But to eliminate days so we can fit in subcommittees, subcommittee meetings, that's a cop-out. So thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Vice President Bears.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Madam President. Number one, we worked very hard and diligently to protect and reach unanimous consensus on public participation at our regular meetings. I think there are people who wish that the rules look differently than they look. And I'll leave it at that, that we discussed it in subcommittee and what came out at the end of the process was not exactly what we had discussed in subcommittee. So the idea that we don't wanna have a public forum for people to speak is false. We just passed rules that enshrine that, that improve that, that codify that, that put that into our council rules in a way that has never been in them before, providing for public comment, providing extra time on petitions from utilities, a bunch of different stuff that adds public participation and engagement to the work that we do. So that's one thing. I'll say the second thing. I think I probably had five to 10 things that I put on last term where I wanted to have a committee meeting and that committee meeting never got scheduled. And I said, well, what about a Monday? What about a Thursday? And people just said, it's not what we do. We can't schedule that. People aren't gonna be able to come. People aren't gonna be able to make it. Okay, well, that's what I was told last term when there's a bunch of meetings that I would have liked to have that never happened. So while I certainly personally wouldn't mind that, I don't think that this council or the staff of this city, you know, is going to be able to make that happen on a regular basis where we meet three or four or five days a week. We can do it on occasion. We did it on a few Saturdays. That was great. I think we did one or two on Mondays, but I just, it wasn't, I was told that it wasn't gonna happen. So that's when it comes to meeting multiple days a week. That's what I had heard. At the end of the day, We get a lot more work done in our committees of the wholes and our subcommittee meetings where we have substantive discussions on ordinances and Massachusetts general law and whatever else we may be discussing than we do in our regular meetings. Many of our regular meetings are pro forma. We look at the agenda, we know what's gonna happen. There's not gonna be much discussion. We're not gonna be able to add an item or discuss a new item. So they go for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, an hour, an hour and a half. We have to schedule subcommittee meetings on Tuesday nights right now. From 5.30 to seven, we have to close off discussions, schedule a second meeting because we hit seven o'clock. We have to pick topics based on what we think is gonna be the shortest topic to discuss because we don't wanna go over time. That's the current situation. This is an attempt to try something new. If you look at any comparative city or you look at a city 10 times our size in this region, nobody meets weekly like we do. There's not a ton of cities across this state meeting weekly and regular meetings because they're having subcommittees and committees of the whole and public hearings under a different set of procedures. They're still meeting. They're still meeting two, three, four times a week. They're just getting more done. I'd like to see us try it. If next October, if in October, it's been a disaster, I'll own it. I have no problem admitting that I've made a mistake. I have no problem doing it. I think that's one reason that people voted for me to be on this council is because I'll say, if I think something went wrong, I'll come out and I'll say it. And a lot of people voted for me. So I'll leave it at that. I've had a lot of discussions with people far before the last election, last year, two years ago, even before my first election saying, why do you do things the way that you do them? Maybe there's a different approach that you could take that would get things done faster. That's the intent here. That's the reason I support this. It's the reason I'm gonna vote for it tonight. Again, I agree that we can have differences of opinion on this. I will be the first person to make a proposal to reverse this change. If I think that it's been a detriment to this council or to the city, I will be the first person to do it. I'll co-sponsor it with Rick and George. Well, you know, we're not perfect. No, no one is perfect. No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't think this is a mistake, but I'm the first person to say, and be direct and honest that if something happens, I'll happily correct it. I don't think that's going to happen here. I think we're going to see a highly productive council that gets a lot done, that moves faster, that meets the pace of progress and accomplishment that this community demands of us. And that's what I'm going to support this. Thank you.

