AI-generated transcript of Medford City Council Committee Of The Whole 09-20-22

[Nicole Morell]: All right, great. All right. 2-0-0-2-0 and 16-6-0-4, Committee of the Whole. Tuesday, September 12th, 2022 at 6 p.m. is called to order. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Vice President Bears. Present. Councilor Caraviello. Present. Councilor Collins.

[Nicole Morell]: Present.

[Adam Hurtubise]: I see Councilor Knight on Zoom.

[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, he's on Zoom. Yeah, I see him.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Councilor Scarpelli? Present. Councilor Tseng? Present. President Morell?

[Nicole Morell]: Present. Seven present, zero absent. The meeting is called to order. There will be a meeting of the Medford City Council Committee of the Whole on Tuesday, September 20th, 2022 at 6 p.m. in the Medford City Council Chamber on the second floor of Medford City Hall. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss a proposed food truck ordinance. Economic Development Director Victor Schrader, Board of Health Director Marion O'Connor, Economic Development Planner Yvette Niwa, and a representative from the Medford Chamber of Commerce have been invited to attend. For further information, aids, and accommodations, contact the city clerk at 781-393-2425. Sincerely yours, Nicole Morell, Council President. So this is a paper that was originally introduced many years ago at this point in 2016. And in 2020, Councilor Knight raised a resolution that was passed to move forward on this ordinance. The current policy in the city is obtaining a one day food license that folks do if they wanna have a food truck for a special event. And this is an opportunity to address an ordinance to see if it's something that the council would like to established different procedures for longer lengths of time or anything like that. We do have draft language that originally came from then Mayor Burke. It's not something we have to adhere to as a council. It's just a document that was submitted the first time this was introduced. So I'm happy to read through that document or just go to our Councilors and see what we'd like to see in an ordinance, as well as of course, hear from the public. Vice President Bears.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Madam President. given the state of legal counsel or lack thereof, I am inclined to at least use this as a base. I'm not married to anything in it, but at least we have something that was written by a city solicitor at some point, and who knows when we'll get that again. My general thoughts around this are, you know, I'd like to hear what other people think. At the very least, I think there's a lot of good stuff in here that we could apply to the one day licenses and special events licenses that we currently put out. You know, there's, I think, at least from what I've seen come before us, this would be a little bit more of a detailed kind of level of reporting that the vendors would have to do through the board of health, making sure that everything is paid up to the city and a variety of other PB, Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Hermon Zuckerman, PB – Hermon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – Harmon Zuckerman, PB – for a separate future conversation after we've passed an ordinance that updates the process, leave any other elements out of it, like more permanent or longer term licenses or that kind of thing. This draft does have that broad scope. It does have a mobile food vendor license that is more than a one day and special event. I think where I am now is I probably want to strike that out and then we can update the process, get the director of health more involved. and move from, and then just to have a more updated process where we're not having people rush around at the last minute, not understanding what their end is just to get something for a special event at a school. I mean, that's just the one negative thing that we've run into so far. So I think that would justify updating the process. Beyond that, I think there's a lot of considerations that we would have to make before we were able to allow food trucks, you know, anywhere for weeks at a time.

[George Scarpelli]: Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Scarpelli.