[Adam Knight]: I just think that historically, looking back to the work product that this council has been able to put out and where we've been able to do it, we've been able to do it through the committee process. That's where we've been able to make a difference. We don't make a difference on Tuesday nights. On Tuesday nights at the council meetings, that's political theater. 99% of the time, 99% of the time it's for the cameras. We're in subcommittee. We're a committee of the whole, we're getting the work done. We got our nose to the grindstone. We're getting it done. I just think that it's a better use of our time if we're going to be sitting down speaking about substantive issues that are within council purview. I mean, if the idea is to keep meetings every Tuesday night so that people can come up and complain about the mayor and what the mayor is not doing, that's not what we're here for. You know, I don't, I don't think that we're the complaint department to listen to what's going on with the administration. I don't think that's what we have for it all. We have the ability to perform. We've shown that we can perform when we're given the tools. And when we use this subcommittee and committee of the whole process, we put out great work. That's what's worked for us. That when we look back historically and we've seen where we've been successful and where we've succeeded, it's when we've gone through that process. So it's a better use of our time and it's a better value to the residents of this community than it is for us to come up here on a Tuesday night and stare at each other and play political theater. Because let's be honest, that's what we do. All right. There's a lot of political theater that goes on in that room. I'm not there today. If I were, I'd say this room. and I'm guilty of it just as much as anybody else. We've all done it, we all do it, all right? Now I heard votes, the people that voted for me, the number of votes I got. This isn't about votes, all right? This isn't about votes at all. I never take a vote on an issue that's before me as a city councilor thinking of the number of votes that I'm gonna get or lose because of it. I think about the issue that's before me and whether or not it makes a difference for this community and whether or not it helps move it forward. And usually if you think that way, the votes come with it. Because you're thinking Medford first community first and moving this community forward. So, you know, when I look at this and I say I ran for city council, I didn't run for city council to be there every Tuesday night. I ran for city council to be a city councilor. I ran for city council to make a positive change in my community. And I feel as though based upon my 10 years of experience that I've had on this council. The 10 years that I've had an experience on this council has shown me that when we go through the committee process is where we make the most impact and the most change. And number one, and number two, it allows us the opportunity to hash out a lot of the stuff that turns into political theater when we hit the floor. Now, I know Councilor Scarpelli, you know, says we should meet Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays and Thursdays and Fridays and Saturdays and Sundays. And it's easy for him to say, but it's not easy for him to do. It's not easy for any of us to do. It's not easy for any of us to do. He has two full time jobs. I have three full time jobs. I have two kids that are in elementary school. All right. But I still do my best to make the meetings and I still do my best to do the job. And I think we all do. I don't think anybody's slacking. I don't think anybody's sleeping at the switch. You know, so when I look at this, I look at this as a reform, a reform for us to be a more successful body and to put our time, energy and efforts where we've shown we've been successful. And it's for those reasons that I'm going to support this. I don't disagree with my colleagues having an opinion. I think that that's great that they can have an opinion. I think that it's not necessarily what I'm in line with this evening. And I too think that, you know, is it a drastic change? No, not really. It's not really a drastic change. It's not really a drastic change because we're still going to have the same number of opportunities for people to come to the public forum. The only issue is when they come to the public forum on those off weeks, they're talking about the items that are on our agenda and the items that we're talking about. They're not talking about items that have shown where the administration's failing. Because nine times out of 10, that's what our public participation is. The mayor's office did this. We can't get this done. We can't get that done. Right? It's stuff that falls outside the scope and purview of the council's duties, responsibilities 99% of the time. So while I understand what the council is coming from is saying that this is the last forum that people have in this community, I get it. But 99% of the time when this forum is utilized, the comments aren't directed at this body and this body is in a position where we can't even fix it other than make recommendations to the mayor that go ignored. And that's been the same old song and dance for 29 years or 30 years. So why not do something different? Why not see if we can change things to change the culture?

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Knight.

[Adam Knight]: You can never be, you can never be, you can never hurt to try is what I'm saying.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Scarpelli.