[George Scarpelli]: Thank you, Madam President. Thank you council bears I think that that's a good point I think that having our food trucks and having a system in place that they have to follow the same guidelines that most of our brick and mortar establishments do but I think that my biggest I think it's I've I've I've said this from the beginning crucified from one food truck vendor that didn't understand the process that I was explaining that especially in the this very difficult time through the pandemic brick and mortar businesses establishments have been suffered pretty pretty extensively and adding a food truck ordinance where allows them to come park right next door to a brick and mortar. I think it'd be absolutely disingenuous for this body to show the support that we have for our brick and mortar businesses and supporting any ordinance that says that allows these, these organizations to come to any of our brick and mortar businesses, you're talking about the, the license the process I like the idea I think that's a great idea. I do think the process we have right now when we're talking about. I also agree that I like the idea of having the one license, the passing of, you know, one day licenses, as long as it doesn't affect our brick and mortars, and not having to come to this council all the time. I think we have qualified people in Victor's office and Victor himself that could, you know, to be able to pass that for special events like we have seen at the McGlynn or the Brooks or Hormel Stadium or whatnot, but when you're talking about events that are happening in in Method Square, let's say, and you have restaurants and establishments that have been fighting to keep their doors open. I think that's where I'm going to hold my line and say that I can't support anything that goes to that level right now. So my commitment is to those businesses that have committed to the city, that follow the rules, that pay their dues, that pay their food taxes, that have to follow everything that this city has given them, whether it's lack of parking or, you know, You know, so I don't want to beat anybody up but I just don't, I just want to make sure that I think Councilor Bears has a good idea where we have this paper that's in front of us that has a very good. protocol in place that holds our vendors, food truck vendors accountable and allowing them a special permit. Those one day permits that as long as it reads that, I know, I believe the mayor, when Mayor Burke did it, if someone could remember, Zach, I don't know if it's in there, but I think it was like 200 feet or 200 yards from a brick and mortar. I wouldn't mind doing that with a special permit request. I don't mind the one day, and I don't mind the fact that they have to answer to somebody. I'll give you an example. When we had a customer come to us, a vendor come to us and ask us for that permit, and I questioned their pricing for the permit. And they were doing it for promoting the school, and at the time, giving families a better choice for dinner. And what they didn't realize is they're abutting our housing projects where families, find it very difficult just to eat what's in their in their cupboards but this vendor came in and took a $7 grilled cheese and made it $12. So the school gets a $5 donation well that doesn't help the family of four that lives across the street that now can't participate in this process. I think that's it was that it was disingenuine I thought it was disrespectful and. And again, I believe, and I hate to say, and I'll say it because I got beat up on social media, that I didn't allow a fundraiser for the Brooks, but by the time that meeting was over, I got a phone call from two brick and mortar businesses, Carroll's and Avellino's that said, George, we'd be glad to put together a menu for those families. that it's affordable for their whole families and give all the proceeds back to their back to the schools for fundraising. So that's what we lack with food trucks. That's the type of community that we lack with given these type of permits for long term. So when we talk about one day permits, I'll support that as long as it doesn't affect brick and mortar. And I'll support the fact that We can put it into hands of our capable members of our city staff that understands what this council really feel strongly about and, and then the last piece I know that I want you know what bothers me right now even with this being in limbo is we still have programs going around and we see food trucks coming to method anyway, they're doing it anyway. and without permits and there's no, you don't see any fight from anybody just letting it happen. So I just want to make sure that moving forward that doesn't happen anymore we have a policing system in place that if we do allow this, that If it's not a city event, and if they see a food truck that wasn't issued a permit, then they're there to leave the premises immediately. And the police should be notified because that's breaking the law. So I know these are the my issues that I have I think that. For me it hasn't changed. I think that Zach brings up a good compromise I think that we can look at doing something where it's more streamlined I agree with that, having a group have an emergency I put a program together we don't meet now for every two weeks now, and not have an avenue to vote that in, I think that's that's a problem but whether it's someone from Victor's office and, you know, someone from the, you know, maybe it's a collaboration with someone from the business community and someone from Victor's office that can work together when there's a food truck, maybe it's a internal committee that approves these food trucks, you know, for permitting. So it's not this council, but it's the people that affected directly. So again, a little winded, but I know this isn't a heavy lift. I think it could be worked out on all levels, but I just made sure that I said my piece. So thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: And just to your point, it does reference in the draft we're looking at that was sent around that licenses shall not be permitted to operate within 200 feet of a person or entity holding a current common vitriol license without the express permission of such vitriol, so it goes on like that.

[Richard Caraviello]: Thank you for the clarification.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. Councilor Caraviello.

[Richard Caraviello]: Thank you, Madam President. I think we're overthinking this a little bit. I mean, for the small amount of food trucks that come before this council, I think we may be going a little crazy this time. I mean, we're gonna drop another ordinance and tax the Board of Health, which is already a department that is working at more than capacity. And again, what did we do about maybe 10 or 12 trucks last year, if we even did that many? And half the trucks that we approved never even showed up to events. So I just think we're overthinking this for the small amount of times that these people come in. And like Councilor Scarpelli says, I've been to events where there's trucks there, and I'm saying, I didn't vote for these trucks. Should I go and call the Board of Health and make them come down there and kick them out of the event that they're there at? I don't wanna do that. You know, these events are held on the weekend, and they say, our border health is already overworked as it is, you know, to have them having people come out on weekends, certainly isn't fair to them, or fair to anybody else. And I said, you know, as far as a permanent food truck, we really have nowhere in the city to park a food truck on a regular basis. So I think we're just creating an audience that doesn't need to be created at this particular time. For the few that come down every now and then, I think the way we're doing it is fine.