[George Scarpelli]: Thank you, Madam President. And again, for one, I wasn't one of those councils that said that I couldn't or wouldn't meet on certain days because that's how we do things. I've never heard that in my life here. Both of the council or in the school committee, I've always made sure I was there when asked to make initiative move forward. I could see if we did that, and we historically had seen that there was no movement there, that we couldn't hold subcommittees on other days. If I saw that, I would say, sure, let's see a change. But we haven't even attempted that, haven't even tried that. And to say that, I'm shocked the council would use political theater, call it what you may, Subtracting two means you're subtracting two times that constituents come to that podium. Now granted, if eight out of 10 of those people come there just to vent or use what's quoted as political theater, it's political theater. But for that one or two constituent, the person that comes up to say something that needs to be said, this is what we're here for. This is the option, the only option. in this community on a weekly basis. So again, to say that the possibility of subtracting two meetings and changing the format will have some sort of increase of community participation is an absolute joke. That's not happening. That's not happening. So to make a change for the sake of change, I think it's wrong. I think we're taking away two very important meeting nights that this council has to do the city's business and allow the city's constituents to come here and make that decision. And believe me, everything we do, Everything we vote, every time we open our mouths has something to do with the vote, Mr. Councilor Knight. You know that as well as I do. Everything we do. So, like I said, I respect everybody's opinion. I understand the action, why it's being made in comment, but I'll only ask my colleagues this. take a step back, set the agenda for the next few months, a few weeks or a month that we're doing the city's business of subcommittees on other days, like Mondays or Wednesdays, and see if we could still do the work of the city that has so moved you all, and still have the ability to leave that podium open on a Tuesday night, every Tuesday night, and see where we go from there. If it doesn't work, then I would make the change. But until we see that, I just think it's a mistake. But again, this is why we have seven votes and we have the opinion to agree to disagree. So thank you and respectfully to everybody's opinion, whether we irritated each other or not for our opinions, It's, it's truly respectful, you know, it's banter. I know that Zach and I will probably have an arm wrestle in a minute in the back. So thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: No, no tickets, private.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Madam President. I was going to actually ask Councilor Collins if she had a proposal regarding summer meetings. So I will defer to Councilor Collins.

[Kit Collins]: Thank you, I was just going to bring that up. Yes, I would like to propose an amendment for an additional meeting to be added in July or August. So to total three meetings over the course of July or August to be scheduled at the council leadership's discretion.

[Adam Knight]: For information, Madam President.

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Knight.

[Adam Knight]: I thought it was my understanding based upon the discussion that if the meetings were going to go to biweekly that the summer schedule was just going to fall biweekly as well.

[Kit Collins]: That was my understanding as well, but it looks like in the text, it still has one meeting in July and August, unless I'm incorrect.

[Nicole Morell]: It doesn't reflect that. So, Commissioner Bears, or Councilor Collins, what would your preferential amendment be? I mean, it sounds like there is support for just keeping the biweekly through the summer.

[Kit Collins]: Yeah, thank you for asking. Well, I guess my preference would be to maintain the bi-weekly schedule year round, so there's no exception for July and August, perhaps with the exception that, you know, if there's really nothing on the agenda for July or August, we can, you know, nix one of those meetings, but of course that's under the authority of the council leadership to do it anytime, anyway. So that would be my preference to stick with the bi-weekly meeting year round.

[Adam Knight]: Council meeting would require a vote of the council if the rules say it shall be held.

[Kit Collins]: Okay, I stand corrected.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Collins. So we have a few motions on the floor. We have the motion by Councilor Caraviello, seconded by Councilor Scarpelli to cut the City Council's salaries by 50%. What's the remaining language? If the meetings go to biweekly? Councilor Caraviello? Sorry? You had a motion to cut the City Council's salary by 50% if the meetings go to biweekly?

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Nicole Morell]: That's seconded by Councilor Scarpelli. Mr. Clerk, do you have that language?

[Adam Hurtubise]: Now, President, I have a motion for Councilor Pluriello to cut council salaries by 50% if meetings are moved to bi-weekly. And I have a second from Councilor Scarpelli.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. Could you please call the roll?

[George Scarpelli]: Go. OK. Vice President Bears. You're the first vote to go through first, because it's a non-voting right of its.

[Unidentified]: OK.

[Adam Knight]: It's an amendment to the main paper, so the amendments come first, right?

[Nicole Morell]: I'm sorry, Councilor Knight.

[Adam Knight]: It's an amendment to the main paper, so the amendments come first.

[Nicole Morell]: Okay. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll, as this is an amendment and an if statement. Thank you. Your amendment.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay. Vice President Bears. No. Councilor Caraviello. Councilor Collins. No. Councilor Knight. Yes. Councilor Scarpelli.

[George Scarpelli]: Councilor Scarpelli. Mr. Clerk, I still have a question on the question. We're voting on the pay cut, but it's pay cut if the vote is changed. Correct. That was okay I didn't hear that from him. So, yes. Councilor Tseng no.

[Adam Hurtubise]: President morale.

[Nicole Morell]: No, three in the front of four negative emotion fails. I have a motion on the floor.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Madam President, can I have a little bit of time to type this up please.

[Nicole Morell]: He said he does it. I appreciate that because I was going to request that. I know we don't always agree. I work hard to treat you with respect and I apologize if sometimes my head wilts this way. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Unidentified]: I mean, I'm kind of like,

[Nicole Morell]: I think I can turn my head more to the right than I can to the left.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Madam President, I have that typed in, thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Do you have all those apologies, Mr. Clerk?

[Adam Hurtubise]: I did not get those because I was typing up the motion results. I heard them.

[Nicole Morell]: So we have a motion from Councilor Collins to amend the language so that, let's see, how is it?

[Zac Bears]: present just on the screen. Will we just remove this sentence? Councilor Collins, is that the motion?

[Kit Collins]: Yes.

[Nicole Morell]: Yes.

[Zac Bears]: Okay.

[Nicole Morell]: So the motion from Councilor Collins would be to strike the sentence which says there shall only be one meeting during the months of July and August. So the motion would be to delete that sentence. Do I have a second for that motion?

[Unidentified]: Second.

[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, so to delete, so right now it just says one, so it would be to delete that. Mr. Clerk, do you have that language?

[Adam Hurtubise]: Councilor Collins moved to strike the sentence on holding only one meeting for July and August.

[Nicole Morell]: Yes. Please call the roll when you're ready.

[Adam Hurtubise]: I didn't get the second on that. Is that Vice President Bears?

[Nicole Morell]: Vice President Bears.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Hang on a second. Here comes the roll call. Vice President Bears. Yes. Councilor Caraviello. Yes. Councilor Collins. Yes. Councilor Knight.

[Andrew Castagnetti]: No.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Councilor Scarpelli. Yes. Councilor Tseng. Yes. President Morell.

[Nicole Morell]: Yes, 16 in front of one in the negative, the motion passes. Do I have any other motions on the floor? Yeah, Mr. Castagnetti, name and address for the record, please, if you'd like to speak.

[Andrew Castagnetti]: Yes, Andrew Castagnetti, East Bedford, Massachusetts. I want to say City Councilors Caraviello, And Scarpelli makes good sense. After 100 years, why change the rules in the middle of the game? And handicap against the people, especially when your salary is at over $30,000 a year, period. Thank you for listening.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Mr. Casamatti. Mr. Navarre, name and address for the record, please. Yeah, have a go.

[William Navarre]: William Nevaeh, 108 Medford Street, apartment 1B. I like this plan. One of the things I like about it is while it'll free up some time for subcommittee meetings, it'll actually make the meetings closer together in the summer. So sort of, it reduces the maximum amount of time you'll ever have to wait. And so with that in mind, I would just suggest, given that change that I really do support, that Councilor Cowles just suggested, I would suggest you try to make that, maybe there's a good reason not to, but you consider making that apply at the start of the summer. So that way you have the additional meetings starting this summer. Thanks.

[Nicole Morell]: Any further discussion from the public or Councilors? I'm gonna go to Councilor Collins and then I'll go back to you, Eileen.

[Kit Collins]: Thank you, President Morell. I was just going to, I wanted to thank my fellow Councilors for all of their comments and discussion. Around this piece, I know we had a big divergence in opinion on some aspects of this, but putting all that aside, I really appreciate the fact that we can air our conflicting opinions and talk about it. And that being said, I would motion for approval. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Collins. Eileen Lerner, name and address for the record, please. I will ask you to unmute.

[Ilene Lerner]: My name is Eileen Lerner, 9 out of 10 in Medford. And I just would like to say in response to the question, why change things after 150 years? Why not change things after 150 years? Things might need to be changed. Or at least try to see if they work. I mean... So anyway, I just want to say I'm in favor of going to bi-weekly.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Eileen. Matthew Paige Lieberman, name and address for the record, please. Oh, thank you, sorry. There you go, you should be unmuted now. Did you want to speak, Matthew? I see your hand up. We will try again in a moment. Any further discussion from the Council?

[Zac Bears]: Motion to report. Oh, sorry, Councilor Tseng.