[Nicole Morell]: Councilor Collins.

[Kit Collins]: Thank you, President Morell. Yeah, I agree with a lot of what I've heard from my fellow councilors so far. And I'm glad that we're starting this discussion now. I think that You know, I think that there's sort of short-term and long-term goals that we can be thinking about at the same time. I think that it sounds like, and I know a lot of this predates my tenure on the Council, I think that there's parts of the process for the one-day food truck permits that it sounds like could just be streamlined and improved, and that sounds great. There's a lot in this draft ordinance that looks fine to me, that, like Vice President Bears said, I'm not married to it. I think it's great as a jumping-off point, but I don't think that creating a regulatory system for food trucks is so, so urgent that we need to pass this ordinance in the next two weeks, especially since, as Councilor Caraviello mentioned, this would add to the already very large workload of the Board of Health. I think it would be great to have a longer conversation with them about Some points that the that this draft ordinance already makes and I have a bunch of clarifying questions that you know I could raise tonight or I could raise next month and I think we'll go into the process of clarifying what the application process will look like both for the city and for potential vendors. So I think that. taking our time to make sure this is correct, makes sense, but at the same time, even though we don't have a lot of food truck applications right now, just in general, I like the idea of setting up application and regulatory processes that are maybe not on fire urgent right this minute, but we will need in five or 10 years. We have a lot of development ideas going on right now where constantly trying to work on redevelopment and revitalization ideas for Medford Square, there's a lot of proposed ideas for the Mystic Valley corridor right now. I can see a shorter midterm future where having a very organized process for food trucks will be very, very useful or could be inconvenient if we don't have one. So I think that taking a proactive approach to this makes a lot of sense. At the same time, I think, or just one last note to make on this. I think that the clause about forbidding food trucks within 200 feet of an established brick and mortar business without their express permission is a great sort of starter bulwark against a negative sort of competition. I'm a big believer in a rising tide lifting all boats. you know, the sort of the overall project of how can we get, how can we enlarge the customer base in Medford overall? How can we not have businesses be in competition with each other, but rather just a bigger population overall that's patronizing our entire business base? That is such a comprehensive project that has got to be a really top-down, really grassroots project at the same time. And so I'd really like for this ordinance to help that. to help that process. And at the same time, I just wanna note that that also involves planning, that involves top-down planning from the administration side as well to get to that place where we don't have to worry as much about our small businesses that are established and have been here for such a long time, feeding into the community and newer arrivals being in competition. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Collins. Any additional, Councilor Tseng.

[Justin Tseng]: Thank you, President Merle, um, I from from what I hear, um, I agree with the bulk of what's been said by my fellow Councilors. Um, it seems like there is an appetite. from vendors, from businesses, from the city, for us to act on one day permits or special event permits. And I think it is a reasonable, Councilor Bears makes a reasonable point to perhaps act on that and to have a longer conversation about food trucks in general. That's more, I guess, done with a longer, longer range vision as Councilor columns has said, especially as we continue to, to develop the mystic Valley corridor to the mystic have corridors. I have faith in Victor's office and the Board of Health to do the right thing to know more about the process and to know more about what regulations we need. And I think that it's important to place that trust in their offices. And I just want to hear more from them at this meeting and at future meetings about what an ordinance like this should look like, especially as we have some time to move on it now, and we should really act, you know, because government legislation does take a longer time, it makes sense to start the conversation now. But all in all, I think it seems like there's some consensus on one day and special event permits. And that seems like something that we can move forward with now. And then it seems like there might be some appetite to have a longer discussion about the rest of it. But I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Councilor Tseng. Any further comments or discussion from the council at this time? Councilor Caraviello?

[Richard Caraviello]: Madam President, so who's going to draft this ordinance?

[Nicole Morell]: That's a challenge.