[Justin Tseng]: I just wanted to take a step back, wanted all of us to take a step back, you know, parts of this meeting got contentious. But I think this type of discussion is, you know, within respectful bounds is necessary for a healthy democracy. It's important for all of our supporters and all of all the people on any side of this issue to see that we have that they have a voice here in City Hall. Um, for me, you know, at the last meeting, I said I was leaning towards one option that, um, that I found arguments for the other side compelling. And I still, you know, I still find arguments on both sides compelling, but I, it is, you know, this change is something that I think is worth experimenting with. I've talked to people who live in the city who don't pay super close attention to our meetings, but are just as affected by the work that we do here in this chamber. And, you know, after you know after I explained the situation they got it. And, you know, we're not reducing any public meetings we're adding it we actually with this with this with Councilor Collins amendment are actually adding meetings in the summer. And, you know, I've always said, I think. I think my voters at least have expected me to try my best to innovate and try my best experiment and to admit failures, when we come by them but to at least try. And this is one of those examples where I think it, I would regret it. if we didn't try. And, you know, if we get it wrong, then I think it will be up to us who voted who who vote yes tonight to admit that we were wrong. But also, I mean, I don't I really don't care if someone if Councilors voted no say I told you so. I mean, this is for me, it's just about a vote about what I what I think is right. And what I think can get the most productivity and the most work done out of this chamber. I understand that there's a fear that some of our meetings may go long. But, you know, I think if most of my work as a Councilor is being, if most of my energy is being shifted towards those subcommittee meetings, committee of the whole meetings, you know, that's where my energy is going to be. you know, for a lot of those general meetings, I think that will make those meetings shorter. But if there is a problem, right, if there is a concern that the public participation section gets shoved to the end of a general meeting, then we can always motion to take it out of order. I mean, it's something that we've done before, something that we can do again. This is a power of our chamber, and we have councillors, we have seven councillors who can do that. And, you know, if the agenda looks long and if there if there are people waiting in the audience we can always take something out of order and. know, again, this is this to me is about productivity. It's about where my energy should be, you know, I've passed resolutions in this chamber, asking committees to meet on issues that voters have been talking to me about for forever. And we haven't been able to schedule those meetings yet, because our calendar doesn't work that way. And while we could add meetings on other days of the week, we also have to be aware that our That's a big demand on the part of our constituents and their time. That's a big demand on the city hall workers, their staff here and their time. And, you know, our attendance for subcommittee meetings is not Even when we limit them to Tuesday and Wednesday, it's not always perfect. And everyone actually does have a reason. But I think we'll see more of that if we do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And so we have to be careful with how we schedule meetings. And we have to be aware that all of us are busy people. All of us have different responsibilities. including people who aren't sitting here in this chamber, who aren't Councilors, who work with the council to help us get stuff done. And so Those are just some of my kind of thoughts for tonight. I've left my inboxes open. I mean, they're still open. They're open 365 days a week, 24 seven. And I've heard from people on both sides of this issue and in fostering healthy conversations with them. This is the vote tonight. How I vote tonight is where I've come down. Um and I hope that um residents understand. I'm sure they will given the conversations I've already had. Um but really, again, to me, this is about productivity. It's about getting the best product and out of the city council. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, councilor. Uh sure.

[George Scarpelli]: Just one comment. I I hope we're all clear on this though that we shouldn't mislead anybody. We do vote to go to two meetings a month. We are eliminating the opportunity for constituents to speak to this council in an open forum. So to say that we're not doing that is wrong. Make sure we understand that. By not having this meeting on every Tuesday night, and whether it's political theater or not, We're hindering the opportunity for constituents to be here every Tuesday night. So if you have four meetings a month, so we subtract two, that only gives them two meetings a month. So yes, we are limiting them from having participation to our forum on their concerns. So I just wanna make sure we understand that. Again, we all agree to disagree, but Make sure we all understand that, that is the truth. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: I have a few hands up on Zoom, moving to Matthew on Zoom. Thank you, Councilor Scarpelli.