[Richard Caraviello]: So we don't, so that's my problem is we're going to have, we're going to have a law firm who has no vested interest in this community and knows nothing about the community, drafting an ordinance that's probably good for Boston or maybe good for Cambridge, some other city, but doesn't know if it's good for Medford. So that's, I have a little, I have a little doubt. and the people that are going to craft this. I mean, we can put our own spin on the way we want, but you know, until we get our own, the city gets its own attorney that has a vested interest in this community. I kind of a little, I have a little bit of lost faith in the KP law group doing that.

[Nicole Morell]: President Bears.

[Richard Caraviello]: A little. Maybe a lot. I was being kind. I was being kind.

[Zac Bears]: Yeah, I know and I hear that. I'd like to hear from from Victor and from the chamber as well. But my thoughts on that specifically are that maybe we should actually send this for comments by the economic development director and the health director, and then maybe we also send it to a subcommittee, and then that would give us some time. We were promised that an assistant city solicitor would be hired, whether or not that promise will be fulfilled remains what information and all the respect.

[Richard Caraviello]: We're looking to hire an assistant city solicitor. You need to hire a city.

[Zac Bears]: I'm right there with you. I'm just saying it would be a way for us to get some comments back and put it in subcommittee and then have that subcommittee meeting in two, three, however many months it's going to take for us to get the legal support that right. And that's what I'm saying. You know, we could at least make some, a step of progress tonight, get some feedback from the folks who we do know, you know, from the health department and economic development. And then in a few weeks or months, we'll see where we are with the legal support. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Yeah, and I will say part of the scheduling of some of these committee meetings are based on the availability of staff and based on do we need legal counsel or not and seeing what we can get through with feedback from staff and how far we can move stuff along until we actually get that counsel. So I understand this may not be the most pressing of issues, but it's what we can move forward with, with what we have at the time. And I do want to reference just the draft that we're looking at. Again, not that anyone's married to this draft. It was written by former city solicitor Mark Rumley. So it was written by someone vested in Medford. So something to work off of. But I do want to go to the staff that expressed interest in this. So Victor Schrader, I'll go to you first, because I know you expressed an interest in this ordinance and process. Just name and address for the record, please. Do we have someone in the booth or no? Okay, so it should come on, it'll come on. Just give it a, there you go.

[Victor Schrader]: Good evening, councilors, Victor Schrader, City Hall, and thank you for having me this evening. We have put some thought into this, and I'm glad that Marianne O'Connor is on the Zoom call as well this evening. The ordinance that we're all discussing mentions her far more often than it mentions me, so I'm really glad she's here. To Councilor Caraviello's point, we're not seeing a huge demand and we're quickly coming into the fall and winter months here. So I do agree that I think we have some time, there may be one or two more requests that come in this year. The way we've been managing these requests is they've been coming to the Office of Planning, Development, Sustainability, and we've been processing them through the mayor's office, which formally sends them to you for consideration. I think the benefit of having an ordinance is to establish some consistency in the process. If in the future there is more demand, we can point someone to a consistent process. It also could, and I think this ordinance does a pretty good job of outlining some requirements that we want the food trucks to follow. So there are things that come up, you know, in citing one specific example, you know, should we allow folks to have tables and chairs set up around the food truck? There's just little things like that that we can all agree on, then the community knows what to expect when food trucks are in the community. So, you know, there is some benefit to the ordinance in beyond what what our current practice procedures are, but not a huge sense of urgency from our standpoint. You know, we talked a little bit about streamlining the process. We thought about that. There's some things in this draft that I think we'd wanna provide feedback on in terms of the steps that are required for approval. If it does come to city departments to approve these, there's one section that requires boards and commissions to weigh in. You know, maybe that's necessary in some circumstances, but it would definitely, cause for a longer process than we even have have today, potentially if the boards and commissions are required to be a part of it. We would be more than happy to provide comment on this have some ideas. I know that the Chamber of Commerce has put a lot of thought into this as well how it would impact the folks on the streets. Love to hear from them this evening. For my standpoint. I think food trucks to have a benefit from an economic development perspective. There it's important that we are prioritizing are brick and mortar establishments they certainly have a higher overhead. They're providing a lot of both financial and other types of support to our residents. So we wanna prioritize them. There are communities that run specific programs to help with business incubation and the use of food trucks. So if that's something we wanna discuss in the future, I think there could be value to that, but we would wanna set up a really well thought out program in order for that to run smoothly. I'll limit my comments to that and allow others to speak, but happy to answer any further questions that you have.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. I will move on to Director O'Connor. I don't know if you wanted to offer any feedback at this time or just save comments for a future date. I will unmute you.