[Matthew Page-Lieberman]: Yeah, I want to speak in support of Councilors Caraviello and Scarpelli. I really, I don't imagine that there's any possibility that, you know, that what I will say will swing the vote in the opposite direction. However, I do really appreciate what they said and really bringing attention to some, you know, these issues. I think we should always experiment with things to be more productive, certainly. And I hope that you know this change does bring upon that you know that better productivity. But I've also observed, you know, through watching this council for many years and I know that there are, you know, there are some Councilors that see the residents, some of us residents as kind of nuisances that get in the way. that prevent the council from being able to be more productive. And I think we should be kind of mindful of these sentiments. We should consider, I mean, my experience is I know that there are some councillors, they just will not return calls. Some councillors may not return emails for months, if at ever. And then I even had the bad experience of at least one councillor who simply didn't show up to a meeting I had. And I think, you know, we should, you know, be extremely mindful of why you know why we have representative government, and for you know what what purpose, it is when we elect people. And, you know, in the, in the last, I attended a previous rules meeting. And which I won't give any names but I mean there was there was one Councilor who was very angry that I was asking to see a copy of you know the material that was being discussed, I was told that this is a member of the rules committee that. David Shonnard, PB – He, Him, His.: : He is not putting on a TV show it's as if as if myself a resident is just there in order to be entertained and not hoping to follow you know what the Council is engaged in or have. David Shonnard, PB – He, Him, His.: : were really welcome to have any input another Councilor said that. Oh, and that same Councilor said that the only reason that we are even able, you know, that I'm even allowed to be there is because it's mandated by law with the open meeting law. The only reason that these meetings are even aired. Another Councilor said that the council chair can, according to his or her discretion, decide to not allow the public to even be able to speak at these meetings. It's very unfortunate that many people do not attend these kind of subcommittee meetings. And, you know, I completely agree that, you know, many people will go to these weekly meetings because they will think it's one of the very, very few opportunities in which they can be heard. And, you know, I hope that we have an honest discussion, real honest discussion about what are the ramifications of decreasing the opportunities in which people can be heard by their peers to only half of the time. So yeah, I just very, very much thank you. Thank you to councillors Caraviello and Scarpelli for continuing to advocate, you know, for the public. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Matthew. Chair Ndeyesa, name and address for the record, please. You're not unmuted just yet. You just need to hit the button. One more time, you should see a little pop up

[Sharon Deyeso]: Okay, I'm fine, thank you. Nice to see everyone tonight. I was always hoping that we would be doing more constructive things and our time spent hours and hours over some of these rule changes. However, it's here. May I ask originally whose motion this was?

[Nicole Morell]: President Beares?

[Zac Bears]: That was my motion, thank you. I can't I can't see you I'm sorry I didn't hear who that was president bears, although it had been brought up previously under previous councils by different Councilors than myself.

[Sharon Deyeso]: Okay. what the purpose was. I mean, all these years it's been consistent. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's bad. I've given it some thought. Our biggest advocate on public speaking, our dear Dr. John Stirella, who we lost last week, would be abashed by this consideration. However, I'm just speaking for him for a moment. So, Vice President Pierce, where did this notion come from? You know, all of a sudden, I was just wondering, I don't know if you have previous city experience. I don't know you that well, but I thank you for your time.

[Zac Bears]: While I do believe comments should be directed to the president, I will say the reason I proposed this item didn't come out of nowhere. It came out of months of discussions and my experience in my first term on the council, as well as reviewing previous attempts to reform and update the council rules. I believe in 2015 and 2016, there have been proposals to change the meeting schedule for many years.

[Sharon Deyeso]: What's your personal outlook on it, sir? I mean, why would you be a proponent of this change?

[Nicole Morell]: And we have, I think, the subcommittee notes as well as the committee as a whole have reflected Councilor Baer's position on this as well as a number of councillors.

[Sharon Deyeso]: Okay, I can look it up. All right.

[Nicole Morell]: I'm going to hear you on our regular meeting time, which part of the argument is okay.

[Sharon Deyeso]: Okay. I will tell you. one adage that goes along and then two big faults that I see in it. When you buy a small business, especially, and you have a little experience, and that business was quite profitable moving along with participation, et cetera, they always say, keep the product and keep the menu. If you don't, strange things can happen. With running a city, which is like running a business, I don't know how many of you on the council are actual homeowners. Sometimes the budgets vary. Sometimes you have to get into a field where you may have to do a little research and we all appreciate your time. But if people are only being able to come twice a month, it may dissuade them because they may not have time the week that the next meeting may be occurring. And I know you've you've said a couple of times that there will be some subcommittee meetings. Some of them are 330 in the afternoon. Some of them are at 530. I think people would either forget about it or break their neck and some of them are not even noted half my neighbors when I tell them just about passing the news along nicely for my neighborhood. they weren't even aware of a couple of law subcommittee meetings going on because they were only focusing on Tuesday night meetings. I think it's a grave, grave mistake. I think we have a lot of work to do that should be made open to the public because we have zoning to be possibly changed and reviewed. We have fees that have not been, I think, reviewed for something like 37 years in this city. Some of it's antiquated. I really rather you go into the time and have the people more advertised to please invite them to listen to, watch, or attend a Tuesday night meeting. I think that you move business along much better. You're going to see people a little bit more active. I think you need to advertise the other product more and not cut these meetings in two. Also, there may be things that you may have to say, well, I may have to put that off until the next time. Somebody else puts up another motion for two weeks, that you know is going to take two hours, and you say, well, maybe next month. There may be very, very big ideas and motions that may get put aside for yourselves and also for the public. I thank you for your time, and have a pleasant week. I vote, if I were voting tonight, I would vote a very strong no, and I support also at least a salary cut if you were going to propose something like this firmly. We will not be able to see you as that often. Most of the public won't. Thank you very much.