[MaryAnn O'Connor]: Great, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, no, I think this ordinance certainly has some value. I would like for the clarification if we are going to obviously, you know, offer a annual permit as to, you know, location specific and without where that would be. I mean typically right now. What we're, you know what we do is the one day special event permits after they have received approval from the council. But again, you know, is it municipal property is a private property, typically on private property. As long as they pass what we're interested in is food safety, right, so as long as they pass the food code, and are able to. you know present to us that their plan that they're going to have the facilities they need the hand washing. Obviously the fire department has to be involved because of the propane but. So we do require specific approval from other city departments as well. But we're just doing the one day special event permits, typically after they're approved by the council. Um, anything further, I think, would require more clarification as to, you know, timelines, how many days, restricted areas, you know, where are they allowed? Um, I think that would require further, further review, so.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Marianne. Um, any questions for Director O'Connor? I'm curious how much I mean looking at this draft or I don't know if you have the draft in front of you, or not but just looking at it with that significantly. And again, this is a draft, it will likely change with that significantly change the amount of time your office is spending on these permits as they come in in their current form, versus how they come in through this ordinance.

[MaryAnn O'Connor]: It will again it will cost attorney scams on attorney Scanlon had sent this to us a month or two ago and asked for input so we do have comments already that we have submitted to her so that I can forward them to you. You know, again, it would depend on the requirements as far as would it be the Board of Health making the determination as to where and when how long these trucks can be, you know, or is it. We're just looking at the food safety item and who's making the call as to where the lot where, where are they allowed to actually set up for how many days is there a restriction on like I don't know, 30 days a year or five days a week, like that, those types of things I think would need to be talked about. And then again, the locations as to where they would be allowed and where they wouldn't be allowed. And it's strictly, is it municipal properties, is it streets only or, and private properties or they can do it, you know, what they want. So there's some details there that I think we need to figure out who's responsibility, who would be making those decisions.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. And then we also do have economic development direct planner on the call that I wanted to give you an opportunity if you wanted to offer any comments.

[t15sh-lyws8_SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Uh, not many comments, but just to To Marianne's point, we do have, I think other. Their city department staff, for example, parking department are traffic and transportation staff that would, uh, probably also do all to be included in any evaluation process that is established. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank And then we have a number of members from the chamber here we have a few online some in person. So, whoever would like to speak first one for the mic. name and address for the record.

[Maury Carroll]: Good evening, Mario 31 registry Medford president of the chamber. position on the food trucks is it's paramount to protect the brick and mortar businesses. The way Medford's laid out with this different business districts, we're scattered throughout the city as everyone is well aware. And to even use a number of 200 feet. That's nothing, that's a stone's throw. I mean, I'm gonna suggest 600 feet from the borders or a radius around the business districts, because these food trucks, they don't have the impact on the community that the community expects brick and mortars to have. They're constantly being hit up for fundraisers, donations, support this group, support that group. These guys come in town, they're in town for one or two days, They make their money and run. And as George said, he's 300% correct. There's no even regulations of what they're doing as far as price wise. And we're all held to prices based on our menus or whatever the case may be. They can do whatever they feel. They're in and out. To me, food trucks belong at special event venues. They belong like if you had to like West Bedford does up at the Duggar Park or down in certain areas like up in Carr Park had a nice event up there for Jimmy Maderano this weekend. But you know there's Jim's Market. They do a lot of business in the city and so forth. You want a food truck to go next door to them who's there servicing the city 365 days a year. So I think there has to be An awful lot of thought put into this. You just can't say, all right, let's do this. And one day license, where are they going to go? You've got to take into consideration all the people that invest their time, their money into trying to make a living and supporting other families in this city through the staff that they employ, as well as what they give back to the community. You do not get that from a food truck. So, you know, you've got to really, really be careful of how you word this and what you do. I know Steve Pompeo said Dominic CSD spent a lot of time, and I'm sure he might have a few words to say. So that's all I have to say right now. Thanks for listening.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. Mr. Pompeo, would you like to speak? Got it. Okay, great. Same address for the record, please.