[Nicole Morell]: I would also like to note that references to homeownership are irrelevant to comments. I just want to note that. Vice President Bears, and then we're going to go to Kelly.

[Zac Bears]: I just wanted to note that on the idea that city government is run like a business. I don't know that any business is limited from increasing its prices by only two and a half percent per year when inflation is 8%. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Kelly Kosinski, name and address for the record, please. And then we are going to move on to our regular meeting.

[SPEAKER_09]: Kelly Kosinski, 172 Ashcroft Road. I think cutting these meetings doesn't take care of what the city issues are. I feel that MedFed is going downhill. If you just go through MedFed Square, you can see that it needs a lot of help. It's not like it used to be. And I think it needs a lot of help, and cutting these meetings isn't going to take care of these issues. I think it's just going to make things worse. Like the last person said, there's zoning issues that come up and things like that. I think they need to be taken care of. And I think Scarpelli and Kavya were right on track with us. But my main thing to Councilor Collins is, can you explain to me this, that you are saying you want to have fewer meetings but you still wanna get full-time pay. I don't think that's fair because if you work in any job, if you're full-time and you go to part-time, your hours get cut, your pays get cut and you lose your benefits. So could you just clarify that for me, Councilor Collins?

[Nicole Morell]: We're up against a regular meeting time I my request would be that Councilor Collins follows up to you via email or phone call if she was so obliged. Residents here for a regular meeting which starts at seven I appreciate the comments.

[SPEAKER_09]: Alright, so she can answer me. Who can you can you answer me.

[Nicole Morell]: the council discussion that the Councilors aren't paid an hourly rate. It's a, and it's not, it's right.

[Zac Bears]: I can certainly say that I have worked full-time jobs where I have been in meetings that I didn't need to be in, but still receive my pay when those meetings could have been more productive. So I don't think it's a fair analogy. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: And I do just want to note that the references to zoning meetings, those all have to happen. They haven't actually the whole, they happen in subcommittee. There's no meetings that will not happen. Vice President Bears, if you had one.

[Zac Bears]: I would move to report this out to the full council.

[Nicole Morell]: On the motion of Vice President Bears to report out to the full council, second by- As amended, seconded. By Councilor Tseng. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll. just report out in general, because you report out the amendments that are included in this document.

[Adam Hurtubise]: So the motion is to report the paper out as amended to the full council motion by Vice President Bears second by Councilor Tseng Yes. Are you ready for the roll call?

[Nicole Morell]: Yes, please.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Thank you, Vice President Bears. Oh, Council carry on. Oh, okay. Councilor Collins.

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Councilor Knight.

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Councilor Scarpelli. Councilor Scarpelli. Yes. Thank you. Councilor Tseng.

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Adam Hurtubise]: President Morell.

[Nicole Morell]: Yes. Six in favor of one of the negative, the motion passes. We have a motion to adjourn.

[Andrew Castagnetti]: So moved Madam President.

[Nicole Morell]: On the motion of Councilor Knight, seconded by Vice President Bears. To adjourn, Mr. Clerk, please call the roll.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Vice President Bears? Yes. Councilor Caraviello? Yes. Councilor Collins? Yes. Councilor Knight? Yes. Councilor Scarpelli? Yes. Councilor Tseng? Yes. President Morell?

[Nicole Morell]: Yes, I'm in the front of the zero in the negative. The meeting is adjourned. Please give us a moment to reset to start our regular meeting. Thank you.