[Steven Pompeo]: Yes, thank you. Steven Pompeo, 18 Newton Road. I'm here on behalf of the Medford Chamber of Commerce. And first I want to say, I think what we're hearing is right on track. Councilor Bears came right out with it. And I think it makes sense that when we do address this, that we separate the special event and one day events from longer term licenses and address them separately because they are two totally different animals. So we should address those separately and we could address them uh, in the same process, uh, that way we address the, uh, snow removal ordinance, uh, whereby we basically went, we could, we already have an ordinance here. Um, we could go line by line at some point with, with that ordinance and a subcommittee and modify it until, um, until it's something that becomes, um, acceptable. But I think in the short term, um, the special event and one day event licenses, and I, I agree with Councilor Scarpelli in coming up with a process to streamline that for them. But other than that, the one day event and the special events really aren't the big issue. The big issue will be when we address how to handle anything other than a one day event and a special event. So if we can streamline it for those, that'll be great. I think in terms of the ordinance itself, I don't think, you know, we necessarily need to wait till we have a new city solicitor. I mean, the draft ordinance we have now was drafted by a city solicitor six years ago. It's now been in front of the council for the third time and has had zero support because it's worded in such a way that it would be extremely detrimental. So I'm not sure we need to wait to get a local city solicitor. I think if we have a working group and work with his current ordinance and then can present it to legal counsel in the end for making it officially legal. But I don't think we need to start with legal counsel to give us guidance on what the city should be doing with food trucks. I think that's better with the city council and with the business organizations and the people. So, but I do appreciate the opportunity. And just to reiterate, I think, If we go back to Councilor Bears's suggestion and Councilor Scarpelli's, I think we'd be on the right track for now. Thank you.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. Councilor Caraviello.

[Richard Caraviello]: When reading the mobile food vendor, so it's talking about prepared packaged food or beverages. So does the ice cream truck fall into this definition of a food vendor? The guy selling ice creams off a truck. Is he, does he fall into this food vendor category?

[Nicole Morell]: I mean, it's a question. I don't know. I know. I don't, I don't know either. Yeah.

[Victor Schrader]: Councilor, good question. In my research, they're treated separately. I think they're licensed separately.

[Richard Caraviello]: You guys are treated separately?

[Victor Schrader]: Yeah. At the state level, they're licensed separately. And in most communities, they're treated separately. Okay.

[Richard Caraviello]: I know. I didn't know if they classified.

[Victor Schrader]: We may want to make that distinction though, just to be clear.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you. And I think to that point too, I mean, I know this was like a one-off, but in June, we had that person come before us with the mobile coffee cart. So not saying we need to craft a whole ordinance around that, but as we look at definitions, understanding there are these things that kind of exist in this very specific space and how do we want to address them? Sir, Vice President Bears. I was going to see if there's, did you just raise your hand, Marion? Okay. Back to Director O'Connor.

[MaryAnn O'Connor]: Yes, thank you. Yes, Victor's correct. Ice cream trucks are handled separately. And even the food trucks would be handled as far as we're concerned. And there's different types, right? So if they're only offering prepackaged food or if they're actually cooking in the truck and things in between, hot holding, cold holding. So there's different types and it would depend, right? So that's the type of license or permit they would receive if they're actually doing full-blown cooking in the truck with wastewater tank, hand washing, sink required, cold holding, barbecue, whatever they're doing. So those are the different types of licenses that would be required. So pre-packaged only is very different.

[Nicole Morell]: Thank you, Director O'Connor. President Bears.

[Zac Bears]: Thank you, Madam President. I think I'm hearing some general consensus about next steps. and be happy to make a motion to the following. One would be to remove all references to licenses that are not the one day and special events license from the ordinance. So essentially only focus on one day and special events and get an ordinance and a process around that. And then we can have the conversation about other stuff, maybe not even in the context of this current process, leave that for the future just get a better process for one day and special events request review and comments by the planning development sustainability department and the economic development director within that department, the health director, and I know you already have some comments but if if the health director could make those comments, tailor them to the idea that we're only talking about the one day and special events because I think that may help solve some of those questions about the timeline and the five days like we're not going to do that it's just one day and special events and what would the process be. And then one other thing that I heard that I think Councilor Caraviello made a good point on, I do think we should add a section to have a penalty or restriction on future licensing for food trucks that operate without a license in the city. If you're caught operating without a license, I think that should affect whether you can get a license in the future. I don't know what that would look like, but I do think it should have some impact. And that may bring up a little bit more teeth to the issue of what we have now with people just operating without going through any process.

[Nicole Morell]: This is embarrassed to your second motion. I believe planner Neon mentioned adding parking and transportation. That's fine. To also get some feedback from them as well.

[Zac Bears]: That's fine.

[Nicole Morell]: Does that cover all your motions?

[Zac Bears]: I would, that covers, that's one motion. And then I would want to discuss with everyone after, maybe after we vote on that, if we want to refer this to the ordinances and rules subcommittee, but I'll hold that for another motion.

[Nicole Morell]: Mr. Clerk, do you have that language?

[Adam Hurtubise]: So vice president, I need a little clarification on the first part. You want to, do you want to remove references to all events that are not one day events, or do you want to limit it to two events?

[Zac Bears]: I want to limit this to just one day and special event licenses. So references to any licenses other than licenses.

[George Scarpelli]: If I can have council visit to having that as the working group that is also involved is making. I'd like to see maybe the chamber. Yeah, also involved. Yes, in making these decisions because like Mr. Carroll mentioned that maybe 200 isn't enough. only the people that have those businesses understand the impact. And, you know, I had a conversation with the gentleman that came here for the coffee cart and the discussion we had was he owns a brick and mortar business and realizing that even $30 a day from one of the businesses is $150 a week, which is, you know, another six to $700 a month that could affect their bottom line. And he realized that I think that's one of the reasons why he didn't come back to us. So, and I think most vendors understand that. So I think having, if the language read that we have somebody with the, on the chamber working with the community development board and to help move this maybe to the next, you know, even maybe just inviting them to the subcommittee meetings instead of working group, I think that'd be good.

[Zac Bears]: Could we add to the motion? That was an oversight on my part. I just didn't write it down. review and comments by the chamber, and then we'll make sure that the chamber's on future invitations for any discussions. Sorry about that. I would second that. I think that's a good start.

[Nicole Morell]: Mr. Clerk, do you have that? Hang on, hang on.

[Zac Bears]: I always love giving the clerk a three-minute motion.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Add some more. Let me read back what I have, and then you can change it as necessary. Hang on. And this is with the suggested edits from Councilor Scarpelli included. Vice President Bears has moved to limit this to one day events or special events to request review and comments from planning development and sustainability, the parking department, the health director and the chamber of commerce, and adding a section that would have a penalty or restrictions on future licensing for food trucks operating without a license.

[Zac Bears]: Yes, and I would also just add the transportation department.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay, hang on, hang on. Yep. Okay, got it.

[Nicole Morell]: Mr. Clerk, Councilor Knight did drop off, but I assume since you're in a separate room, we still need to roll call vote?

[Adam Hurtubise]: No, as long as the body is in one room, there is not a roll call requirement.

[Nicole Morell]: So on the motion of vice-president Bears, as seconded by councilor Scarpelli, all those in favor? All those opposed? Motion passes.

[Zac Bears]: And if there's no objection, I'd move to refer this to the subcommittee on ordinances and rules.

[Nicole Morell]: Let me just, I didn't ask, is there anyone else from the public who would like to speak on Zoom? I can see everyone in the chamber. Seeing none, okay, back to you vice-president Bears.

[Zac Bears]: I'll just move to refer the papers to the committee on ordinances, subcommittee on ordinances and rules.

[Nicole Morell]: On the motion of Vice President Bears to move the paper to the subcommittee on ordinances and rules as seconded by Councilor Collins. All those in favor?

[Zac Bears]: Aye.

[Nicole Morell]: All those opposed? Motion passes. Any further discussion or comments?

[Steven Pompeo]: Motion to adjourn.

[Nicole Morell]: On a motion of Councilor Scarpelli to adjourn, seconded by Councilor Tseng. All those in favor? Aye. All those opposed? Motion passes. The meeting is adjourned.